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Thread: Ranking the HoF Players: 26-30

  1. #1

    Ranking the HoF Players: 26-30

    Project Summary: To rank the worthiness of the players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame from most worthy to least worthy.

    Election Format: Voters will submit ballots ranking their 10 most worthy remaining Hall of Fame players in order of worthiness. Each first place vote will be worth 10 points, with each successive rank being worth one point less than the previous rank, ending in a tenth place vote being worth 1 point. Players will also receive one additional point for each ballot they are listed on and players must be listed on at least three ballots in order to be elected. The five players with the highest support at the end of each election will be elected in the order of their support. Elections will last approximately seven days.
    - Tiebreakers: In the event of a tie among players at the end of an election, the first tiebreaker will number of first place votes in that election. The second tiebreaker will be total number of ballot appearances in that election. In the event that there remains a tie, there will be a three day run-off by poll. Players that lose in a run-off will slot into the next ranking spot.

    Factors to Consider: As this project focuses on players inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame, subjective qualities beyond just statistics should be taken into consideration in determining a player's relative worthiness. In that vein, the voting guidelines that the BBWAA is to follow in actual National Baseball Hall of Fame elections, may be instructive (though not necessarily determinative in this project): "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

    Player Eligibility: Only players that have been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame as players are eligible, including Negro League players and 19th Century players. A complete list of individuals that have been inducted as players is available at the National Baseball Hall of Fame's website, and is recreated below along with each player's corresponding BBF Rank as determined by this project:

    Results
    1) Babe Ruth
    2) Willie Mays
    3) Ty Cobb
    4) Ted Williams
    5) Hank Aaron
    6) Honus Wagner
    7) Walter Johnson
    8) Lou Gehrig
    9) Cy Young
    10) Stan Musial
    11) Mickey Mantle
    12) Rogers Hornsby
    13) Jackie Robinson
    14) Tris Speaker
    15) Josh Gibson
    16) Eddie Collins
    17) Satchel Paige
    18) Grover Alexander
    19) Frank Robinson
    20) Joe DiMaggio
    21) Oscar Charleston
    22) Mike Schmidt
    23) Lefty Grove
    24) Tom Seaver
    25) Cap Anson

    Master List
    Code:
    Player				BBF Rank
    Hank Aaron			5
    Grover Alexander		18
    Roberto Alomar
    Cap Anson			25
    Luis Aparicio
    Luke Appling
    Richie Ashburn
    Earl Averill
    Frank Baker
    Dave Bancroft
    Ernie Banks
    Jake Beckley
    Cool Papa Bell
    Johnny Bench
    Chief Bender
    Yogi Berra
    Bert Blyleven
    Wade Boggs
    Jim Bottomley
    Lou Boudreau
    Roger Bresnahan
    George Brett
    Lou Brock
    Dan Brouthers
    Mordecai Brown
    Ray Brown
    Willard Brown
    Jim Bunning
    Jesse Burkett
    Roy Campanella
    Rod Carew
    Max Carey
    Steve Carlton
    Gary Carter
    Orlando Cepeda
    Frank Chance
    Oscar Charleston		21
    Jack Chesbro
    Fred Clarke
    John Clarkson
    Roberto Clemente
    Ty Cobb				3
    Mickey Cochrane
    Eddie Collins			16
    Jimmy Collins
    Earle Combs
    Roger Connor
    Andy Cooper
    Stan Coveleski
    Sam Crawford
    Jo Cronin
    Kiki Cuyler
    Ray Dandridge
    George Davis
    Andre Dawson
    Leon Day
    Dizzy Dean
    Ed Delahanty
    Bill Dickey
    Martin Dihigo	
    Joe DiMaggio			20
    Larry Doby
    Bobby Doerr
    Don Drysdale
    Hugh Duffy
    Dennis Eckersley
    Johnny Evers
    Buck Ewing
    Red Faber
    Bob Feller
    Rick Ferrell
    Rollie Fingers
    Carlton Fisk
    Elmer Flick
    Whitey Ford
    Bill Foster
    Nellie Fox
    Jimmie Foxx
    Frankie Frisch
    Pud Galvin
    Lou Gehrig			8
    Charlie Gehringer
    Bob Gibson
    Josh Gibson			15
    Lefty Gomez
    Joe Gordon
    Goose Goslin
    Rich Gossage
    Frank Grant
    Hank Greenberg
    Burleigh Grimes
    Lefty Grove			23
    Tony Gwynn
    Chick Hafey
    Jesse Haines
    Billy Hamilton
    Gabby Hartnett
    Harry Heilmann
    Rickey Henderson
    Billy Herman
    Pete Hill
    Harry Hooper
    Rogers Hornsby			12
    Waite Hoyt
    Carl Hubbell
    Catfish Hunter
    Monte Irvin
    Reggie Jackson
    Travis Jackson
    Ferguson Jenkins
    Hugh Jennings
    Judy Johnson
    Walter Johnson			7
    Addie Joss
    Al Kaline
    Tim Keefe
    Willie Keeler
    George Kell
    Joe Kelley
    George Kelly
    King Kelly
    Harmon Killebrew
    Ralph Kiner
    Chuck Klein
    Sandy Koufax
    Nap Lajoie
    Tony Lazzeri
    Bob Lemon
    Buck Leonard
    Freddie Lindstrom
    Pop Lloyd
    Ernie Lombard
    Ted Lyons
    Biz Mackey
    Mickey Mantle			11
    Heinie Manush
    Rabbit Maranville
    Juan Marichal
    Rube Marquard
    Eddie Mathews
    Christy Mathewson
    Willie Mays			2
    Bill Mazeroski
    Tommy McCarthy
    Willie McCovey
    Joe McGinnity
    Bid McPhee
    Joe Medwick
    Jose Mendez
    Johnny Mize
    Paul Molitor
    Joe Morgan
    Eddie Murray
    Stan Musial			10
    Hal Newhouser
    Kid Nichols
    Phil Niekro
    Jim O’Rourke
    Mel Ott
    Satchel Paige			17
    Jim Palmer
    Herb Pennock
    Tony Perez
    Gaylord Perry
    Eddie Plank
    Kirby Puckett
    Charles Radbourn
    Pee Wee Reese
    Jim Rice
    Sam Rice
    Cal Ripken
    Eppa Rixey
    Phil Rizzuto
    Robin Roberts
    Brooks Robinson
    Frank Robinson			19
    Jackie Robinson			13
    Bullet Rogan
    Edd Roush
    Red Ruffing
    Amos Rusie
    Babe Ruth			1
    Nolan Ryan
    Ryne Sandberg
    Louis Santop
    Ray Schalk
    Mike Schmidt			22
    Red Schoendienst
    Tom Seaver			24
    Joe Sewell
    Al Simmons
    George Sisler
    Enos Slaughter
    Hilton Smith
    Ozzie Smith
    Duke Snider
    Warren Spahn
    Tris Speaker			14
    Willie Stargell
    Turkey Stearnes
    Bruce Sutter
    Mule Suttles
    Don Sutton
    Ben Taylor
    Bill Terry
    Sam Thompson
    Joe Tinker
    Cristobal Torriente
    Pie Traynor
    Dazzy Vance
    Arky Vaughan
    Rube Waddell
    Honus Wagner			6
    Bobby Wallace
    Ed Walsh
    Lloyd Waner
    Paul Waner
    John Ward
    Mickey Welch
    Willie Wells
    Zack Wheat
    Hoyt Wilhelm
    Billy Williams
    Joe Williams
    Ted Williams			4
    Vic Willis
    Hack Wilson
    Jud Wilson
    Dave Winfield
    Early Wynn
    Carl Yastrzemski
    Cy Young			9
    Ross Youngs
    Robin Yount
    Links to Previous Elections
    Election 1-5
    Election 6-10
    Election 11-15
    Election 16-20
    Election 21- 25

  2. #2
    1) Roberto Clemente
    2) Christy Mathewson
    3) Rickey Henderson
    4) Johnny Bench
    5) Jimmie Foxx
    6) Yogi Berra
    7) Napoleon Lajoie
    8) Joe Morgan
    9) Warren Spahn
    10) Cal Ripken Jr

  3. #3
    1) Lajoie, Nap
    2) Morgan, Joe
    3) Henderson, Rickey
    4) Ott, Mel
    5) Ripken, Cal
    6) Henry Lloyd, John
    7) Foxx, Jimmie
    8) Bench, Johnny
    9) Mathewson, Christy
    10) Spahn, Warren

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,191
    Blog Entries
    4
    1. Mathewson - 10
    2. Clemente - 9
    3. Lajoie - 8
    4. Greenberg - 7
    5. Monte Ward - 6
    6. Jimmie Foxx - 5
    7. Johnny Bench - 4
    8. Cal Ripken, Jr. - 3
    9. Warren Spahn - 2
    10. Pop Lloyd - 1

  5. #5
    1. Christy Mathewson
    2. Jimmie Foxx
    3. Mel Ott
    4. Pop Lloyd
    5. Napoleon Lajoie
    6. Warren Spahn
    7. George Brett
    8. Charlie Gehringer
    9. Dan Brouthers
    10. Wade Boggs

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    15,140
    Blog Entries
    34
    1. Joe Williams
    2. Joe Morgan
    3. Rickey Henderson
    4. Turkey Stearnes
    5. Mel Ott
    6. Bob Gibson
    7. Nap LaJoie
    8. Jimmie Foxx
    9. Kid Nichols
    10. Pop Lloyd
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
    Posts
    7,575
    1. Rickey Henderson (10)
    2. Christy Mathewson (9)
    3. Kid Nichols (8)
    4. Johnny Bench (7)
    5. Jimmie Foxx (6)
    6. Nap Lajoie (5)
    7. Mel Ott (4)
    8. Joe Morgan (3)
    9. Yogi Berra (2)
    10. Cal Ripken Jr. (1)
    Eddie Mathews
    Ed Delahanty
    George Brett
    Smokey Joe Williams
    Mickey Cochrane
    Al Kaline
    Charlie Gehringer
    Wade Boggs
    Roberto Clemente
    Warren Spahn
    Last edited by J W; 09-14-2011 at 06:54 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    mariners country
    Posts
    23,570
    1) Henderson
    2) Bench
    3) Berra
    4) Mathewson
    5) Morgan
    6) Spahn
    7) Brett
    8) Ripken
    9) Ward
    10) Lloyd

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Lima, Ohio
    Posts
    5,812
    1. Jimmie Foxx - 10
    2. Napoleon Lajoie - 9
    3. Rickey Henderson - 8
    4. Christy Mathewson - 7
    5. Roberto Clemente - 6
    6. Mel Ott - 5
    7. Cal Ripken - 4
    8. Warren Spahn - 3
    9. Kid Nichols - 2
    10. Joe Williams - 1
    Quote
    "A ballplayer has to just go out and be mean. You can't play half-heartedly. If you do, there's someone right over your shoulder that'll take your job away. If you don't do your job, what they're paying you for, why should they pay you? You just can't put in eight hours, that's what a lot of people don't realize about athletes. Very few people realize the pressure." Dave Kingman

  10. #10
    1. Christy Mathewson
    2. Warren Spahn
    3. Nap Lajoie
    4. Jimmie Foxx
    5. Mel Ott
    6. Johnny Bench
    7. Joe Morgan
    8. Pop Lloyd
    9. Rickey Henderson
    10. Yogi Berra

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
    Posts
    7,575
    Here's a name I'd like to discuss since he's appearing on many ballots now: Pop Lloyd. Recent data suggest that Lloyd was not quite the player he was billed to be; a bit of a compiler with no equivalent historic peak (though very very good for a long time). I've still got him fairly high, just behind Robin Yount and Dan Brouthers, and ahead of Eddie Murray and Carlton Fisk... but he's not ranked as highly on my list as others. It may seem like double-talk from the guy who backed Rickey Henderson but I really do see a dominating stretch from the Rickey.

    Lloyd does have a heck of a reputation however. Should I give him that and bump him up my list?
    Last edited by J W; 09-14-2011 at 09:39 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by J W View Post
    Here's a name I'd like to discuss since he's appearing on many ballots now: Pop Lloyd. Recent data suggest that Lloyd was not quite the player he was billed to be; a bit of a compiler with no equivalent historic peak (though very very good for a long time). I've still got him fairly high, just behind Robin Yount and Dan Brouthers, and ahead of Eddie Murray and Carlton Fisk... but he's not ranked as highly on my list as others. It may seem like double-talk from the guy who backed Rickey Henderson but I really do see a dominating stretch from the Rickey.

    Lloyd does have a heck of a reputation however. Should I give him that and bump him up my list?
    Personally I feel that Lloyd was clearly the third greatest Negro League position player. I am interested. If he was a compiler, what stats did he compile?

    Lloyd was ranked 25th among all position players in our last player ranking. I think he has a case for edging out Vaughan and Ripken as the #2 shortstop of all time. He had good "pop" and of course was compared to Wagner. I guess he was a compiler like Ripken, or Appling or Dahlen at shortstop, somewhere in that level AT LEAST for me. I rate him 26th among all position players but I trend toward shifting Negro Leaguers up and down as a group by 5-10 slots and I couldn't put him above that. I couldn't put him over George Brett, Joe Morgan, Jimmie Foxx, or Nap Lajoie or Mel Ott who we know so much more about.

    I certainly could put him ahead of Kaline, Yaz, Reggie, Crawford, and maybe even Boggs. Do your best but he's a 25-50 position player for me, tending toward the higher end. After Charleston, Gibson, Lloyd, Paige and Wood, I am not sure I can go for any Ne Leaguer for quite a while. It becomes more of a name recognition exercise for me then.
    Last edited by brett; 09-14-2011 at 09:54 AM.

  13. #13
    1) Christy Mathewson (10)
    2) Rickey Henderson (9)
    3) Jimmie Foxx (8)
    4) Kid Nichols (7)
    5) Napoleon Lajoie (6)
    6) Warren Spahn (5)
    7) George Brett (4)
    8) Cal Ripken, Jr. (3)
    9) John Clarkson (2)
    10) Jesse Burkett (1)
    Check out my stuff for sale on eBay! Autos of Heyward, Castro, Zimmermann, Brantley, Quentin, Borbon, Britton, Burgess, Weathers, Lotzkar & Main! Jersey cards of Fielder & Machado! 50 card lots of the Yankees, Red Sox, Braves, Dodgers, Cardinals and Tigers - starting bid only $0.50, each book for $30+! Plus a guide on how to get autographs...for free!

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  14. #14
    1) Bench
    2) Mathewson
    3) Foxx
    4) Lajoie
    5) Brett
    6) Morgan
    7) Ott
    8) Henderson
    9) Ripken
    10) SJ Williams

    Followed closely by:
    Berra
    Pop Lloyd
    Spahn
    S. J. Williams
    Bob Gibson
    Eddie Mathews
    Vaughan
    Koufax
    Carlton
    Feller
    Kaline

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
    Posts
    7,575
    Re: brett

    I've got Lloyd 40th among position players in the BOB project with only a handful of elections to go, so he'll only lose one or two more spots depending on how I slot the 'roiders. He is my 3rd highest rated negro/latin league position player as well... but I have both Turkey Stearnes and Buck Leonard fairly close to him before my gap starts. I do have him ranked ahead of Jackson and Crawford so, yes he is definitely amongst the second group of stars you mention.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,321
    01. Joe Morgan
    02. Jimmie Foxx
    03. Rickey Henderson
    04. Christy Mathewson
    05. Yogi Berra
    06. Johnny Bench
    07. Roberto Clemente
    08. Mel Ott
    09. Warren Spahn
    10. Pop Lloyd

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    mariners country
    Posts
    23,570
    my queue
    C: Bench, Berra, Cochrane*
    1B: Foxx, Greenberg*
    2B: Morgan, Lajoie*
    3B: Brett, Mathews
    SS: Ripken, Lloyd
    LF: Henderson, Stearnes, Yaz
    CF: Griffey, Hines
    RF: Jackson, Ott, Clemente*
    P: Mathewson, Spahn, Williams, Gibson, Feller*
    * = extra credit abve strict player merits

  18. #18
    1 - Rickey Henderson
    2 - Christy Mathewson
    3 - Cal Ripken Jr.
    4 - Nap Lajoie
    5 - Kid Nichols
    6 - Joe Morgan
    7 - Jimmie Foxx
    8 - Yogi Berra
    9 - Eddie Mathews
    10 - Monte Ward

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,067
    1. Clemente
    2. Mathewson
    3. Rickey Henderson
    4. Warren Spahn
    5. Johnny Bench
    6. Yogi Berra
    7. Jimmie Foxx
    8. Hank Greenberg
    9. Eddie Mathews
    10. Cal Ripken
    3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

    “I’m honored to go into the Baseball Hall of Fame with such a great group of men.” - Tom Glavine.

  20. #20
    Interesting that Feller is getting no mention at all. Well, Brett did mention him in his last post. Feller won 266 games while missing 4 1/2 prime seasons to WW2. He was the greatest strikeout pitcher of his era. Certainly in the 40s and 50s he was considered among the top 10 pitchers ever. On top of that he actually fought in WW2. In many ways in the 40s, 50s, 60s, and perhaps 70s he was viewed much like Ted Williams. Feller is one of those interesting blends of on field performance and off field persona that could/perhaps should push him up significantly higher than "raw" stats might.
    Last edited by BigRon; 09-14-2011 at 06:21 PM.

  21. #21
    1. Christy Mathewson
    2. Johnny Bench
    3. Jimmie Foxx
    4. Joe Morgan
    5. Warren Spahn
    6. Nap Lajoie
    7. Yogi Berra
    8. Rickey Henderson
    9. Pop Lloyd
    10. Mel Ott

    This is starting to get more difficult.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by BigRon View Post
    Interesting that Feller is getting no mention at all. Well, Brett did mention him in his last post. Feller won 266 games while missing 4 1/2 prime seasons to WW2. He was the greatest strikeout pitcher of his era. Certainly in the 40s and 50s he was considered among the top 10 pitchers ever. On top of that he actually fought in WW2. In many ways he was viewed much like Ted Williams. Feller is one of those interesting blends of on field performance and off field persona that could/perhaps should push him up significantly higher than "raw" stats might.
    Feller and Mize are in my next round of picks.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Section 232, Row 1, Seat 24, Miller Park, Miller Park Way
    Posts
    3,588
    1. Roberto Clemente - 10 Points, Ballot #6 (Everything stated by DX)
    2. Cal Ripken Jr. - 9 Points, Ballot #6 (You can call him saving baseball a myth, but there are plenty of myths about old-timers still propagated around. Plus, no recent hall of famer is near Cal's level of fame)
    3. John Montgomery Ward - 8 Points, Ballot #5 (Founded Players Union and Players League)
    4. King Kelly - 7 Points, Ballot #5 (Huge innovator for the game. Arguably baseball's first super-star)
    5. Yogi Berra - 6 Points, Ballot #3 (Arguably the greatest catcher to play the game; Known as much for playing baseball as much as he is for his "Yogi-isms")
    6. Hank Greenberg - 5 Points, Ballot #2 (SEE PVNICK)
    7. Christy Mathewson - 4 Point, Ballot #2 (Known as the Christian Gentleman; one of the games top 10 pitchers; died at a young age due to complications from a war-time accident; one of the first pitchers to popularize the screwball)
    8. Rickey Henderson - 3 Points, Ballot #1 (The Rickey; most prolific base-stealer of all time; one of baseballs biggest personalities in the last 30 years; SABR darling)
    9. Johnny Bench - 2 Points, Ballot #1 (Arguably the greatest catcher of all time; one of the most prolific members of The Big Red Machine)
    10. Warren Spahn - 1 Point, Ballot #1 (The winningest lefty of all time; when he retired, he was 3rd all-time in K's and 4th in IP)
    AL East Champions: 1981 1982
    AL Pennant: 1982
    NL Central Champions: 2011
    NL Wild Card: 2008

    "It was like coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don't think much of it; you know, we just don't recognize the significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, 'Well, there'll be other days.' I didn't realize that that was the only day." - Moonlight Graham

  24. #24
    Ballot:

    1. Yogi Berra
    2. King Kelly
    3. Johnny Bench
    4. Joe Williams
    5. Joe Morgan
    6. Rickey Henderson
    7. Cal Ripken
    8. Kid Nichols
    9. Napoleon Lajoie
    10. Christy Matthewson

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    D-town, MI
    Posts
    6,115
    Blog Entries
    9
    1 Joe Morgan
    2 Nap Lajoie
    3 Mel Ott
    4 Pop Lloyd
    5 Johnny Bench
    6 Rickey Henderson
    7 Jimmie Foxx
    8 Yogi Berra
    9 Cal Ripken
    10 Eddie Mathews
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