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Thread: BBF Tigers HOF--round two

  1. #1
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    BBF Tigers HOF--round two

    Already elected to the Tigers HOF are:

    Players
    Tommy Bridges
    Norm Cash
    Ty Cobb
    Sam Crawford
    Bill Freehan
    Charlie Gehringer
    Hank Greenberg
    Harry Heilmann
    Al Kaline
    Mickey Lolich
    Hal Newhouser
    Alan Trammell
    Lou Whitaker

    Contributors
    Sparky Anderson
    Jim Campbell
    Ernie Harwell
    Hughie Jennings

    The prior thread for the Tigers is here

    This election will close on August 10, 2011, at 2:00 p.m.

    PLEASE READ THE FORMAT AND RULES SECTION BEFORE VOTING. THANK YOU.

    FORMAT AND RULES

    Purpose: The purpose of this project is to create a Hall of Fame for each franchise whereby each franchise will honor those individuals whose contributions and accomplishments are most notable, significant, and enduring to that franchise's history. This project is not about simply honoring those with the best statistics with each franchise.

    Standards: Each franchise has its own unique history and context, and thus contributions and accomplishments that may stand out remarkably within one franchise's history, may not be so remarkable in another franchise's history. Standards from franchise to franchise will inherently vary, and thus there should be no impetus to create equal standards among the franchises or to aspire to the standards of the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Consequently, subjectivity within the context of the franchise in question will play an inevitable role when considering an individual's contributions and accomplishments with respect to that franchise. In sum, a franchise's Hall of Fame should be unaffected by the standards and contexts of other franchises as well as the National Baseball Hall of Fame, and should be entirely a product of its own history.

    Election Format: Elections will be conducted one franchise at a time starting in chronological order with the oldest continuously and currently operational franchise. Each election will last approximately seven days.
    - Ballot Size: Voters can select up to 15 players and 5 contributors per election. Ballots that exceed the maximum limits at the close of an election will not be counted. There is no minimum ballot size.
    - Ballot Editing: To account for ongoing discussion, voters may edit their ballots as often as necessary through the end of an election.
    - Election Percentage: Any individual that is listed on at least 75% of either the player or contributor submitted ballots will be elected to that team's Hall of Fame. In instances where an individual receive votes as both a player and a contributor, that individual will be elected if listed on at least 75% of ballots in either category or if the individual's combined vote total is at least 75% of the category with the greatest number of ballots submitted.
    - Subsequent Rounds: After an election has been performed for each franchise, a second round of elections will commence, again proceeding in chronological order. A third round of elections (and perhaps beyond) may also be held depending on interest.

    Eligibility:
    - Players: Players may be considered by any currently operational franchise for which they appeared and are eligible either immediately upon officially retiring or after having not appeared at any level of professional baseball for an entire season for reasons not due to injury.
    - Contributors: Individuals that contributed in other capacities to a franchise may be considered, including managers, coaches, executives, owners, and broadcasters, but not fictional characters such as mascots. Contributors that are still active may only be elected by their current employing franchise, and cannot be considered by prior employing franchises until no longer active (this does not apply to individuals who are employed by a franchise only in nominal and/or non-integral ways, such as in scouting, consulting, or public relations capacities).
    - Multiple Capacities: The totality of contributions and accomplishments with respect to a franchise are to be considered, and thus an individual can only be elected once by a franchise. For purposes of ballot size limits, an individual should be designated either a player or contributor based on what the voter perceives to be the individual's greater role with the franchise. An individual should not be listed as either a player or contributor merely to facilitate ballot space for the other category.
    - Relocations/Renaming: Franchises that have relocated and/or been renamed, may still consider and elect individuals that were with the franchise prior to the relocation/renaming.
    - Multiple Franchises: An individual may be considered and elected by multiple franchises.

    Franchise History
    - Founded: 1901 (AL for entire existence)
    - Former Locations/Names:

    Titles
    - World Series Championships: 4 (1935, 1945, 1968, 1984)
    - Pennants: 10 (1907, 1908, 1909, 1934, 1935, 1940, 1945, 1968, 1984, 2006)
    - Division Titles: 3 (1972, 1984, 1987)
    - Wild Card Berths: 1 (2006)

    Helpful Links
    The following links are all courtesy of baseball-reference.com, baseball-almanac.com, and wikipedia.com, and may assist voters in determining an individual's impact on this franchise:
    - Franchise Almanac
    - All Batters
    - All Pitchers
    - Batting Leaders
    - Pitching Leaders
    - Most Common Positional Starters
    - Most Common Pitching Staff Alignments
    - Managers
    - Notable Owners and Executives
    - Notable Broadcasters

    Award Recipients
    - MVP Recipients (9): Willie Hernandez (1984), Denny McLain (1968), Hal Newhouser (1945), Hal Newhouser (1944), Hank Greenberg (1940), Charlie Gehringer (1937), Hank Greenberg (1935), Mickey Cochrane (1934), Ty Cobb (1911)

    - Cy Young Recipients (3): Willie Hernandez (1984), Denny McLain (1969), Denny McLain (1968)

    - RoY Recipients (7): Justin Verlander (2006), Lou Whitaker (1978), Mark Fidrych (1976), Harvey Kuenn (1953)

    - Batting Triple Crown (1): Ty Cobb (1909)

    - Pitching Triple Crown (1): Hal Newhouser (1945)

    Multiple All Star Selections (no adjustment for double selections for 1959-1962)
    Code:
    Rank 	Player			Selections
    1	Al Kaline		18
    2	Bill Freehan		11
    3	Harvey Kuenn		8
    t4	Jim Bunning		7
    t4	Hal Newhouser		7
    t6	Tommy Bridges		6
    t6	Charlie Gehringer	6
    t6	Lance Parrish		6
    t6	Alan Trammell		6
    t10	Norm Cash		5
    t10	Hank Greenberg		5
    t10	George Kell		5
    t10	Lou Whitaker		5
    t10	Rudy York		5
    t15	Rocky Colavito		4
    t15	Travis Fryman		4
    t15	Willie Horton		4
    t15	Jack Morris		4
    t15	Ivan Rodriguez*		4
    t20	Cecil Fielder		3
    t20	Carlos Guillen*		3
    t20	Willie Hernandez	3
    t20	Frank Lary		3
    t20	Mickey Lolich		3
    t20	Dick McAuliffe		3
    t20	Denny McLain		3
    t20	Justin Verlander*	3
    t20	Vic Wertz		3
    t29	Hank Aguirre		2
    t29	Al Benton		2
    t29	Ray Boone		2
    t29	Mickey Cochrane		2
    t29	Hoot Evers		2
    t29	Mark Fidrych		2
    t29	Charlie Maxwell		2
    t29	Paul Mullin		2
    t29	Bobo Newsom		2
    t29	Magglio Ordonez*	2
    t29	Schoolboy Rowe		2
    t29	Birdie Tebbetts		2
    t29	Jason Thompson		2
    t29	Dizzy Trout		2
    	
    * Player is currently active
    Notable Managers (with at least 300 games managed with this franchise or at least one pennant win)
    Code:
    Manager			Games		Win %	WS Titles	Pennants	Div Titles	Wild Cards
    Sparky Anderson		2580		.516	1		1		2
    Bill Armour		305		.497
    Del Baker		778		.540
    Buddy Bell		461		.399
    Ty Cobb			933		.519
    Mickey Cochrane		600		.582	1		2
    Chuck Dressen		411		.539
    Phil Garner		330		.439
    Bucky Harris		1078		.481
    Ralph Houk		806		.450
    Fred Hutchinson		396		.397
    Hughie Jennings		2127		.538			3
    Jim Leyland		811		.523			1				1
    Billy Martin		452		.549					1
    George Moriarty		310		.489
    Steve O’Neill		933		.551	1		1
    Red Rolfe		539		.521
    Bob Scheffing		384		.548
    Mayo Smith		651		.560	1		1
    Alan Trammell		486		.383
    
    * Current manager
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  2. #2
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    Players
    Jim Bunning
    Donie Bush
    Bill Donovan
    Travis Fryman
    John Hiller
    Frank Lary
    Chet Lemon
    Dick McAuliffe
    Jack Morris
    Lance Parrish
    Tony Phillips
    Billy Rogell
    Dizzy Trout
    Virgil Trucks
    Bobby Veach

    Contributors:

    Mickey Cochrane
    George Kell
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  3. #3
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    Players
    Jim Bunning
    Donie Bush
    Hooks Dauss
    Bill Donovan
    John Hiller
    Fred Hutchinson
    Frank Lary
    Chet Lemon
    Dick McAuliffe
    Jack Morris
    George Mullin
    Lance Parrish
    Schoolboy Rowe
    Dizzy Trout
    Bobby Veach

    Contributors
    Del Baker
    Mickey Cochrane
    Jim Leyland
    Steve O'Neill
    Mayo Smith
    Last edited by Nerdlinger; 08-02-2011 at 05:32 PM.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! ***

  4. #4
    Players:

    Jim Bunning
    Donie Bush
    Hooks Dauss
    Bill Donovan
    Pete Fox
    Harvey Kuenn
    Chet Lemon
    Heinie Manush
    Dick McAuliffe
    Jack Morris
    Lance Parrish
    Mickey Tettleton
    Virgil Trucks
    Bobby Veach
    Rudy York

    Contributors:

    Mickey Cochrane

  5. #5
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    Position players, seasons with 4+ WAR
    Code:
    Rk                     Yrs From   To   Age
    1              Ty Cobb  18 1907 1925 20-38
    2    Charlie Gehringer  12 1927 1939 24-36
    3            Al Kaline  11 1955 1967 20-32
    4         Sam Crawford  10 1903 1915 23-35
    5        Alan Trammell   9 1980 1993 22-35
    6         Lou Whitaker   7 1979 1993 22-36
    7       Hank Greenberg   7 1934 1946 23-35
    8       Harry Heilmann   7 1921 1927 26-32
    9          Bobby Veach   6 1915 1922 27-34
    10       Tony Phillips   5 1990 1994 31-35
    11        Bill Freehan   5 1964 1972 22-30
    12          Donie Bush   5 1909 1917 21-29
    13      Miguel Cabrera   3 2009 2011 26-28
    14         Kirk Gibson   3 1984 1987 27-30
    15      Dick McAuliffe   3 1966 1968 26-28
    16           Norm Cash   3 1961 1965 26-30
    17         George Kell   3 1947 1950 24-27
    18      Roy Cullenbine   3 1945 1947 31-33
    19           Rudy York   3 1938 1943 24-29
    20        Billy Rogell   3 1933 1935 28-30
    4+ Pitching WAR
    Code:
    Rk                    Yrs From   To   Age
    1       Mickey Lolich   6 1969 1975 28-34
    2       Hal Newhouser   6 1944 1949 23-28
    3       Tommy Bridges   6 1933 1943 26-36
    4    Justin Verlander   4 2007 2011 24-28
    5         Jack Morris   4 1979 1987 24-32
    6         John Hiller   3 1973 1976 30-33
    7         Joe Coleman   3 1971 1973 24-26
    8        Denny McLain   3 1965 1969 21-25
    9         Jim Bunning   3 1957 1962 25-30
    10         Frank Lary   3 1956 1961 26-31
    11        Dizzy Trout   3 1943 1946 28-31
    12     Schoolboy Rowe   3 1934 1940 24-30
    13    Harry Coveleski   3 1914 1916 28-30
    14       Bill Donovan   3 1903 1908 26-31
    Last edited by Freakshow; 08-01-2011 at 12:55 PM.
    Eradicate, wipe out and abolish redundancy.

    Free El Duque!(and Mark Mulder) -- discover how the HOF rules are cheating this renowned member of Torre's Yankees dynasty and ask the HOF to include him on the ballot for the next BBWAA election.

  6. #6
    Playerse
    Donie Bush
    Cecil Fielder
    Kirk Gibson
    Mike Henneman
    John Hiller
    Willie Horton
    George Kell
    Harvey Kuenn
    Chet Lemon
    Dick McAuliffe
    Jack Morris
    Lance Parrish
    Dizzy Trout
    Bobby Veach
    Rudy York

    Contributors
    Walter Briggs
    Frank Navin

  7. #7
    Donie Bush
    George Kell
    Harvey Kuenn
    Dizzy Trout
    Fire Trucks
    Bobby Veach
    Rudy York

    As a Contributor:

    Mark Fidrych

  8. #8
    Mark "The Bird" Fidrych

  9. #9
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    Players
    Jim Bunning
    Donie Bush
    Hooks Dauss
    Kirk Gibson
    Chet Lemon
    Dick McAuliffe
    Lance Parrish
    Schoolboy Rowe
    Dizzy Trout
    Virgil Trucks
    Bobby Veach

    Contributors
    Mickey Cochrane
    George Kell

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJC View Post
    Players
    ...
    Bob Lemon
    .......
    I will assume you mean Chet Lemon, since Bob never played for the Tigers
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    I will assume you mean Chet Lemon, since Bob never played for the Tigers
    Bob Lemon, Chet Lemon, the point is I'm voting for a yellow citrus fruit.

    Thanks for catching that.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! ***

  12. #12
    OK, these threads don't seem to allow for arguments, but Mark Fidrych meant a lot to baseball in his brief (thank you Ralph Houk) career ... not just to Tigers fans, but to kids, and plenty of older guys who'd gotten fed up with the whole MLBCorp scene of the time too .. he belongs in!!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by westsidegrounds View Post
    OK, these threads don't seem to allow for arguments, but Mark Fidrych meant a lot to baseball in his brief (thank you Ralph Houk) career ... not just to Tigers fans, but to kids, and plenty of older guys who'd gotten fed up with the whole MLBCorp scene of the time too .. he belongs in!!!
    You're welcome to make the pitch for the Bird.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by westsidegrounds View Post
    OK, these threads don't seem to allow for arguments, but Mark Fidrych meant a lot to baseball in his brief (thank you Ralph Houk) career ... not just to Tigers fans, but to kids, and plenty of older guys who'd gotten fed up with the whole MLBCorp scene of the time too .. he belongs in!!!
    I'm definitely open to contributors for these teams. Please explain further. I know nothing about him.

  15. #15
    Players
    Jim Bunning
    Cecil Fielder
    Travis Fryman
    Willie Hernandez
    Willie Horton
    George Kell
    Harvey Kuenn
    Frank Lary
    Dick McAuliffe
    Denny McLain
    Jack Morris
    Lance Parrish
    Dizzy Trout
    Bobby Veach
    Rudy York

    Contributors
    Mickey Cochrane
    Frank Navin
    Steve O'Neill
    Mayo Smith
    Ty Tyson

  16. #16
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    Fidrych was a sensation, I know that. He pitched well for a time, but his arm went, quite possibly due to overuse. Now, I'm not a Detroit area guy, but it's hard to persuade me that just what he did as a player was enough. I don't know much about his post playing days, so maybe that would help.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  17. #17
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    We've gotten to eight voters, so that's one criteria for another round met. The others are more about having a decent prospect of electing somebody if that part of the ballot is run again (short ballots, how close the unelected guys are, things like that).
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  18. #18
    Players
    Rocky Colavito
    Mark Fidrych
    Cecil Fielder
    Kirk Gibson
    Willie Hernandez
    Willie Horton
    George Kell
    Chet Lemon
    Denny McLain
    Jack Morris
    Lance Parrish
    Dizzy Trout
    Virgil Trucks
    Bobby Veach
    Rudy York

    Contributors
    Mickey Cochrane
    Steve O'Neill
    Mayo Smith

    A note on Fidrych: the stats aren't there, I know. But he was such a character. Even though I never saw him pitch in person, I heard stories, and his rookie card is one of the favorite cards of my collection because he seems more human than most baseball players.

    A note on Horton: He is the only player for the Tigers who has his number retired that was not elected to the BBF Tigers HOF. I didn't vote for him last round either (shame on me).

  19. #19
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    This election is over. Official results to follow.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  20. #20
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    Here are the official results--the elected ones are those above the line.

    Players
    8 Veach, Bobby
    7 Parrish, Lance
    7 Trout, Dizzy
    ================
    6 Bush, Donie
    6 Lemon, Chet
    6 McAuliffe, Dick
    6 Morris, Jack
    5 Bunning, Jim
    5 Trucks, Virgil
    5 York, Rudy
    4 Kuenn, Harvey
    3 Dauss, Hooks
    3 Donovan, Bill
    3 Fielder, Cecil
    3 Gibson, Kirk
    3 Hiller, John
    3 Horton, Willie
    3 Lary, Frank
    2 Fidrych, Mark
    2 Fryman, Travis
    2 Hernandez, Willie
    2 McLain, Denny
    2 Rowe, Schoolboy
    1 Colavito, Rocky
    1 Fox, Pete
    1 Henneman, Mike
    1 Hutchinson, Fred
    1 Manush, Heinie
    1 Mullin, George
    1 Phillips, Tony
    1 Rogell, Billy
    1 Tettleton, Mickey

    Contributors:
    6 Cochrane, Mickey
    ================
    3 O'Neill, Steve
    3 Smith, Mayo
    2 Navin, Frank
    1 Baker, Dell
    1 Briggs, Walter
    1 Fidrych, Mark
    1 Leyland, Jim
    1 Tyson, Ty


    Also elected on a combination basis is George Kell

    I'd say we're done with the contributors, but I'll give the players another shot.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  21. #21
    I am very surprised that there is a strong chance there will be a Tigers HOF that DOES NOT include Jack Morris. Wow!

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