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Thread: 2002 Best of Baseball election thread

  1. #21
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    There's one voter from last election yet to vote this time: TheMendozaLine. If he hasn't voted by Monday, I'll PM him.

    Next election has Jim Kaat and Pete Palmer as the new additions to the contributor list. As for the players, they add:

    Boggs , Wade
    Gaetti , Gary
    Henderson , Dave
    Hershiser , Orel
    Hurst , Bruce
    Righetti , Dave
    Trammell , Alan
    Boggs and Trammell are strong candidates.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  2. #22
    Players:

    1. Lou Brock
    2. Jake Beckley
    3. Masaaki Koyama
    4. Tony Mullane
    5. Jimmy Sheckard
    6. Rick Reuschel
    7. Ray Dandridge
    8. Lou Whitaker
    9. Quincy Trouppe
    10. Bill Freehan
    11. Dwight Evans
    12. Luis Aparicio

    Contributors:

    1. Harry Caray
    2. Bob Ferguson
    3. David Neft
    4. Bob Uecker
    5. Al Munro Elias

  3. #23
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    Now we have a quorum on both sides of the ballot and everyone who voted last election has voted in this one.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  4. #24
    Captain Cold Nose...No Lou Whitaker on your ballot?

    jjpm74 - Thanks for your response on Brock. Brock has received first place votes from Dogdaze, PVNICK, and TheMendozaLine...since I can't seem to find the reasoning, can you guys give me some insight as to why you find Lou to be the best player available. As I mentioned to jjpm74, maybe I'm missing the boat on Brock?
    Last edited by Jar of Flies; 07-10-2011 at 02:31 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jar of Flies View Post
    Captain Cold Nose...No Lou Whitaker on your ballot?

    jjpm74 - Thanks for your response on Brock. Brock has received first place votes from Dogdaze, PVNICK, and TheMendozaLine...since I can't seem to find the reasoning, can you guys give me some insight as to why you find Lou to be the best player available. As I mentioned to jjpm74, maybe I'm missing the boat on Brock?
    Not yet. Maybe because I followed him so closely for his entire career I don't see what others seem to.
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  6. #26
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    on Brock the crop available are all the C list players at their positions. Admittedly I first put Brock up on the 3000 hits, SB thing reasoning that such "status" puts him ahead of other similarly classed players, since then I haven't gone and done a re-shufflle.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
    Not yet. Maybe because I followed him so closely for his entire career I don't see what others seem to.
    For me, Whitaker is #1 on my ballot but only because a) the incumbents are near the grey area and b) there are no stronger candidates available this year. He was a 2B who had a fairly long career, logged in a 116 OPS+ with a good balance between on-base and power, and as far as I know had a better-than-advertized glove. He was a member of one of the most famous double-play duos in recent history. This kind of stuff puts him at least in Billy Herman territory.

  8. #28
    With the list being where it is and the vast majority of the elite players already in, the "C" list players are making headway. Brock's 3000 hits and SB's as well as an almost .300 average and close to 500 doubles has him in it for me. His WAR is pretty awful for a HOF'er, admittedly, but I think he deserves to be in. I imagine he was a lot of fun to watch when he was stealing all those bases.

  9. #29
    PV NICK from post 26
    on Brock the crop available are all the C list players at their positions. Admittedly I first put Brock up on the 3000 hits, SB thing reasoning that such "status" puts him ahead of other similarly classed players, since then I haven't gone and done a re-shufflle.
    TheMendozaLine from post 28
    With the list being where it is and the vast majority of the elite players already in, the "C" list players are making headway. Brock's 3000 hits and SB's as well as an almost .300 average and close to 500 doubles has him in it for me. His WAR is pretty awful for a HOF'er, admittedly, but I think he deserves to be in. I imagine he was a lot of fun to watch when he was stealing all those bases.
    The arguments for all-time hits and stolen bases make sense, but he's not a dominant force on doubles
    2B's eligible leaders:
    Al Oliver - 529
    Dave Parker - 526
    Tony Perez - 505
    Andre Dawson - 503
    Rusty Staub - 499
    Bill Buckner - 498
    Sam Rice - 498...
    Lou Brock - 486

    If I were to use a stat compiling stat to measure a players worth, I would locate times on base before hits.

    Eligible leaders in times on base (PA/wOBA - weight on base %): NOTE, if the schedule was at 154 or 162 games, Jake Beckley may lead or be near the top of TOB list...I am considering him for a ballot placement in 2003:

    Rusty Staub 4050 (11229/362)
    Dwight Evans 3890 (10569/374)
    Darrell Evans 3863 (10737/354)
    Lou Brock 3833 (11235/346)
    Sam Rice 3751 (10246/374)
    Jake Beckley 3733 (10504/371)

    Another intriguing stat are outs made:
    Luis Aparicio 8110 (11230/302!)
    Lou Brock 7823 (11235/346)
    Andre Dawson 7621 (10769/352)
    Rusty Staub 7509 (11229/362)
    Tony Perez 7462 (10861/356)

    And one more counting stat: Runs Created
    Dwight Evans 1612 (10569/374)
    Rusty Staub 1533 (11229/362)
    Tony Perez 1524 (10861/356)
    Andre Dawson 1518 (10769/352)
    Lou Brock 1512 (11235/346)
    Darrell Evans 1499 (10737/354)
    Jake Beckley 1465 (10504/371)

    In the Caught Stealing era, 20 players have tabulated 500 or more thefts, Lou Brock's stolen base % of 75.3% ranks 17th out of 20. Players with >80% and <76%. SB in ()
    Tim Raines (808) - 84.70%
    Willie Wilson (668) - 83.29%
    Davey Lopes (557) - 83.01%
    Joe Morgan (689) - 80.96%
    Vince Coleman (752) - 80.94%
    Ty Cobb (897) - 80.88%
    Rickey Henderson (1406) - 80.76%

    Brett Butler (558) - 68.47%!
    Maury Wills (586) - 73.80%
    Juan Pierre (540) - 74.69%
    Lou Brock (938) - 75.34%
    Cesar Cedeno (550) - 75.44%
    Last edited by Jar of Flies; 07-16-2011 at 10:51 AM.

  10. #30
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    This election is closed. We had our usual 11 player ballots and 10 contributor ballots and inducted players Perucho Cepeda, Masaaki Koyama, and Lou Whitaker along with contributor Bob Ferguson. The official results follow, players first.

    Code:
    Players………………..	votes	pts
    Whitaker, Lou	10	99
    Cepeda, Perucho	7	59
    Koyama, Masaaki	7	59
    Brock, Lou	6	57
    Reuschel, Rick	7	48
    Freehan, Bill	9	41
    Aparicio, Luis	6	39
    Evans, Dwight	7	38
    Dawson, Andre	7	37
    Smith, Reggie	7	36
    Rixey , Eppa	4	34
    Beckley , Jake	4	32
    Grimes , B	3	26
    Sheckard , J	4	26
    Trouppe, Quincy	6	26
    Bando, Sal	4	25
    Berger , Wally	3	20
    Shocker, Urban	3	17
    Childs , Cupid	2	15
    Dandridge, Ray	3	10
    Howard, Frank	1	10
    Mullane , Tony	2	10
    Sewell , Joe	1	10
    Cepeda, Orlando	1	9
    Fingers, Rollie	1	9
    Gomez, Lefty	1	9
    Lundy , Dick	1	8
    McVey , Cal	1	8
    Pierce, Billy	3	8
    Evans, Darrell	1	7
    Duffy , Hugh	2	5
    Perez, Tony	2	5
    Leach , Tommy	1	4
    Nettles, Graig	1	3
    Newcombe, Don	1	3
    Evers, Johnny	1	2
    Murphy, Dale	1	2
    Stieb, Dave	1	2
    Now the contributors:
    Code:
    Contributor………	votes	pts
    Ferguson, Bob	8	24
    Caylor , O. P.	4	18
    Elias, Al Munro	7	18
    Abe, Iso	5	17
    Evans, Billy	4	14
    Neft, David	6	13
    Caray, Harry	1	5
    Jobe, Frank	1	5
    Pesky, Johnny	1	5
    Martin, Billy	1	4
    O'Doul, Lefty	1	4
    Smith, Red	1	4
    Steinbrenner, G	3	4
    Harris , Bucky	1	3
    Harvey, Doug	1	3
    Howsam, Bob	1	2
    McCarthy, Tommy	1	2
    Mizuhara, S	1	2
    Uecker, Bob	1	2
    Harwell, Ernie	1	1
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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