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Thread: Ranking the HoF Players: 6-10

  1. #1

    Ranking the HoF Players: 6-10

    Project Summary: To rank the worthiness of the players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame from most worthy to least worthy.

    Election Format: Voters will submit ballots ranking their 10 most worthy remaining Hall of Fame players in order of worthiness. Each first place vote will be worth 10 points, with each successive rank being worth one point less than the previous rank, ending in a tenth place vote being worth 1 point. Players will also receive one additional point for each ballot they are listed on and players must be listed on at least three ballots in order to be elected. The five players with the highest support at the end of each election will be elected in the order of their support. Elections will last approximately seven days.
    - Tiebreakers: In the event of a tie among players at the end of an election, the first tiebreaker will number of first place votes in that election. The second tiebreaker will be total number of ballot appearances in that election. In the event that there remains a tie, there will be a three day run-off by poll. Players that lose in a run-off will slot into the next ranking spot.

    Factors to Consider: As this project focuses in players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame, subjective qualities beyond just statistics can be considered in determining a player's relative worthiness.

    Player Eligibility: Only players that have been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame as players are eligible, including Negro League players and 19th Century players. A complete list of individuals that have been inducted as players is available at the National Baseball Hall of Fame's website, and is recreated below along with each player's corresponding BBF Rank as determined by this project:

    Results
    1) Babe Ruth
    2) Willie Mays
    3) Ty Cobb
    4) Ted Williams
    5) Hank Aaron

    Master List
    Code:
    Player				BBF Rank
    Hank Aaron			5
    Grover Alexander
    Roberto Alomar
    Cap Anson
    Luis Aparicio
    Luke Appling
    Richie Ashburn
    Earl Averill
    Frank Baker
    Dave Bancroft
    Ernie Banks
    Jake Beckley
    Cool Papa Bell
    Johnny Bench
    Chief Bender
    Yogi Berra
    Bert Blyleven
    Wade Boggs
    Jim Bottomley
    Lou Boudreau
    Roger Bresnahan
    George Brett
    Lou Brock
    Dan Brouthers
    Mordecai Brown
    Ray Brown
    Willard Brown
    Jim Bunning
    Jesse Burkett
    Roy Campanella
    Rod Carew
    Max Carey
    Steve Carlton
    Gary Carter
    Orlando Cepeda
    Frank Chance
    Oscar Charleston
    Jack Chesbro
    Fred Clarke
    John Clarkson
    Roberto Clemente
    Ty Cobb				3
    Mickey Cochrane
    Eddie Collins
    Jimmy Collins
    Earle Combs
    Roger Connor
    Andy Cooper
    Stan Coveleski
    Sam Crawford
    Jo Cronin
    Kiki Cuyler
    Ray Dandridge
    George Davis
    Andre Dawson
    Leon Day
    Dizzy Dean
    Ed Delahanty
    Bill Dickey
    Martin Dihigo
    Joe DiMaggio
    Larry Doby
    Bobby Doerr
    Don Drysdale
    Hugh Duffy
    Dennis Eckersley
    Johnny Evers
    Buck Ewing
    Red Faber
    Bob Feller
    Rick Ferrell
    Rollie Fingers
    Carlton Fisk
    Elmer Flick
    Whitey Ford
    Bill Foster
    Nellie Fox
    Jimmie Foxx
    Frankie Frisch
    Pud Galvin
    Lou Gehrig
    Charlie Gehringer
    Bob Gibson
    Josh Gibson
    Lefty Gomez
    Joe Gordon
    Goose Goslin
    Rich Gossage
    Frank Grant
    Hank Greenberg
    Burleigh Grimes
    Lefty Grove
    Tony Gwynn
    Chick Hafey
    Jesse Haines
    Billy Hamilton
    Gabby Hartnett
    Harry Heilmann
    Rickey Henderson
    Billy Herman
    Pete Hill
    Harry Hooper
    Rogers Hornsby
    Waite Hoyt
    Carl Hubbell
    Catfish Hunter
    Monte Irvin
    Reggie Jackson
    Travis Jackson
    Ferguson Jenkins
    Hugh Jennings
    Judy Johnson
    Walter Johnson
    Addie Joss
    Al Kaline
    Tim Keefe
    Willie Keeler
    George Kell
    Joe Kelley
    George Kelly
    King Kelly
    Harmon Killebrew
    Ralph Kiner
    Chuck Klein
    Sandy Koufax
    Nap Lajoie
    Tony Lazzeri
    Bob Lemon
    Buck Leonard
    Freddie Lindstrom
    Pop Lloyd
    Ernie Lombard
    Ted Lyons
    Biz Mackey
    Mickey Mantle
    Heinie Manush
    Rabbit Maranville
    Juan Marichal
    Rube Marquard
    Eddie Mathews
    Christy Mathewson
    Willie Mays			2
    Bill Mazeroski
    Tommy McCarthy
    Willie McCovey
    Joe McGinnity
    Bid McPhee
    Joe Medwick
    Jose Mendez
    Johnny Mize
    Paul Molitor
    Joe Morgan
    Eddie Murray
    Stan Musial
    Hal Newhouser
    Kid Nichols
    Phil Niekro
    Jim O’Rourke
    Mel Ott
    Satchel Paige
    Jim Palmer
    Herb Pennock
    Tony Perez
    Gaylord Perry
    Eddie Plank
    Kirby Puckett
    Charles Radbourn
    Pee Wee Reese
    Jim Rice
    Sam Rice
    Cal Ripken
    Eppa Rixey
    Phil Rizzuto
    Robin Roberts
    Brooks Robinson
    Frank Robinson
    Jackie Robinson
    Bullet Rogan
    Edd Roush
    Red Ruffing
    Amos Rusie
    Babe Ruth			1
    Nolan Ryan
    Ryne Sandberg
    Louis Santop
    Ray Schalk
    Mike Schmidt
    Red Schoendienst
    Tom Seaver
    Joe Sewell
    Al Simmons
    George Sisler
    Enos Slaughter
    Hilton Smith
    Ozzie Smith
    Duke Snider
    Warren Spahn
    Tris Speaker
    Willie Stargell
    Turkey Stearnes
    Bruce Sutter
    Mule Suttles
    Don Sutton
    Ben Taylor
    Bill Terry
    Sam Thompson
    Joe Tinker
    Cristobal Torriente
    Pie Traynor
    Dazzy Vance
    Arky Vaughan
    Rube Waddell
    Honus Wagner
    Bobby Wallace
    Ed Walsh
    Lloyd Waner
    Paul Waner
    John Ward
    Mickey Welch
    Willie Wells
    Zack Wheat
    Hoyt Wilhelm
    Billy Williams
    Joe Williams
    Ted Williams			4
    Vic Willis
    Hack Wilson
    Jud Wilson
    Dave Winfield
    Early Wynn
    Carl Yastrzemski
    Cy Young
    Ross Youngs
    Robin Yount
    Last edited by DoubleX; 08-16-2011 at 09:01 AM.

  2. #2
    1) Jackie Robinson - 10 points
    2) Honus Wagner - 9 points
    3) Walter Johnson - 8 points
    4) Lou Gehrig - 7 points
    5) Roberto Clemente - 6 points
    6) Cy Young - 5 points
    7) Mickey Mantle - 4 points
    8) Stan Musial - 3 points
    9) Joe DiMaggio - 2 points
    10) Cap Anson - 1 point

  3. #3
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    1. Rogers Hornsby
    2. Lou Gehrig
    3. Walter Johnson
    4. Joe DiMaggio
    5. Honus Wagner
    6. Tom Seaver
    7. Mickey Mantle
    8. Stan Musial
    9. Johnny Bench
    10. Cy Young

  4. #4
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    1. Honus Wagner
    2. Mickey Mantle
    3. Josh Gibson
    4. Walter Johnson
    5. Tris Speaker
    6. Roger Hornsby
    7. Cy Young
    8. Oscar Charleston
    9. Stan Musial
    10. Lou Gehrig
    Last edited by Brad Harris; 08-16-2011 at 05:00 PM.
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  5. #5
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    1. Honus Wagner
    2. Mickey Mantle
    3. Walter Johnson
    4. Roger Hornsby
    5. Jackie Robinson
    6. Cy Young
    7. Stan Musial
    8. Lou Gehrig
    9. Joe Dimaggio
    10. Lefty Grove
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  6. #6
    1. Frank Robinson
    2. Honus Wagner
    3. Walter Johnson
    4. Jackie Robinson
    5. Lou Gehrig
    6. Cy Young
    7. Stan Musial
    8. Josh Gibson
    9. Mickey Mantle
    10. Rogers Hornsby

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Posts
    2,221
    1 Honus Wagner
    2 Jackie Robinson
    3 Walter Johnson
    4 Roger Hornsby
    5 Cy Young
    6 Lou Gehrig
    7 Mickey Mantle
    8 Stan Musial
    9 Joe Dimaggio
    10 Grover Cleveland Alexander

  8. #8
    1. Stan Musial - 10
    2. Rogers Hornsby - 9
    3. Honus Wagner - 8
    4. Lou Gehrig - 7
    5. Walter Johnson - 6
    6. Mickey Mantle - 5
    7. Tris Speaker - 4
    8. Cy Young- 3
    9. Pop Lloyd - 2
    10. Napoleon Lajoie - 1

  9. #9
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    Two suggestions:
    1) provide a link to the previous election;
    2) provide an alphabetical list of inductees.

    My ballot:
    1. Wagner
    2. J Robinson
    3. Mantle
    4. W. Johnson
    5. J. Gibson
    6. Hornsby
    7. Gehrig
    8 Speaker
    9. Musial
    10. Charleston
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    Two suggestions:
    1) provide a link to the previous election;
    2) provide an alphabetical list of inductees.
    I agree, both of these would be helpful. I'll look into adding when I have some time. Thanks.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX View Post
    I agree, both of these would be helpful. I'll look into adding when I have some time. Thanks.
    I found your link provided #2 nicely. (Link lost in this pasted copy)

    "A complete list of individuals that have been inducted as players is available at the National Baseball Hall of Fame's website."

  12. #12
    1) Walter Johnson
    2) Honus Wagner
    3) Lou Gehrig
    4) Cy Young
    5) Stan Musial
    6) Mickey Mantle
    7) Oscar Charleston
    8) Joe Dimaggio
    9) Josh Gibson
    10) Lefty Grove

    Working on next:
    Jackie Robinson
    Speaker
    Hornsby
    Alexander
    Anson
    Mathewson
    Collins
    Seaver
    Paige
    Last edited by brett; 08-16-2011 at 09:22 AM.

  13. #13
    1. Honus Wagner
    2. Walter Johnson
    3. Josh Gibson
    4. Satchel Paige
    5. Lou Gehrig
    6. Mickey Mantle
    7. Tom Seaver
    8. Stan Musial
    9. Rogers Hornsby
    10. Mike Schmidt

  14. #14
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    1) Honus Wagner
    2) Walter Johnson
    3) Stan Musial
    4) Mickey Mantle
    5) Oscar Charleston
    6) Tris Speaker
    7) Eddie Collins
    8) Rogers Hornsby
    9) Lou Gehrig
    10) Josh Gibson
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CandlestickBum View Post
    I found your link provided #2 nicely. (Link lost in this pasted copy)

    "A complete list of individuals that have been inducted as players is available at the National Baseball Hall of Fame's website."
    I'd like to see a list of who we elected alphabetically and who is still available alphabetically once we get past the top 25 or so. It would help us keep track of who is eligible and who we already ranked.

  16. #16
    I have to say, I'm really amazed by how few ballots Jackie Robinson has appeared on. Historically, there are very few players who are significant as Robinson. Sure, there is some arbitrariness to the fact that he was the first, but the fact remains that he was the first and excelled with grace. As I said last time, there's a good reason that statutes of Robinson, Clemente, and Gehrig have been selected to greet every visitor at the entrance of the Hall of Fame.

  17. #17
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    Yeah, you've got a point. If there's any player whose on-field stats are irrelevant, it's Jackie. Since that's what you're driving at with this project, I'll adjust.

    1. Honus Wagner (10)
    2. Josh Gibson (9)
    3. Walter Johnson (8)
    4. Jackie Robinson (7)
    5. Lefty Grove (6)
    6. Pete Alexander (5)
    7. Eddie Collins (4)
    8. Tris Speaker (3)
    9. Stan Musial (2)
    10. Tom Seaver (1)

  18. #18
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    Blog Entries
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    1. Wagner
    2. Walter Johnson
    3. Gehrig
    4. Jackie Robinson
    5. Musial
    6. Satchel Paige
    7. Cy Young
    8. Speaker
    9. Hornsby
    10. Mathewson

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX View Post
    I have to say, I'm really amazed by how few ballots Jackie Robinson has appeared on. Historically, there are very few players who are significant as Robinson. Sure, there is some arbitrariness to the fact that he was the first, but the fact remains that he was the first and excelled with grace. As I said last time, there's a good reason that statutes of Robinson, Clemente, and Gehrig have been selected to greet every visitor at the entrance of the Hall of Fame.
    Agreed. I feel like people are just reverting back to their usual "best players" rankings and removing people who aren't in the HoF from their lists.

    1. Jackie Robinson - 10 Points, Ballot # 2 (Most recognizable name outside of Ruth & Young. His impact is obviously still felt today and reaches far beyond baseball)
    2. Cy Young - 9 Points, Ballot # 2 (His name is synonymous with great pitching. His record of wins is the most untouchable in sports.)
    3. Grover Cleveland Alexander - 8 Points, Ballot #2 (One of the top 3 pitchers of all-time IMHO, deserves a spot in the top ten for that alone)
    4. Roberto Clemente - 7 Points, Ballot #2 (Everything stated by DX)
    5. Cal Ripken Jr. - 6 Points, Ballot #2 (You can call him saving baseball a myth, but there are plenty of myths about old-timers still propagated around. Plus, no recent hall of famer is near Cal's level of fame)
    6. Rogers Hornsby - 5 Points, Ballot #1 (Greatest 2B of all time. Still known today as the man all 2B are judged by).
    7. Honus Wagner - 4 Points, Ballot #1 (Everything I said about Hornsby except at SS)
    8. John Montgomery Ward - 3 Points, Ballot #1 (Founded Players Union and Players League)
    9. Cap Anson - 2 Points, Ballot #1 (Greatest player of the 19th century).
    10. King Kelly - 1 Point, Ballot #1 (Huge innovator for the game. Arguably baseball's first super-star)
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX View Post
    I have to say, I'm really amazed by how few ballots Jackie Robinson has appeared on. Historically, there are very few players who are significant as Robinson. Sure, there is some arbitrariness to the fact that he was the first, but the fact remains that he was the first and excelled with grace. As I said last time, there's a good reason that statutes of Robinson, Clemente, and Gehrig have been selected to greet every visitor at the entrance of the Hall of Fame.
    I'd put him 15th to 20th counting Negro Leaguers for significance. The thing is that if baseball had not been made a national passion by by the great players that came before Robinson, then his accomplishement becomes less significant. Robinson, Clemente and Gehrig are viewed as baseball's martyrs, and they also serve as icons for black, hispanic and white baseball players. I also want to give proper credit to Gibson, Charleston, and Paige who didn't have the chance to be first. They magnified the importance of having someone be the first, so while he is great, he is a kind of glue that binds the Negro league greats, the early MLB greats, and the great players who came after him-but not standing at the head of them in my opinion.

  21. #21
    Counting Robinson's pioneering role, he is around #16 in my rankings behind Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige and Oscar Charleston.

  22. #22
    1) Walter Johnson (10)
    2) Cy Young (9)
    3) Christy Mathewson (8)
    4) Lou Gehrig (7)
    5) Stan Musial (6)
    6) Honus Wagner (5)
    7) Tris Speaker (4)
    8) Mickey Mantle (3)
    9) Grover Cleveland Alexander (2)
    10) Tom Seaver (1)
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  23. #23
    1. Jackie Robinson
    2. Honus Wagner
    3. Cy Young
    4. Lou Gehrig
    5. Walter Johnson

    6. Stan Musial
    7. Josh Gibson
    8. Mickey Mantle
    9. Cap Anson
    10. Joe DiMaggio

  24. #24
    1) Wagner, Honus
    2) Johnson, Walter
    3) Gibson, Josh
    4) Speaker, Tris
    5) Mantle, Mickey
    6) Young, Cy
    7) Hornsby, Rogers
    8) Musial, Stan
    9) Gehrig, Lou
    10) Robinson, Jackie
    Last edited by Jar of Flies; 08-16-2011 at 05:18 PM.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by brett View Post
    Robinson, Clemente and Gehrig are viewed as baseball's martyrs, and they also serve as icons for black, hispanic and white baseball players..
    But that's exactly the point - they are icons. Their fame transcended the sport and they all represent something greater that millions can easily relate and aspire to. Yeah, Paige, Gibson, and Charleston may have been better players than Robinson and may have been more famous had any of them been the first, but the simple fact remains that Robinson was the first and in being the first, he has taken on much greater level of fame and symbolism. That plain reality cannot be denied. Robinson was handpicked as the first for a reason, and performed with grace in every sense. His moment, which is undeniably his moment, is a great and pivotal moment in the nation's history because of how important baseball was and because of how he performed. Sure, if it wasn't him, it would have eventually been someone else, but it was him. To pass him over is to deny his massive historical importance beyond just his individual baseball skills, IMO.

    I think a similar argument goes for Clemente who I anticipate being very underrated in these rankings. Purely on his achievements as a player, maybe Clemente cracks my top 50, but in this election, where subjective factors come into play, Clemente's status as an "icon" as you say, is undeniable and inspirational to an entire population that has embraced the game. Someone like Tris Speaker was a much better player, but Clemente is a hero to far many more than Speaker likely ever was or will be, and that should count for something here. Baseball, and particularly the Hall of Fame, is in many ways about honoring heroes, icons if you will, individuals who seem to embody what is great about the game and perhaps beyond, and Clemente fits that criteria perfectly, IMO.

    EDIT: In re-reading your post, I would expect you to only be voting for the likes of Cap Anson, King Kelly, Jim O'Rourke, and other early greats, as the game would not have been the National Pastime if not for them. If not for their early stardom and influence in the game, there would be not Ruth, no Mays, no Aaron, no Wagner, and so forth.
    Last edited by DoubleX; 08-16-2011 at 04:05 PM.

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