This is our sixty-eighth election in this project. The entire rules follow.
This election will end at 11:59:59 PM EDT on July 29, 2011
The prior election, and the ballots of the 2002 voters, are in this thread
Researcher/advocate/mod
This is our sixty-eighth election in this project. The entire rules follow.
This election will end at 11:59:59 PM EDT on July 29, 2011
The prior election, and the ballots of the 2002 voters, are in this thread
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Rules
1) All BBF users in good standing may participate. However, if there is more than one vote being cast from any one computer or IP, it must be cleared in advance. Should there be unannounced multiple votes from the same IP, I will investigate the circumstances, and all user names involved may be barred from this project as a result, and all but one of the multiple usernames permanently banned from the site. I only anticipate exceptions for family members living in the same home, but I will entertain requests on other bases. Please note that I and the other mods who participate in the project have the capability of determining the IP from which posts come, and I for one intend to monitor same. I have had to deal with a single user manipulating a project with multiple votes, and I don't intend to repeat the experience.
2) Elections will require a 10 voter quorum. If we do not get ten voters and there are candidate(s) who would be elected no matter what the voters needed to make a quorum did, those candidate(s) will be inducted. Otherwise, no one will be inducted. Further, if we fail to elect a full complement of candidates for the ballot in question in two of any four consecutive elections, the portion(s) of the project failing to meet the election requirement will end. If, for instance, we're doing fine on the player end but not the contributor end, I would drop the contributor end under this rule.
3) We will start in 1936, just as Cooperstown did. For the first election (1936), voters will rank their top 20, taking 10. After that we will go to having voters rank their top 12 players. Points awarded 12-11-10, etc. We will take the top five through 1940, then top three players per year elected until 2010, then two per year. If a voter does not number his selections, I will try to get him/her to do so. If they do not do so before the end of the election period, I may in my sole discretion invalidate the ballot. I have included this provision in order to ease the process of recording the votes. On another point, I know, the 1936 backlog is huge--but that was a historical issue they couldn't avoid, so neither will we.
4) We will also have a contributor ballot, which will elect one a year through 1985, then one every three (3) years. Contributors will be ranked 1 through 5, with points awarded 5-4-3-2-1. Voters may choose to participate in either one of the ballots or both.
5) It is permissible to vote for a candidate on both the contributor and player lists.
6) You are allowed to change your ballot at any time the voting is open. However, if you change your ballot, you've got to notify me (jalbright) by PM or by a new post in the voting thread, or the changes likely will not be registered.
7) Players are eligible at the later of age 45 or the first year thereafter in which the player does not play. If the birthdate is not known, add five years to the first time the player misses a season and has less than 10 games the next season. There is an exception for early death, in which case the year of death plus two will be used if that yields an earlier date.
8) Contributors become eligible at age 65 or in the year of death plus two. whichever comes first.
9) Each election will run for approximately two weeks unless expressly altered by the project manager, contributors and players done simultaneously.
10) No one is excluded from being a candidate, regardless of the league they played in, except those elected in either the contributor or player ballots. At that point, they are removed from further consideration. If there are players who returned to the Negro Leagues or Japan after going to the majors, the departure from the majors will be their career end date for purposes of this project.
11) The standard for including a player on one's ballot is that the player must in the voter's opinion be among the very best eligible players (preferably the number voted on, but if a voter wishes to support someone they feel is 15th in a 12 person ballot instead of one of the top 12, it's too close for anyone to reasonably object. On the other hand, supporting the 25th best eligible candidate on a 12 person ballot is probably beyond the pale). I reserve the power to invalidate ballots which I do not feel are a reasonably knowledgeable, good faith effort to rank the players. One issue I am quite concerned about is that I do not want to see what clearly appear to be attempts to manipulate the ballot so as to elect a candidate. In isolation, I probably could live with this, but if it became a widely used tactic, the project would devolve into something I have no desire to be associated with. Moreover, I think that this position asks everyone else to cast legitimate votes so that you can manipulate the system to favor your pet candidates. I cannot accept that, as it strikes me as unfair to other voters. For example, you can't expect to favor even a legitimate HOF candidate like Bill Dahlen over Babe Ruth to get Dahlen elected without being asked to provide a reasonable justification for ranking Dahlen over Ruth. If you can provide a reasonable justification in that scenario, the ballot will stand. If not, you will be asked to make a change. I realize voters will sometimes have idiosyncratic choices, and I try to allow for that. However, a clear flouting of a consensus is apt to be met with a request that the ballot be justified pursuant to this rule. Certainly, a reasonable justification does not indicate in essence simply that you want Dahlen elected. Furthermore, if I invalidate multiple ballots by the same individual as failing to meet this rule, that individual will forever lose the right to have his/her ballots counted. Voters are encouraged to consider character, sportsmanship, and compliance with the rules and spirit of baseball in their rankings of players.
12) I will post lists of eligible players and contributors before each election. If you have a question about the eligibility of a candidate, please ask. I will provide a list of future eligibility dates as well.
13) My eligibility lists come from all persons in the BBF HOF, BBTF Hall of Merit, and Cooperstown, plus all persons getting a vote in a BBF HOF election in the past year and a half or in a BBWAA election. This is a relatively comprehensive list, and thus I must request that if you want another candidate included, you provide some justification for why said candidate is worthy of getting a vote in this project. The main area I think this might come into play is if a voter supports a person who was eligible for the final selections from the recent pre WWII or Negro League committees but not on my master list. That fact alone would serve as ample justification for putting said candidate on the list. We may learn more about Cuban ball or what have you and thus include others after a case is made for them, however. The contributor list is undoubtedly not as comprehensive, and this fact will be taken into consideration. For players, any request for a multiple time all-star in the all-star era will be approved. Players of that quality will generally be approved without much ado. However, when a player lacks that kind of qualification, I will likely ask for you to get a second from among our voters via a post in the current election thread. When in doubt, I will also require a second for suggested contributors. If a second is forthcoming, the player will be added. If not, the request will be rejected. I want to limit requests and seconds to players or contributors you actually might vote for.
14) Other than the sportsmanship and character issues, players are to be evaluated solely upon their play. I would prefer that if a player is qualified by his play standing alone that he be elected on that basis. However, a candidate may only be elected either as a contributor or a player, but not both. Contributors are the area where the entire body of work during his career in the sport, including his play, managing, scouting, executive, writing, broadcasting or other work in the sport is relevant. Contributors are to be ranked based on who the voter thinks is most worthy of induction into the Contributor group in this project.
15) Any ballot with two (2) or more spots unfilled with eligible candidates is invalid. In the event of the listing of ineligible names, I will try to notify the voter so that he/she can correct the ballot before the end of the voting period. If the change is made timely, it will count. If not, and there are two or more invalid names, the ballot will not be considered valid. If there is only one, the ineligible name will be stricken and all names after it on the affected ballot will be moved up one spot.
16) Any players listed beyond the 12th place for any ballot but the first (in which case it is 20th place) will be ignored. If more than one person is listed as tied for the last available place and the ballot is oversize, all names will be dropped, which may lead to the invalidation of the ballot.
17) Ties are not permitted in ballot listings. I reserve the right to invalidate ballots for use of ties in the rankings, be it within a single ballot or over the course of several ballots. If the voter does not correct such a listing voluntarily, except in the case of an oversize ballot tie for the last eligible place, if do not invalidate the ballot, I will choose the placement of the two "tied" candidates, generally preferring the candidate preferred by the other voters.
18) For any ties between candidates straddling the in/out line of selections, the first thing considered is the ranking of the candidates by the ballots cast. If there are more than two candidates tied, use a 2-1-0 or whatever is appropriate for the number of players tied system. If a voter does not list a candidate, he receives zero points in the tiebreaker procedure. Once one person separates from the tied group, restart with the remaining candidates until there are only as many candidates as the rules call for being elected. If they remain tied after this process, the candidate with the most votes received wins. If it is still tied after that, those with the most #1 votes as the next step, then the most #2 votes and so on to see if that breaks the tie. If not, we will induct all candidates who remain tied at that point.
19) One thing we're going to have to be aware of is the timeline in the case of at least a few contributors. Two which jump out at me are Buck O'Neill, 1976, and Branch Rickey, 1946. I intend to eventually vote for both men, but in 1946, Jackie Robinson was still in Montreal. Really, Branch should wait until at least 1947 after Jackie's success in the majors to get credit for that move. If you think Rickey belongs in the top 5 in 1946 without his role in breaking the color line, that's fine--but he shouldn't get credit for that important success until it actually happened. Buck O'Neill did some important things up until 1976, but after that he was in Ken Burns' Baseball and he was instrumental in the establishment of the Negro Leagues Hall of Fame (both occurred in or around 1994). If you think he belongs based on accomplishments before those two things, that's perfectly acceptable, but please don't credit him with them before they actually happened.
20) I will maintain a thread of the project's history and rules which will provide a listing of all elected candidates.
21) Feel free to ask questions by either sending jalbright a PM, or by posting a question in voting thread
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The players who become eligible in 2003 are:
The contributors who becomes eligible in 2002 are:Code:Boggs , Wade Gaetti , Gary Henderson , Dave Hershiser , Orel Hurst , Bruce Righetti , Dave Trammell , Alan
Code:Kaat , Jim Palmer , Pete
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The 2002 player candidates who were not elected had these results in that election:
The 2002 contributor candidates who were not elected had these results in that election:Code:Players……………….. votes pts Brock, Lou 6 57 Reuschel, Rick 7 48 Freehan, Bill 9 41 Aparicio, Luis 6 39 Evans, Dwight 7 38 Dawson, Andre 7 37 Smith, Reggie 7 36 Rixey , Eppa 4 34 Beckley , Jake 4 32 Grimes , B 3 26 Sheckard , J 4 26 Trouppe, Quincy 6 26 Bando, Sal 4 25 Berger , Wally 3 20 Shocker, Urban 3 17 Childs , Cupid 2 15 Dandridge, Ray 3 10 Howard, Frank 1 10 Mullane , Tony 2 10 Sewell , Joe 1 10 Cepeda, Orlando 1 9 Fingers, Rollie 1 9 Gomez, Lefty 1 9 Lundy , Dick 1 8 McVey , Cal 1 8 Pierce, Billy 3 8 Evans, Darrell 1 7 Duffy , Hugh 2 5 Perez, Tony 2 5 Leach , Tommy 1 4 Nettles, Graig 1 3 Newcombe, Don 1 3 Evers, Johnny 1 2 Murphy, Dale 1 2 Stieb, Dave 1 2
I strongly suggest that you pay attention to this list, as the leaders of the holdovers are likely to join any strong newcomer candidates as the leaders for winning induction.Code:Contributor……… votes pts Caylor , O. P. 4 18 Elias, Al Munro 7 18 Abe, Iso 5 17 Evans, Billy 4 14 Neft, David 6 13 Caray, Harry 1 5 Jobe, Frank 1 5 Pesky, Johnny 1 5 Martin, Billy 1 4 O'Doul, Lefty 1 4 Smith, Red 1 4 Steinbrenner, G 3 4 Harris , Bucky 1 3 Harvey, Doug 1 3 Howsam, Bob 1 2 McCarthy, Tommy 1 2 Mizuhara, S 1 2 Uecker, Bob 1 2 Harwell, Ernie 1 1
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Members of the Best of Baseball Hall. Last election's inductees are in red.
Players
ContributorsCode:Hank Aaron Pete Alexander Dick Allen Cap Anson Luke Appling Richie Ashburn Earl Averill Frank Baker Ernie Banks Ross Barnes John Beckwith Cool Papa Bell Johnny Bench Charlie Bennett Yogi Berra Akira Bessho Bert Blyleven Lou Boudreau Ken Boyer Roger Bresnahan George Brett Dan Brouthers Mordecai Brown Ray Brown Willard Brown Jim Bunning Jesse Burkett Roy Campanella Rod Carew Max Carey Gary Carter Steve Carlton Bob Caruthers Perucho Cepeda Oscar Charleston Fred Clarke John Clarkson Roberto Clemente Ty Cobb Mickey Cochrane Eddie Collins Jimmy Collins Roger Connor Stan Coveleski Sam Crawford Joe Cronin Bill Dahlen George Davis Dizzy Dean Ed Delahanty Bill Dickey Martin Dihigo Joe DiMaggio Larry Doby Bobby Doerr Don Drysdale Dennis Eckersley Buck Ewing Red Faber Bob Feller Wes Ferrell Carlton Fisk Elmer Flick Whitey Ford Willie Foster Nellie Fox Jimmie Foxx Frankie Frisch Pud Galvin Lou Gehrig Charlie Gehringer Bob Gibson Josh Gibson Jack Glasscock Joe Gordon George Gore Goose Goslin Goose Gossage Frank Grant Hank Greenberg Bobby Grich Heinie Groh Lefty Grove Stan Hack Billy Hamilton Isao Harimoto Gabby Hartnett Harry Heilmann Billy Herman Keith Hernandez Pete Hill Paul Hines Rogers Hornsby Carl Hubbell Kazuhisa Inao Monte Irvin Joe Jackson Reggie Jackson Ferguson Jenkins Hughie Jennings Grant "Home Run"Johnson Walter Johnson Addie Joss Al Kaline Masaichi Kaneda Tim Keefe Willie Keeler Charlie Keller Joe Kelley King Kelly Harmon Killebrew Ralph Kiner Sandy Koufax Masaaki Koyama Nap LaJoie Bob Lemon Buck Leonard Pop Lloyd Ted Lyons Biz Mackey Sherry Magee Mickey Mantle Juan Marichal Eddie Mathews Christy Mathewson Willie Mays Willie McCovey Joe McGinnity Bid McPhee Joe Medwick Jose Mendez Minnie Minoso Johnny Mize Paul Molitor Dobie Moore Joe Morgan Eddie Murray Stan Musial Shigeo Nagashima Hal Newhouser Kid Nichols Phil Niekro Katsuya Nomura Hiromitsu Ochiai Sadaharu Oh Alejandro Oms Jim O'Rourke Mel Ott Satchel Paige Jim Palmer Gaylord Perry Eddie Plank Charlie Radbourn Pee Wee Reese Robin Roberts Brooks Robinson Frank Robinson Jackie Robinson Bullet Joe Rogan Pete Rose Edd Roush Red Ruffing Amos Rusie Babe Ruth Nolan Ryan Ron Santo Louis Santop Mike Schmidt Tom Seaver Al Simmons Ted Simmons George Sisler Enos Slaughter Hilton Smith Ozzie Smith Duke Snider Warren Spahn Tris Speaker Victor Starffin Willie Stargell Joe Start Turkey Stearnes Harry Stovey Mule Suttles Don Sutton Ezra Sutton Bill Terry Sam Thompson Luis Tiant Joe Torre Cristobal Torriente Pie Traynor Dazzy Vance Arky Vaughan Rube Waddell Honus Wagner Bobby Wallace Ed Walsh Paul Waner John M. Ward Willie Wells Zack Wheat Lou Whitaker Deacon White Hoyt Wilhelm Billy Williams Smoky Joe Williams Ted Williams Jud Wilson Dave Winfield George Wright Early Wynn Jimmy Wynn Carl Yastrzemski Cy Young Robin Yount
Code:Doc Adams Mel Allen Walter Alston Sparky Anderson Red Barber Ed Barrow Buzzue Bavasi Ed Bolden Alexander Cartwright Henry Chadwick Frank Chance Charlie Commiskey Charles Conlon Tom Connolly Jim Creighton Jack Dunn Leo Durocher Bob Ferguson Rube Foster Ford Frick Gus Greenlee Clark Griffith Ned Hanlon Vic Harris Whitey Herzog William Hulbert Miller Huggins Ban Johnson Tetsuharu Kawakami Bill Klem Kenesaw Landis Tommy Lasorda Al Lopez Connie Mack Larry MacPhail Joe McCarthy John McGraw Bill McKechnie Marvin Miller Walter O'Malley Buck O'Neill Dickey Pearce Cum Posey A. J. Reach Francis Richter Branch Rickey Phil Rizzuto Jacob Ruppert Vin Scully Frank Selee Ben Shibe Matsutaro Shoriki Billy Southworth Al Spalding Alfred Spink J. G. T. Spink Casey Stengel C. I. Taylor Kazuto Tsuruoka Bill Veeck Earl Weaver George Weiss Sol White J. L. Wilkinson Dick Williams Harry Wright
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The complete list of eligible players:
The complete list of eligible contributors:Code:Adams , Babe Adams , Bobby Adams , Sparky Allen , Johnny Alou , Jesus Alou , Matty Alou, Felipe Altrock , Nick Aparicio, Luis Archer , Jimmy Arlett , Buzz Austin , Jimmy Avila, Bobby Bailey , Bob Baker , Dusty Bancroft , Dave Bando , Sal Barry , Jack Bartell , Dick Battin , Joe Bauer , Hank Baylor , Don Beaumont , Ginger Beckert, Glenn Beckley , Jake Bedrosian , Steve Belanger , Mark Bell , Buddy Bender , Chief Benton , Larry Berg , Moe Bergen , Marty Berger , Wally Berry , Charlie Bibby , Jim Bigbee , Carson Billingham , Jack Bishop , Max Blackwell , Ewell Blades , Ray Blair , Paul Blass , Steve Blue , Lu Blue , Vida Bluege , Ossie Bodie , Ping Boggs , Wade Boley , Joe Bond , Tommy Bonds , Bobby Boone, Bob Bottomley , Jim Bowa , Larry Boyer , Clete Bradley , Bill Brecheen , Harry Breitenstein , Ted Brewer , Jim Bridges , Tommy Brock, Lou Browning , Pete Bruton, Bill Buckner , Bill Burdette , Lew Burgess , Smoky Burns , George J. Burroughs , Jeff Bush , Joe Bush , Donie Bush , Guy Butler , Brett Cadore , Leon Camilli , Dolph Camnitz , Howie Campaneris , Bert Campbell , Bill Candelaria , John Candiotti , Tom Cardenal , Jose Cardenas , Leo Carrasquel. Chico Carrigan , Bill Carroll, Clay Case , George Cash , Dave Cash, Norm Cavaretta , Phil Cedeno , Cesar Cepeda , Orlando Cey , Ron Chandler , Spud Chapman , Ben Chapman , Ray Chapman , Sam Chase , Hal Chesbro , Jack Childs , Cupid Cicotte , Eddie Cissell , Bill Clark , Jack Clark , Watty Clarkson , Bus Clift, Harlond Coakley , Andy Colavito, Rocky Collins , Shano Combs , Earle Concepcion , Dave Conroy , Wid Coombs , Jack Cooper , Andy Cooper , Mort Cooper , Walker Cooper , Wilbur Courtney , Clint Cox , Billy Crandall , Doc Crandall, Del Cravath , Gavvy Criger , Lou Critz , Hughie Cross , Lave Crowder , Al Cruise , Walt Cruz , Jose Cuccinello , Tony Cummings , Candy Cuyler , Kiki Dandridge , Ray Danning , Harry Dark , Alvin Daubert , Jake Davis , Curt Davis , Harry Davis , Spud Dawson , Andre Day , Leon DeCinces, Doug Dempsey , Rick Denny , John Dent , Bucky Derringer , Paul DiMaggio , Dom Dinneen , Bill Doak , Bill Donaldson, John Donlin , Mike Donovan , Bill Dooin , Red Downing, Bryan Doyle , Jack Doyle , Larry Dropo , Walt Duffy , Hugh Dugan , Joe Dunlap , Fred Dykes , Jimmy Earnshaw , George Easter, Luke Edwards , Hank Ehmke , Howard Elberfeld , Kid Elliott , Bob Elliott , Jumbo Ellis , Dock Enatsu , Yutaka Ennis, Del Ens , Jewel Erskine , Carl Evans , Darrell Evans , Dwight Evers , Johnny Face, Roy Fairly , Ron Falkenberg , Cy Ferrell , Rick Fingers , Rollie Fitzsimmons , Freddie Flanagan , Mike Fletcher , Art Flood , Curt Fonseca , Lew Forsch, Bob Foster , Eddie Foster , George Fraser , Chick Freehan, Bill Fregosi , Jim Furillo , Carl Gaetti , Gary Galan , Augie Garner , Phil Garver, Ned Garvey , Steve Gelbert , Charlie Gibson , Kirk Gleason , Kid Gomez , Lefty Gonzalez , Mike Gowdy , Hank Grant , Eddie Grantham , George Griffey, Sr, Ken Grimes , Burleigh Grimm , Charlie Grissom , Marv Groat, Dick Gromek , Steve Grove , Orval Guerrero , Pedro Guidry, Ron Gustine , Frank Haas , Mule Haddix, Harvey Hafey , Chick Hahn , Noodles Haines , Jesse Hallahan , Bill Harder , Mel Hargrave , Bubbles Hargrove , Mike Harrah , Toby Harrelson , Bud Harris , Bucky Harris , Vic Hatton , Grady Hearn , Jim Hebner , Richie Hegan , Jim Helms, Tommy Hemus , Solly Henderson , Dave Henke , Tom Henrich , Tommy Herman , Babe Hernandez , Willie Hershiser , Orel Herzog , Buck Hickman , Jim Higgins , Mike Hiller , John Hinchman , Bill Hodges, Gil Holmes , Tommy Holtzman , Ken Honeycutt , Rick Hooper , Harry Hooton, Burt Horton , Willie Hough, Charlie Houtteman , Art Howard , Frank Howard, Elston Hoy , Dummy Hoyt , Waite Hrabosky , Al Huggins , Miller Hunter , Catfish Hurst , Bruce Hutchinson , Fred Irwin , Charlie Jackman , Will Jackson , Sonny Jensen , Jackie John , Tommy Johnson , Bob Johnson , Davey Johnson , Judy Jones , Charley Jones , Doug Jones , Fielder Jones , Sam P. Jordan , Tim Jorgenson , Mike Judge , Joe Jurges , Billy Kaat, Jim Kamm , Willie Kawakami , Tetsuharu Kell , George Keltner , Ken Kennedy , Terry Kerr , Dickie Kessinger , Don Killefer , Bill Kilroy , Matt Kinder , Ellis Kingman , Dave Klein , Chuck Kling , Johnny Kluszewski, Ted Knabe , Otto Knight , Ray Koosman , Jerry Kremer , Ray Kress , Red Krukow , Mike Kuenn, Harvey Kuhel , Joe Kuzava , Bob Lange , Bill Lanier , Hal Lansford , Carney Larkin , Henry Larsen, Don Latham , Arlie Lavagetto , Cookie Law, Vern Lazzeri , Tony Leach , Freddy Leach , Tommy Lee , Bill Lee , Bill (Spaceman) Leever , Sam Lemon , Chet Leonard , Dennis Leonard , Emil (Dutch) Lewis , Duffy Lewis, Buddy Lindstrom , Freddie Lobert , Hans Lockman , Whitey Lolich, Mickey Lollar, Sherm Lombardi , Ernie Lonborg , Jim Long , Herman Lopat , Ed Lopes , Davey Lopez , Al Lowe , Bobby Lowenstein , John Lucas , Red Lundy , Dick Luque , Dolf Luzinski, Greg Lyle , Sparky Lynn , Fred Lyons , Denny Madlock , Bill Maglie , Sal Maloney, Jim Mancuso , Gus Manush , Heinie Maranville , Rabbit Marberry , Firpo Marion , Marty Maris, Roger Marquard , Rube Marshall , Mike G. Martin , Morrie Martin , Pepper Martinez , Dennis Mathews , Bobby May , Lee Mays , Carl Mazeroski , Bill McAleer , Jimmy McCarthy , Tommy McCarver , Tim McCormick , Frank McCormick , Jim McDaniel , Lindy McDougald, Gil McGowan , Bill McGraw , Tug McInnis , Stuffy McLain , Denny McLean , Larry McMahon, Don McManus , Marty McMillan, Roy McNally , Dave McVey , Cal Meadows , Lee Messersmith , Andy Meusel , Bob Miksis , Eddie Milan , Clyde Millan , Felix Miller , Bing Miller , Dots Miller , Hack Monday , Rick Money , Don Monroe , Bill Moon, Wally Moore , Jo-Jo Moore , Terry Moran , Pat Morris , Jack Mostil , Johnny Mota, Manny Mulcahy , Hugh Mullane , Tony Mungo , Van Munson , Thurman Murcer , Bobby Murphy , Dale Murphy , Danny Murray , Red Myer , Buddy Nehf , Art Nettles , Graig Newcombe , Don Newsom , Bobo Nicholson , Bill Niekro , Joe Northey , Ron O'Doul , Lefty Oeschger , Joe O'Farrell , Bob O'Leary , Charlie Oliva, Tony Oliver , Al O'Neill , Steve O'Neill , Tip Orr , Dave Pabor , Charlie Pafko , Andy Parker , Dave Parrish , Lance Parrish , Larry Pascual, Camilo Paskert , Dode Pearson , Monte Peckinpaugh , Roger Peitz , Heinie Pena , Tony Pennock , Herb Perdue , Hub Perez , Tony Perkins , Cy Perranoski , Ron Perry , Jim Pesky , Johnny Petrocelli, Rico Phillippe , Deacon Pierce , Billy Pike , Lip Piniella, Lou Pinson, Vada Pipp , Wally Podres, Johnny Poles , Spotswood Porterfield , Bob Powell , Boog Power , Vic Pruett , Hub Puhl , Terry Quinn , Jack Quisenberry , Dan Randolph , Willie Raschi , Vic Raymond , Bugs Reardon , Jeff Redding , Dick Reiser , Pete Remsen , Jack Remy , Jerry Reuschel , Rick Reynolds , Allie Rice , Del Rice , Jim Rice , Sam Richard, J R Richardson , Bobby Richardson , Hardy Righetti , Dave Ring , Jimmy Ritchey , Claude Rivers , Mickey Rixey , Eppa Robertson , Dave Roe , Preacher Rolfe , Red Rommel , Eddie Root , Charlie Rosen, Al Rucker , Nap Rudolph , Dick Ruel , Muddy Russell , Bill Ryan , Jimmy Sain , Johnny Sanguillen , Manny Sauer , Hank Schacht , Al Schaefer , Germany Schalk , Ray Schang , Wally Schoendienst , Red Schreckengost , Ossie Schulte , Frank Scott , Everett Scott , George Scott , Jack Scott , Mike Selkirk , George Severeid , Hank Sewell , Joe Sewell , Luke Sewell , Rip Seymour , Cy Shantz, Bobby Sheckard , Jimmy Sherdel , Bill Shocker , Urban Short , Chris Siebert , Sonny Sievers , Roy Simmons, Curt Singleton , Ken Sisti , Sibby Smalley , Roy Smith , Earl Smith , Lee Smith , Lonnie Smith , Reggie Smith , Sherry Sparks , Tully Speier, Chris Stahl , Jake Stanky , Eddie Stanley , Mickey Staub , Rusty Steinfeldt , Harry Stephens , Vern Stephenson , Riggs Stewart , Dave Stieb , Dave Stottlemyre , Mel Street , Gabby Suhr , Gus Sukeforth , Clyde Sundberg , Jim Sutcliffe , Rick Sutter , Bruce Sweeney , Bill Tannehill , Jesse Taylor , Ben Tebbetts , Birdie Tekulve, Kent Templeton , Garry Tenace , Gene Tenney , Fred Thevenow , Tommy Thomas , Ira Thomson , Bobby Thornton , Andre Tiernan , Mike Tinker , Joe Tobin , Jim Toney , Fred Torgeson, Earl Torrez , Mike Trammell , Alan Travis, Cecil Trouppe , Quincy Trout , Dizzy Trucks , Virgil Tudor , John Turner , Terry Uhle , George Valentine , Ellis Valo , Elmer Van Haltren , George Vander Meer , Johnny Veach , Bobby Vernon , Mickey Walberg , Rube Walker , Harry Wallach , Tim Walters , Bucky Wambsganss , Bill Waner , Lloyd Warfield , Frank Warneke , Lon Watson , Bob Welch , Bob Welch , Mickey Werber , Billy Wertz, Vic West , Sam Westrum , Wes White , Sol White , Will White, Frank Whitehill , Earl Williams , Cy Williams , Ken Williamson , Ned Willis , Vic Wills, Maury Wilson , Hack Wilson , Jim Wilson , Jimmie Wilson , Willie Witt , Whitey Wood , Joe Wood , Wilbur Wright , Glenn Wyatt , Whit Yamamoto , Koji Yeager , Steve Yerkes , Steve York , Rudy Young , Pep Youngs , Ross Zachary , Tom Zimmer , Chief
Code:Abe , Iso Alou , Felipe Ashford, Emmet Autry, Gene Bancroft , Frank Barlick, Al Berger , Sy Brickhouse , Jack Buck , Jack Bulkely , Morgan Busch , Augie Cambria , Joe Campbell , Jim Canel, Buck Caray, Harry Carrigan, Bill Caylor , O. P. Chandler, Happy Chylak , Nestor Conlan , Jocko Cooper , Andy Cummings , Candy Dark , Alvin Davids , Bob Dinneen , Bill Doubleday , Abner Dreyfuss , Barney Dyer , Eddie Dykes , Jimmy Elias , Al Munro Evans, Billy Feller, Sherm Fetzer, John Flood , Curt Foster , John B. Fowler, Bud Fullerton , Hugh Giles , Warren Gillick , Pat Gleason , Kid Gonzalez , Mike Gowdy , Curt Grimm, Charlie Haak , Howie Haney , Fred Harridge, Willie Harris , Bucky Harvey, Doug Harwell, Ernie Hemond , Roland Herzog, Whitey Heydler, John Hillerich , John Hodges, Gil Hodges, Russ Houk , Ralph Howsam, Bob Hubbard , Cal Hutchinson , Fred Jobe , Frank Kaat , Jim Krichell, Paul Kuenn , Harvey Kuhn , Bowie Lanigan, Ernest Lardner , Ring Leavitt, Jr. , Charles W. Luque , Dolf MacPhail, Lee Manley , Effa Martin , Billy Mauch , Gene McCarthy , Tommy McGowan, Bill Mills , A. G. Mizuhara, Shigeru Moran , Pat Murnane, Tim Murtaugh, Danny Mutrie , Jim Navin , Frank Neft , David Nelson , Lindsey Norworth, Jack O'Day, Hank O'Doul, Lefty O'Neill, Steve Osborn , Frank Palmer , Pete Pasquel, Jorge Patkin, Max Pesky , Johnny Pompez , Alex Pulliam, Harry Ramirez, Felo Reese , Jimmie Rice, Grantland Richards, Paul Ritter , Lawrence Robinson , Wilbert Schoendienst, Red Selig , Bud Sewell , Luke Sheppard, Bob Smith, Red Stallings , George Steinbrenner, George Street, Gabby Tanner , Chuck Thayer , Ernest Tyson, Ty Uecker , Bob van der Ahe, Chris Virdon, Bill Warfield , Frank Weyer , Lee Wilson , Horace Wrigley, Phil Yawkey, Tom
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
I invite folks to check the lists in the previous two posts, as I'm working off of backups due to computer issues. If you spot what you think is an error, please either post in this thread or PM me. Thanks.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
My ballot
Players
1. Wade Boggs
2. Alan Trammell
3. Cupid Childs
4. Sal Bando
5. Quincy Trouppe
6. Rick Reuschel
7. Bill Freehan
8. Reggie Smith
9. Andre Dawson
10. Hugh Duffy
11. Tony Mullane
12. Graig Nettles
Contributors
1. Iso Abe
2. Al Munro Elias
3. David Neft
4. George Steinbrenner
5. Shigeru Mizuhara
Wade Boggs and Alan Trammell move into the 1 and 2 spots respectively, and Graig Nettles moves into spot #12. Shigeru Mizuhara comes onto my contributor ballot at #5.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Registered User
01. Wade Boggs
02. Alan Trammell
03. Jake Beckley
04. Urban Shocker
05. Wally Berger
06. Quincy Trouppe
07. Sal Bando
08. Luis Aparicio
09. Billy Pierce
10. Bill Freehan
11. Cupid Childs
12. Tony Mullane
01. Frank Jobe
02. Lefty O'Doul
03. Iso Abe
04. George Steinbrenner
05. Al Munro Elias
Registered User
Players:
1. Wade Boggs
2. Alan Trammell
3. Reggie Smith
4. Jimmy Sheckard
5. Sal Bando
6. Cal McVey
7. Rick Reuschel
8. Lou Brock
9. Urban Shocker
10. Hugh Duffy
11. Quincy Trouppe
12. Dwight Evans
Contributors:
1. O.P. Caylor
2. David Neft
3. Al Munro Elias
4. Iso Abe
5. George Steinbrenner
Contributor queue: Pat Gillick, Billy Martin, Shigeru Mizuhara, Jocko Conlan, Billy Evans, Cal Hubbard, Lefty O'Doul
Player queue: Dale Murphy, Cupid Childs, Wally Schang, Hardy Richardson, Charley Jones, Bill Freehan, Jake Beckley, Sam Rice, Lip Pike, Thurman Munson, Rabbit Maranville
Bleed the Freak
2003 Ballot:
1 Wade Boggs
2 Alan Trammell
3 Rick Reuschel
4 Dwight Evans
5 Dick Lundy
6 Darrell Evans
7 Bill Freehan
8 Reggie Smith
9 Jimmy Sheckard
10 Andre Dawson
11 Don Newcombe
12 Urban Shocker
Contributors:
1 Johnny Pesky
2 Iso Abe
3 Shigeru Mizuhara
4 Al Munro Elias
5 Doug Harvey
Last edited by Jar of Flies; 07-17-2011 at 12:47 PM.
carpe baseball
Players
1. Wade Boggs
2. Alan Trammell
3. Dwight Evans
4. Rick Reuschel
5. Reggie Smith
6. Bill Freehan
7. Quincy Trouppe
8. Andre Dawson
9. Sal Bando
10. Dale Murphy
11. Billy Pierce
12. Jimmy Sheckard
Contributors
1. Al Munro Elias
2. Iso Abe
3. David Neft
4. George Steinbrenner
5. Shigeru Mizuhara
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff." -- Cicero
1. Wade Boggs
2. Alan Trammell
3. Bill Freehan
4. Frank Howard
5. Orlando Cepeda
6. Dewey Evans
7. Andre Dawson
8. Lou Brock - maybe pointless to readjust but so be it
9. Cupid Childs
10. Tommy Leach
11. Tony Perez
12. Johnny Evers
back soon: Ray Dandridge
in the wings: Dave bancroft, Darrell Evans, Bando, Pinson, Maranville, Sheckard, Reggie Smith and Tommy John to name a few.
1. O.P. Caylor
2. Red Smith
3. Billy Evans
4. Tommy McCarthy
5. Doug Harvey
Registered User
1 Wade Boggs
2 Alan Trammell
3 Eppa Rixey
4 Lou Brock
5 Andre Dawson
6 Luis Aparicio
7 Burleigh Grimes
8 Rick Reuschel
9 Bill Freehan
10 Reggie Smith
11 Urban Schocker
12 Jacob Beckley
a posse ad esse
Players
1. Wade Boggs
2. Alan Trammell
3. Eppa Rixey
4. Joe Sewell
5. Rollie Fingers
6. Luis Aparicio
7. Wally Berger
8. Bill Freehan
9. Billy Pierce
10. Reggie Smith
11. Graig Nettles
12. Quincy Trouppe
Dwight Evans drops off the ballot. Orel Hershiser makes the queue in the "too bad he won't make it" area near Wilbur Cooper and Bucky Walters.
Contributors
1. Al Munro Elias
2. Billy Martin
3. Billy Evans
4. Bob Howsam
5. David Neft
With no incumbents elected and Palmer losing out in favor of Neft... no changes here.
September 16, 2012: The Losing Streak Ends
OSHA-certified Moderator
1. Wade Boggs
2. Andre Dawson
3. Alan Trammell
4. Burleigh Grimes
5. Luis Aparicio
6. Lefty Gomez
7. Eppa Rixey
8. Jake Beckley
9. Lou Brock
10. Ray Dandridge
11. Tony Perez
12. Jimmy Sheckard
Contributors
1. Billy Evans
2. O.P. Caylor
3. Bucky Harris
4. Ernie Harwell
5. Iso Abe
Tom Tresh George Kell Mark Fidrych Bob Feller
Ernie Harwell Soupy Sales Alex Chilton Sparky Anderson
Joe Nuxhall Gary Carter MCA Emanuel Steward
Sonny Elliot Dave Brubeck Earl Weaver Stan Musial
Jonathan Winters Neil Armstrong Roger Ebert Anthony Zahler
Ray Manzarek
Registered User
Players:
1. Wade Boggs
2. Lou Brock
3. Jake Beckley
4. Alan Trammell
5. Tony Mullane
6. Jimmy Sheckard
7. Rick Reuschel
8. Ray Dandridge
9. Quincy Trouppe
10. Bill Freehan
11. Dwight Evans
12. Luis Aparicio
Contributors:
1. Harry Caray
2. David Neft
3. Bob Uecker
4. Al Munro Elias
5. Billy Evans
carpe baseball
The only outstanding voter from last election is Dogdaze, who hasn't posted at BBF since his July 3rd post in the 2002 ballot thread. Removing the three players and one contributor elected last cycle from his ballots, here's how his holdovers were ranked in 2002:
Given no new voters this cycle, Dogdaze's ballot could potentially decide both the contributor ballot and one of the player spots. Curious to see how the newcomers rank on his ballot and if he's given any thought to reordering his holdovers.Players:
1. Lou Brock
2. Luis Aparicio
3. Dwight Evans
4. Wally Berger
5. Rick Reuschel
6. Eppa Rixey
7. Reggie Smith
8. Bill Freehan
9. Andre Dawson
Contributors:
1. Iso Abe
2. Billy Evans
3. Al Munro Elias
4. David Neft
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff." -- Cicero
2004 & 2007
Yeah, I haven't posted much lately, been really busy these days, anyway, here's my votes:Originally Posted by Brad Harris
Players:
1. Wade Boggs
2. Alan Trammell
3. Lou Brock
4. Luis Aparicio
5. Dwight Evans
6. Wally Berger
7. Rick Reuschel
8. Eppa Rixey
9. Reggie Smith
10. Bill Freehan
11. Andre Dawson
12. Quincy Trouppe
Contributors:
1. Iso Abe
2. Billy Evans
3. Al Munro Elias
4. David Neft
5. Shigeru Mizuhara
carpe baseball
That was incredibly timely! Thanks, Dogdaze. I was really curious who the 12th player on your ballot might be. Trouppe is already garnering majority support among voters. Solid choice.
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff." -- Cicero
carpe baseball
Looking ahead, it appears as though we're going to have a decent number of elections over the next several years in which no new pitching candidates will likely hold any water. That makes me wonder about the existing backlog as they will be absolutely buried once the Clemens, Johnson, Maddux, etc. glut starts.
Pitchers receiving votes in this election, listed by number of people voting for them:
7 Rick Reuschel
4 Eppa Rixey, Urban Shocker
3 Tony Mullane, Billy Pierce
2 Burleigh Grimes
1 Rollie Fingers, Lefty Gomez, Don Newcombe
Now is a good time to look at (a) how these pitchers stack up against each other and (b) if there's any eligible pitcher not presently receiving support who might be comparable or better than the cream of this crop. I'm not suggesting a certain number of pitchers is required, but it's reasonable that on a twelve-man ballot, one or two of the candidates will be a pitcher and I hope we're not just throwing names up there haphazardly. With a good four or five years before the big glut of modern shoo-ins starts hitting the ballot, now is the best time to rethink and campaign for some of these leftovers.
Food for thought on our pitching leftovers?
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff." -- Cicero
Researcher/advocate/mod
As noted earlier, all of last election's voters have now voted, so we have quorums on both ballots. If anyone else wants to vote, they're certainly welcome to do so.
That said, I'll post next year's new candidates. First, the players:
The top three of that group should be Henderson, Sandberg and Raines, and I'd expect them to sweep the three spots next available next election. The contributors add:Code:Baines , Harold Bell , George Eisenreich , Jim Gullickson , Bill Henderson , Rickey Kile , Darryl Phillips , Tony Raines , Tim Sandberg , Ryne
Code:Bouton , Jim Caray , Skip
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
a posse ad esse
The top 51 pitchers in my personal rankings to date have been elected. Pitcher #52 is Eppa Rixey. Rixey is 29th all time in IP with 4494 innings over 21 seasons (no small feat even in his time); he is 28th in batters faced with 18,754. Often times he would be among the league leaders in IP, BF, games started, etc. In all that time he had only two stinker seasons (1914, 1919) while posting seven seasons of at least 1100 BF and an ERA+ north of 110. Overall, he averaged a modest 115 ERA+ and 1.272 WHIP. The guy was a modicum of consistency whose real-life wins and losses (266-251) make him look worse than he was (one method of adjusted wins has him at 275-224). For the war credit voters, remember also that Rixey missed his age 27 season serving in World War I and his age 28 season suffered for it. Finally, if I may dust off the old Win Shares method... Rixey is credited with 315 Win Shares, and posted eight 20+ Win Share seasons. Rixey is both a member of Cooperstown and the Hall of Merit.
I liken Rixey to several pitchers who have already been elected (Don Sutton, Red Faber, Red Ruffing). It's fair to put him at the bottom of that list. That said, behind Rixey are a couple more workhorse pitchers I'm seriously looking at: Tommy John and Jack Quinn. Then we've got pitchers like Jim Kaat, Dick Redding and Burleigh Grimes bringing up the rear.
Last edited by J W; 07-21-2011 at 11:58 AM.
September 16, 2012: The Losing Streak Ends
Registered User
My next 5 pitchers:
1. Rick Reuschel--3548.1 IP with a 114 ERA+, 3 AS, 1 GG, an excellent pitcher despite bad teams with the Cubs. Some flashes of brilliance late in his career with the Pirates and Giants.
2. Urban Shocker--Short career (13 seasons, 2681 IP) but superb peak, 146 gray ink, 124 career ERA+
3. Jack Quinn--3920.1 IP with a 114 ERA+, long career, effective for many years, 8 seasons 3.0 WAR or better, 138 gray ink
4. Burleigh Grimes--WAR sells him short; very effective in his era. 4180.0 IP, 108 ERA+, 38 black ink, 213 gray ink.
5. Eppa Rixey--4494.2 IP, 115 ERA+, not quite as effective in his era as Grimes, but still solid with 172 Gray ink.
I am firm in both Reuschel and Shocker. I'm not as much so on Quinn, Grimes and Rixey and doubt any of them will make it onto my ballot in this project.
carpe baseball
My top ten currently eligible starting pitchers look something like this:
1. Rick Reuschel
2. Billy Pierce
3. Tony Mullane
4. Tommy John
5. Urban Shocker
6. Eppa Rixey
7. Dave Stieb
8. Vic Willis
9. Don Newcombe
10. Eddie Cicotte
Newcomers for next year:
1. Rickey Henderson
2. Tim Raines
3. Ryne Sandberg
4...12. holdovers
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff." -- Cicero
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