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Thread: 2003 Best of Baseball election thread

  1. #21
    Looking ahead, it appears as though we're going to have a decent number of elections over the next several years in which no new pitching candidates will likely hold any water. That makes me wonder about the existing backlog as they will be absolutely buried once the Clemens, Johnson, Maddux, etc. glut starts.

    Pitchers receiving votes in this election, listed by number of people voting for them:
    7 Rick Reuschel
    4 Eppa Rixey, Urban Shocker
    3 Tony Mullane, Billy Pierce
    2 Burleigh Grimes
    1 Rollie Fingers, Lefty Gomez, Don Newcombe

    Now is a good time to look at (a) how these pitchers stack up against each other and (b) if there's any eligible pitcher not presently receiving support who might be comparable or better than the cream of this crop. I'm not suggesting a certain number of pitchers is required, but it's reasonable that on a twelve-man ballot, one or two of the candidates will be a pitcher and I hope we're not just throwing names up there haphazardly. With a good four or five years before the big glut of modern shoo-ins starts hitting the ballot, now is the best time to rethink and campaign for some of these leftovers.

    Food for thought on our pitching leftovers?
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  2. #22
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    As noted earlier, all of last election's voters have now voted, so we have quorums on both ballots. If anyone else wants to vote, they're certainly welcome to do so.

    That said, I'll post next year's new candidates. First, the players:
    Code:
    Baines , Harold
    Bell , George
    Eisenreich , Jim 
    Gullickson , Bill
    Henderson , Rickey
    Kile , Darryl
    Phillips , Tony
    Raines , Tim
    Sandberg , Ryne
    The top three of that group should be Henderson, Sandberg and Raines, and I'd expect them to sweep the three spots next available next election. The contributors add:
    Code:
    Bouton , Jim
    Caray , Skip
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Harris View Post
    Food for thought on our pitching leftovers?
    The top 51 pitchers in my personal rankings to date have been elected. Pitcher #52 is Eppa Rixey. Rixey is 29th all time in IP with 4494 innings over 21 seasons (no small feat even in his time); he is 28th in batters faced with 18,754. Often times he would be among the league leaders in IP, BF, games started, etc. In all that time he had only two stinker seasons (1914, 1919) while posting seven seasons of at least 1100 BF and an ERA+ north of 110. Overall, he averaged a modest 115 ERA+ and 1.272 WHIP. The guy was a modicum of consistency whose real-life wins and losses (266-251) make him look worse than he was (one method of adjusted wins has him at 275-224). For the war credit voters, remember also that Rixey missed his age 27 season serving in World War I and his age 28 season suffered for it. Finally, if I may dust off the old Win Shares method... Rixey is credited with 315 Win Shares, and posted eight 20+ Win Share seasons. Rixey is both a member of Cooperstown and the Hall of Merit.

    I liken Rixey to several pitchers who have already been elected (Don Sutton, Red Faber, Red Ruffing). It's fair to put him at the bottom of that list. That said, behind Rixey are a couple more workhorse pitchers I'm seriously looking at: Tommy John and Jack Quinn. Then we've got pitchers like Jim Kaat, Dick Redding and Burleigh Grimes bringing up the rear.
    Last edited by J W; 07-21-2011 at 11:58 AM.

  4. #24
    My next 5 pitchers:

    1. Rick Reuschel--3548.1 IP with a 114 ERA+, 3 AS, 1 GG, an excellent pitcher despite bad teams with the Cubs. Some flashes of brilliance late in his career with the Pirates and Giants.

    2. Urban Shocker--Short career (13 seasons, 2681 IP) but superb peak, 146 gray ink, 124 career ERA+

    3. Jack Quinn--3920.1 IP with a 114 ERA+, long career, effective for many years, 8 seasons 3.0 WAR or better, 138 gray ink

    4. Burleigh Grimes--WAR sells him short; very effective in his era. 4180.0 IP, 108 ERA+, 38 black ink, 213 gray ink.

    5. Eppa Rixey--4494.2 IP, 115 ERA+, not quite as effective in his era as Grimes, but still solid with 172 Gray ink.

    I am firm in both Reuschel and Shocker. I'm not as much so on Quinn, Grimes and Rixey and doubt any of them will make it onto my ballot in this project.

  5. #25
    My top ten currently eligible starting pitchers look something like this:

    1. Rick Reuschel
    2. Billy Pierce
    3. Tony Mullane
    4. Tommy John
    5. Urban Shocker
    6. Eppa Rixey
    7. Dave Stieb
    8. Vic Willis
    9. Don Newcombe
    10. Eddie Cicotte

    Newcomers for next year:
    1. Rickey Henderson
    2. Tim Raines
    3. Ryne Sandberg
    4...12. holdovers
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  6. #26
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    Uh-oh. Mine looks quite different. Well, I might as well list what I've got so it can be picked apart:

    1. Eppa Rixey
    2. Rollie Fingers
    3. Billy Pierce
    4. Lee Smith
    5. Tommy John
    6. Carl Mays
    7. Lefty Gomez
    8. Jim Kaat
    9. Mickey Welch
    10. Jack Quinn
    11. Vic Willis
    12. Urban Shocker
    13. Tommy Bridges
    14. Tony Mullane
    15. Bruce Sutter
    16. Dan Quisenberry
    17. Eddie Cicotte
    18. Dick Redding
    19. Chief Bender
    20. Dave Steib
    21. Jim McCormick
    22. Virgil Trucks
    23. Tom Henke
    24. Orel Hershiser
    25. Harry Brecheen
    26. Jerry Koosman
    27. Wilbur Cooper
    28. Bucky Walters
    29. Rick Reuschel
    30. Dennis Martinez
    31. Larry Jackson
    32. Kent Tekulve
    33. Don Newcombe
    34. Lew Burdette
    35. Noodles Hahn
    36. Silver King
    37. Sparky Lyle
    38. Andy Cooper
    39. Milt Pappas
    40. Vida Blue
    41. Eddie Rommel
    42. Jack Morris
    43. Burleigh Grimes
    44. Herb Pennock
    45. Catfish Hunter
    46. Charlie Buffinton
    47. Ron Guidry
    48. Mickey Lolich
    49. Waite Hoyt
    50. Mike Marshall

  7. #27
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    This election has ended with the usual 11 player ballots and 10 contributor ballots. We elected Wade Boggs, Rick Reuschel and Alan Trammell among the players and Al Munro Elias among the contributors. The full results will follow, players first:

    Code:
    Players…………	votes	pts
    Boggs, Wade	11	132
    Trammell, Alan	11	118
    Reuschel, Rick	7	49
    Freehan, Bill	9	47
    Brock, Lou	6	44
    Dawson, Andre	7	39
    Smith, Reggie	7	38
    Aparicio, Luis	6	37
    Evans, Dwight	6	37
    Rixey , Eppa	4	31
    Trouppe, Quincy	7	29
    Bando, Sal	4	27
    Beckley , Jake	4	26
    Sheckard , J	5	22
    Berger , Wally	3	21
    Childs , Cupid	3	16
    Shocker, Urban	4	16
    Grimes , B	2	15
    Mullane , Tony	3	11
    Pierce, Billy	3	10
    Howard, Frank	1	9
    Sewell , Joe	1	9
    Cepeda, Orlando	1	8
    Dandridge, Ray	2	8
    Fingers, Rollie	1	8
    Lundy , Dick	1	8
    Evans, Darrell	1	7
    Gomez, Lefty	1	7
    McVey , Cal	1	7
    Duffy , Hugh	2	6
    Perez, Tony	2	4
    Leach , Tommy	1	3
    Murphy, Dale	1	3
    Nettles, Graig	2	3
    Newcombe, Don	1	2
    Evers, Johnny	1	1
    Now the contributors:
    Code:
    Contributors……	votes	pts
    Elias, Al Munro	8	25
    Abe, Iso	7	24
    Neft, David	6	17
    Evans, Billy	5	16
    Caylor , O. P.	3	14
    Steinbrenner, G	4	7
    Mizuhara, S	4	6
    Caray, Harry	1	5
    Jobe, Frank	1	5
    Pesky, Johnny	1	5
    Martin, Billy	1	4
    O'Doul, Lefty	1	4
    Smith, Red	1	4
    Harris , Bucky	1	3
    Uecker, Bob	1	3
    Harvey, Doug	2	2
    Harwell, Ernie	1	2
    Howsam, Bob	1	2
    McCarthy, Tommy	1	2
    Last edited by jalbright; 07-31-2011 at 10:53 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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