This is our seventy-second election in this project. The entire rules follow.
This election will end at 11:59:59 PM EDT on September 23, 2011
The prior election, and the ballots of the 2005 voters, are in this thread
Researcher/advocate/mod
This is our seventy-second election in this project. The entire rules follow.
This election will end at 11:59:59 PM EDT on September 23, 2011
The prior election, and the ballots of the 2005 voters, are in this thread
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Rules
1) BBF users in good standing may participate, provided they have not been banned from multiple projects in this forum. Anyone who has been told his or her votes will not count in more than one project in this forum will not have his or her vote counted unless he or she applies to the project manager for the right to vote and gets that request granted. However, if there is more than one vote being cast from any one computer or IP, it must be cleared in advance. Should there be unannounced multiple votes from the same IP, I will investigate the circumstances, and all user names involved may be barred from this project as a result, and all but one of the multiple usernames permanently banned from the site. I only anticipate exceptions for family members living in the same home, but I will entertain requests on other bases. Please note that I and the other mods who participate in the project have the capability of determining the IP from which posts come, and I for one intend to monitor same. I have had to deal with a single user manipulating a project with multiple votes, and I don't intend to repeat the experience.
2) Elections will require a 10 voter quorum. If we do not get ten voters and there are candidate(s) who would be elected no matter what the voters needed to make a quorum did, those candidate(s) will be inducted. Otherwise, no one will be inducted. Further, if we fail to elect a full complement of candidates for the ballot in question in two of any four consecutive elections, the portion(s) of the project failing to meet the election requirement will end. If, for instance, we're doing fine on the player end but not the contributor end, I would drop the contributor end under this rule.
3) We will start in 1936, just as Cooperstown did. For the first election (1936), voters will rank their top 20, taking 10. After that we will go to having voters rank their top 12 players. Points awarded 12-11-10, etc. We will take the top five through 1940, then top three players per year elected until 2010, then two per year. If a voter does not number his selections, I will try to get him/her to do so. If they do not do so before the end of the election period, I may in my sole discretion invalidate the ballot. I have included this provision in order to ease the process of recording the votes. On another point, I know, the 1936 backlog is huge--but that was a historical issue they couldn't avoid, so neither will we.
4) We will also have a contributor ballot, which will elect one a year through 1985, then one every three (3) years. Contributors will be ranked 1 through 5, with points awarded 5-4-3-2-1. Voters may choose to participate in either one of the ballots or both.
5) It is permissible to vote for a candidate on both the contributor and player lists.
6) You are allowed to change your ballot at any time the voting is open. However, if you change your ballot, you've got to notify me (jalbright) by PM or by a new post in the voting thread, or the changes likely will not be registered.
7) Players are eligible at the later of age 45 or the first year thereafter in which the player does not play. If the birthdate is not known, add five years to the first time the player misses a season and has less than 10 games the next season. There is an exception for early death, in which case the year of death plus two will be used if that yields an earlier date.
8) Contributors become eligible at age 65 or in the year of death plus two. whichever comes first.
9) Each election will run for approximately two weeks unless expressly altered by the project manager, contributors and players done simultaneously.
10) No one is excluded from being a candidate, regardless of the league they played in, except those elected in either the contributor or player ballots. At that point, they are removed from further consideration. If there are players who returned to the Negro Leagues or Japan after going to the majors, the departure from the majors will be their career end date for purposes of this project.
11) The standard for including a player on one's ballot is that the player must in the voter's opinion be among the very best eligible players (preferably the number voted on, but if a voter wishes to support someone they feel is 15th in a 12 person ballot instead of one of the top 12, it's too close for anyone to reasonably object. On the other hand, supporting the 25th best eligible candidate on a 12 person ballot is probably beyond the pale). I reserve the power to invalidate ballots which I do not feel are a reasonably knowledgeable, good faith effort to rank the players. One issue I am quite concerned about is that I do not want to see what clearly appear to be attempts to manipulate the ballot so as to elect a candidate. In isolation, I probably could live with this, but if it became a widely used tactic, the project would devolve into something I have no desire to be associated with. Moreover, I think that this position asks everyone else to cast legitimate votes so that you can manipulate the system to favor your pet candidates. I cannot accept that, as it strikes me as unfair to other voters. For example, you can't expect to favor even a legitimate HOF candidate like Bill Dahlen over Babe Ruth to get Dahlen elected without being asked to provide a reasonable justification for ranking Dahlen over Ruth. If you can provide a reasonable justification in that scenario, the ballot will stand. If not, you will be asked to make a change. I realize voters will sometimes have idiosyncratic choices, and I try to allow for that. However, a clear flouting of a consensus is apt to be met with a request that the ballot be justified pursuant to this rule. Certainly, a reasonable justification does not indicate in essence simply that you want Dahlen elected. Furthermore, if I invalidate multiple ballots by the same individual as failing to meet this rule, that individual will forever lose the right to have his/her ballots counted. Voters are encouraged to consider character, sportsmanship, and compliance with the rules and spirit of baseball in their rankings of players.
12) I will post lists of eligible players and contributors before each election. If you have a question about the eligibility of a candidate, please ask. I will provide a list of future eligibility dates as well.
13) My eligibility lists come from all persons in the BBF HOF, BBTF Hall of Merit, and Cooperstown, plus all persons getting a vote in a BBF HOF election in the past year and a half or in a BBWAA election. This is a relatively comprehensive list, and thus I must request that if you want another candidate included, you provide some justification for why said candidate is worthy of getting a vote in this project. The main area I think this might come into play is if a voter supports a person who was eligible for the final selections from the recent pre WWII or Negro League committees but not on my master list. That fact alone would serve as ample justification for putting said candidate on the list. We may learn more about Cuban ball or what have you and thus include others after a case is made for them, however. The contributor list is undoubtedly not as comprehensive, and this fact will be taken into consideration. For players, any request for a multiple time all-star in the all-star era will be approved. Players of that quality will generally be approved without much ado. However, when a player lacks that kind of qualification, I will likely ask for you to get a second from among our voters via a post in the current election thread. When in doubt, I will also require a second for suggested contributors. If a second is forthcoming, the player will be added. If not, the request will be rejected. I want to limit requests and seconds to players or contributors you actually might vote for.
14) Other than the sportsmanship and character issues, players are to be evaluated solely upon their play. I would prefer that if a player is qualified by his play standing alone that he be elected on that basis. However, a candidate may only be elected either as a contributor or a player, but not both. Contributors are the area where the entire body of work during his career in the sport, including his play, managing, scouting, executive, writing, broadcasting or other work in the sport is relevant. Contributors are to be ranked based on who the voter thinks is most worthy of induction into the Contributor group in this project.
15) Any ballot with two (2) or more spots unfilled with eligible candidates is invalid. In the event of the listing of ineligible names, I will try to notify the voter so that he/she can correct the ballot before the end of the voting period. If the change is made timely, it will count. If not, and there are two or more invalid names, the ballot will not be considered valid. If there is only one, the ineligible name will be stricken and all names after it on the affected ballot will be moved up one spot.
16) Any players listed beyond the 12th place for any ballot but the first (in which case it is 20th place) will be ignored. If more than one person is listed as tied for the last available place and the ballot is oversize, all names will be dropped, which may lead to the invalidation of the ballot.
17) Ties are not permitted in ballot listings. I reserve the right to invalidate ballots for use of ties in the rankings, be it within a single ballot or over the course of several ballots. If the voter does not correct such a listing voluntarily, except in the case of an oversize ballot tie for the last eligible place, if do not invalidate the ballot, I will choose the placement of the two "tied" candidates, generally preferring the candidate preferred by the other voters.
18) For any ties between candidates straddling the in/out line of selections, the first thing considered is the ranking of the candidates by the ballots cast. If there are more than two candidates tied, use a 2-1-0 or whatever is appropriate for the number of players tied system. If a voter does not list a candidate, he receives zero points in the tiebreaker procedure. Once one person separates from the tied group, restart with the remaining candidates until there are only as many candidates as the rules call for being elected. If they remain tied after this process, the candidate with the most votes received wins. If it is still tied after that, those with the most #1 votes as the next step, then the most #2 votes and so on to see if that breaks the tie. If not, we will induct all candidates who remain tied at that point.
19) One thing we're going to have to be aware of is the timeline in the case of at least a few contributors. Two which jump out at me are Buck O'Neill, 1976, and Branch Rickey, 1946. I intend to eventually vote for both men, but in 1946, Jackie Robinson was still in Montreal. Really, Branch should wait until at least 1947 after Jackie's success in the majors to get credit for that move. If you think Rickey belongs in the top 5 in 1946 without his role in breaking the color line, that's fine--but he shouldn't get credit for that important success until it actually happened. Buck O'Neill did some important things up until 1976, but after that he was in Ken Burns' Baseball and he was instrumental in the establishment of the Negro Leagues Hall of Fame (both occurred in or around 1994). If you think he belongs based on accomplishments before those two things, that's perfectly acceptable, but please don't credit him with them before they actually happened.
20) I will maintain a thread of the project's history and rules which will provide a listing of all elected candidates.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The players who become eligible in 2007 are:
The contributors who become eligible in 2007 are:Code:Daulton , Darren Davis , Eric Drabek , Doug Fernandez , Sid Fernandez , Tony Finley , Chuck Mitchell , Kevin Montgomery , Jeff Myers , Randy Steinbach , Terry Strawberry , Darryl Tartabull , Danny
Code:Fregosi , Jim Lanier , Hal
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The 2006 player candidates who were not elected had these results in that election:
Code:Player…………………. votes pts Trouppe, Quincy 8 53 Brock, Lou 5 49 Bando, Sal 6 45 Childs , Cupid 8 45 Sheckard , J 6 44 Aparicio, Luis 5 43 Rixey, Eppa 5 40 Mullane , Tony 6 37 Beckley , Jake 4 30 Shocker, Urban 5 29 Pierce, Billy 5 26 Dandridge, Ray 4 24 Puckett, Kirby 3 24 Berger , Wally 3 22 Gomez, Lefty 2 16 Grimes , B 2 14 Lundy , Dick 2 14 Nettles, Graig 4 13 Evans, Darrell 2 11 Klein, Chuck 1 11 Sewell , Joe 1 11 Duffy , Hugh 2 10 Fingers, Rollie 1 10 Ciccotte, Eddie 1 9 Leach , Tommy 1 9 Randolph, W 3 9 Howard, Frank 1 7 Perez, Tony 2 7 Welch, Mickey 1 7 Cepeda, Orlando 1 6 Guidry Ron 1 5 Bonds, Bobby 1 4 Munson, Thurman 1 4 Newcombe, Don 1 4 Sutter, Bruce 2 4 Evers, Johnny 1 3 Johnson, Bob 1 3 Campaneris, B 1 2 Murphy, Dale 1 2 Quisenberry, D 2 2 Jones, Charley 1 1 Smith, Chino 1 1
The 2006 contributor candidates who were not elected had these results in that election:
I strongly suggest that you pay attention to this list, as the leaders of the holdovers are likely to join any strong newcomer candidates as the leaders for winning induction.Code:Contributor…….. votes pts Evans, Billy 5 17 Neft, David 5 15 Schuerhotlz, J 4 13 Steinbrenner, G 5 12 Caray, Harry 2 9 Mizuhara, S 4 7 Harvey, Doug 3 5 Jobe, Frank 1 5 Pompez, Alex 4 5 Smith, Red 1 5 Gillick, Pat 1 4 Harris , Bucky 1 4 Pesky, Johnny 1 4 Harwell, Ernie 1 3 Martin, Billy 1 3 McCarthy, Tommy 1 3 O'Doul, Lefty 1 3 Wrigley, Phil 1 3 Doubleday, A 1 2 Autry, Gene 1 1 Howsam, Bob 1 1 Uecker, Bob 1 1
Last edited by jalbright; 09-10-2011 at 12:55 PM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Members of the Best of Baseball Hall. Last election's inductees are in red.
Players
ContributorsCode:Hank Aaron Pete Alexander Dick Allen Cap Anson Luke Appling Richie Ashburn Earl Averill Frank Baker Ernie Banks Ross Barnes John Beckwith Cool Papa Bell Johnny Bench Charlie Bennett Yogi Berra Akira Bessho Bert Blyleven Wade Boggs Lou Boudreau Ken Boyer Roger Bresnahan George Brett Dan Brouthers Mordecai Brown Ray Brown Willard Brown Jim Bunning Jesse Burkett Roy Campanella Rod Carew Max Carey Gary Carter Steve Carlton Bob Caruthers Perucho Cepeda Oscar Charleston Fred Clarke John Clarkson Roberto Clemente Ty Cobb Mickey Cochrane Eddie Collins Jimmy Collins Roger Connor Stan Coveleski Sam Crawford Joe Cronin Bill Dahlen George Davis Andre Dawson Dizzy Dean Ed Delahanty Bill Dickey Martin Dihigo Joe DiMaggio Larry Doby Bobby Doerr Don Drysdale Dennis Eckersley Dwight Evans Buck Ewing Red Faber Bob Feller Wes Ferrell Carlton Fisk Elmer Flick Whitey Ford Willie Foster Nellie Fox Jimmie Foxx Bill Freehan Frankie Frisch Pud Galvin Lou Gehrig Charlie Gehringer Bob Gibson Josh Gibson Jack Glasscock Joe Gordon George Gore Goose Goslin Goose Gossage Frank Grant Hank Greenberg Bobby Grich Heinie Groh Lefty Grove Tony Gwynn Stan Hack Billy Hamilton Isao Harimoto Gabby Hartnett Harry Heilmann Rickey Henderson Billy Herman Keith Hernandez Pete Hill Paul Hines Rogers Hornsby Carl Hubbell Kazuhisa Inao Monte Irvin Joe Jackson Reggie Jackson Ferguson Jenkins Hughie Jennings Grant "Home Run"Johnson Walter Johnson Addie Joss Al Kaline Masaichi Kaneda Tim Keefe Willie Keeler Charlie Keller Joe Kelley King Kelly Harmon Killebrew Ralph Kiner Sandy Koufax Masaaki Koyama Nap LaJoie Bob Lemon Buck Leonard Pop Lloyd Ted Lyons Biz Mackey Sherry Magee Mickey Mantle Juan Marichal Eddie Mathews Christy Mathewson Willie Mays Willie McCovey Joe McGinnity Bid McPhee Joe Medwick Jose Mendez Minnie Minoso Johnny Mize Paul Molitor Dobie Moore Joe Morgan Eddie Murray Stan Musial Shigeo Nagashima Hal Newhouser Kid Nichols Phil Niekro Katsuya Nomura Hiromitsu Ochiai Sadaharu Oh Alejandro Oms Jim O'Rourke Mel Ott Satchel Paige Jim Palmer Gaylord Perry Eddie Plank Charlie Radbourn Tim Raines Pee Wee Reese Rick Reuschel Cal Ripken, Jr. Robin Roberts Brooks Robinson Frank Robinson Jackie Robinson Bullet Joe Rogan Pete Rose Edd Roush Red Ruffing Amos Rusie Babe Ruth Nolan Ryan Ryne Sandberg Ron Santo Louis Santop Mike Schmidt Tom Seaver Al Simmons Ted Simmons George Sisler Enos Slaughter Hilton Smith Ozzie Smith Reggie Smith Duke Snider Warren Spahn Tris Speaker Victor Starffin Willie Stargell Joe Start Turkey Stearnes Harry Stovey Mule Suttles Don Sutton Ezra Sutton Bill Terry Sam Thompson Luis Tiant Joe Torre Cristobal Torriente Alan Trammell Pie Traynor Dazzy Vance Arky Vaughan Rube Waddell Honus Wagner Bobby Wallace Ed Walsh Paul Waner John M. Ward Willie Wells Zack Wheat Lou Whitaker Deacon White Hoyt Wilhelm Billy Williams Smoky Joe Williams Ted Williams Jud Wilson Dave Winfield George Wright Early Wynn Jimmy Wynn Carl Yastrzemski Cy Young Robin Yount
Code:Iso Abe Doc Adams Mel Allen Walter Alston Sparky Anderson Red Barber Ed Barrow Buzzue Bavasi Ed Bolden Alexander Cartwright O. P. Caylor Henry Chadwick Frank Chance Charlie Commiskey Charles Conlon Tom Connolly Bobby Cox Jim Creighton Jack Dunn Leo Durocher Al Munro Elias Bob Ferguson Rube Foster Ford Frick Gus Greenlee Clark Griffith Ned Hanlon Vic Harris Whitey Herzog William Hulbert Miller Huggins Ban Johnson Tetsuharu Kawakami Bill Klem Kenesaw Landis Tommy Lasorda Al Lopez Connie Mack Larry MacPhail Joe McCarthy John McGraw Bill McKechnie Marvin Miller Walter O'Malley Buck O'Neill Dickey Pearce Cum Posey A. J. Reach Francis Richter Branch Rickey Phil Rizzuto Jacob Ruppert Vin Scully Frank Selee Ben Shibe Matsutaro Shoriki Billy Southworth Al Spalding Alfred Spink J. G. T. Spink Casey Stengel C. I. Taylor Kazuto Tsuruoka Bill Veeck Earl Weaver George Weiss Sol White J. L. Wilkinson Dick Williams Harry Wright
Last edited by jalbright; 09-11-2011 at 07:00 PM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The complete list of eligible players:
The complete list of eligible contributors:Code:Adams , Babe Adams , Bobby Adams , Sparky Aguilera , Rick Allen , Johnny Alou , Jesus Alou , Matty Alou, Felipe Altrock , Nick Aparicio, Luis Archer , Jimmy Arlett , Buzz Austin , Jimmy Avila, Bobby Bailey , Bob Baines , Harold Baker , Dusty Bancroft , Dave Bando , Sal Barry , Jack Bartell , Dick Battin , Joe Bauer , Hank Baylor , Don Beaumont , Ginger Beckert, Glenn Beckley , Jake Bedrosian , Steve Belanger , Mark Bell , Buddy Bell , George Bender , Chief Benton , Larry Berg , Moe Bergen , Marty Berger , Wally Berry , Charlie Bibby , Jim Bigbee , Carson Billingham , Jack Bishop , Max Blackwell , Ewell Blades , Ray Blair , Paul Blass , Steve Blue , Lu Blue , Vida Bluege , Ossie Bodie , Ping Boley , Joe Bond , Tommy Bonds , Bobby Boone, Bob Bottomley , Jim Bowa , Larry Boyer , Clete Bradley , Bill Brecheen , Harry Breitenstein , Ted Brewer , Jim Bridges , Tommy Brock, Lou Browning , Pete Browning , Tom Bruton, Bill Buckner , Bill Burdette , Lew Burgess , Smoky Burns , George J. Burroughs , Jeff Bush , Joe Bush , Donie Bush , Guy Butler , Brett Cadore , Leon Camilli , Dolph Caminiti , Ken Camnitz , Howie Campaneris , Bert Campbell , Bill Candelaria , John Candiotti , Tom Cardenal , Jose Cardenas , Leo Carrasquel. Chico Carrigan , Bill Carroll, Clay Carter , Joe Case , George Cash , Dave Cash, Norm Cavaretta , Phil Cedeno , Cesar Cepeda , Orlando Cey , Ron Chandler , Spud Chapman , Ben Chapman , Ray Chapman , Sam Chase , Hal Chesbro , Jack Childs , Cupid Cicotte , Eddie Cissell , Bill Clark , Jack Clark , Watty Clarkson , Bus Clift, Harlond Coakley , Andy Colavito, Rocky Coleman , Vince Collins , Shano Combs , Earle Concepcion , Dave Conroy , Wid Coombs , Jack Cooper , Andy Cooper , Mort Cooper , Walker Cooper , Wilbur Courtney , Clint Cox , Billy Crandall , Doc Crandall, Del Cravath , Gavvy Criger , Lou Critz , Hughie Cross , Lave Crowder , Al Cruise , Walt Cruz , Jose Cuccinello , Tony Cummings , Candy Cuyler , Kiki Dandridge , Ray Danning , Harry Dark , Alvin Darling , Ron Daubert , Jake Daulton , Darren Davis , Chili Davis , Curt Davis , Eric Davis , Harry Davis , Mark Davis , Spud Day , Leon DeCinces, Doug Dempsey , Rick Denny , John Dent , Bucky Derringer , Paul Deshaies , Jim DiMaggio , Dom Dinneen , Bill Doak , Bill Donaldson, John Donlin , Mike Donovan , Bill Dooin , Red Downing, Bryan Doyle , Jack Doyle , Larry Drabek , Doug Dropo , Walt Duffy , Hugh Dugan , Joe Dunlap , Fred Dykes , Jimmy Earnshaw , George Easter, Luke Edwards , Hank Ehmke , Howard Eisenreich , Jim Elberfeld , Kid Elliott , Bob Elliott , Jumbo Ellis , Dock Enatsu , Yutaka Ennis, Del Ens , Jewel Erskine , Carl Evans , Darrell Evers , Johnny Face, Roy Fairly , Ron Falkenberg , Cy Fernandez , Sid Fernandez , Tony Ferrell , Rick Fingers , Rollie Finley , Chuck Fitzsimmons , Freddie Flanagan , Mike Fletcher , Art Flood , Curt Fonseca , Lew Forsch, Bob Foster , Eddie Foster , George Franco , John Fraser , Chick Fregosi , Jim Furillo , Carl Gaetti , Gary Galan , Augie Galarraga , Andres Garner , Phil Garver, Ned Garvey , Steve Gelbert , Charlie Gibson , Kirk Gleason , Kid Gomez , Lefty Gonzalez , Mike Gowdy , Hank Grant , Eddie Grantham , George Griffey, Sr, Ken Grimes , Burleigh Grimm , Charlie Grissom , Marv Groat, Dick Gromek , Steve Grove , Orval Guerrero , Pedro Guidry, Ron Gullickson , Bill Gustine , Frank Haas , Mule Haddix, Harvey Hafey , Chick Hahn , Noodles Haines , Jesse Hallahan , Bill Harder , Mel Hargrave , Bubbles Hargrove , Mike Harrah , Toby Harrelson , Bud Harris , Bucky Harris , Vic Hatton , Grady Hearn , Jim Hebner , Richie Hegan , Jim Helms, Tommy Hemus , Solly Henderson , Dave Henke , Tom Henrich , Tommy Herman , Babe Hernandez , Willie Hershiser , Orel Herzog , Buck Hickman , Jim Higgins , Mike Hiller , John Hinchman , Bill Hodges, Gil Holmes , Tommy Holtzman , Ken Honeycutt , Rick Hooper , Harry Hooton, Burt Horton , Willie Hough, Charlie Houtteman , Art Howard , Frank Howard, Elston Hoy , Dummy Hoyt , Waite Hrabosky , Al Hrbek , Kent Huggins , Miller Hunter , Catfish Hurst , Bruce Hutchinson , Fred Irwin , Charlie Jackman , Will Jackson , Sonny Jensen , Jackie John , Tommy Johnson , Bob Johnson , Davey Johnson , Judy Jones , Charley Jones , Doug Jones , Fielder Jones , Sam P. Jordan , Tim Jorgenson , Mike Judge , Joe Jurges , Billy Kaat, Jim Kamm , Willie Kawakami , Tetsuharu Kell , George Keltner , Ken Kennedy , Terry Kerr , Dickie Kessinger , Don Key , Jimmy Kile , Darryl Killefer , Bill Kilroy , Matt Kinder , Ellis Kingman , Dave Klein , Chuck Kling , Johnny Kluszewski, Ted Knabe , Otto Knight , Ray Koosman , Jerry Kremer , Ray Kress , Red Kruk , John Krukow , Mike Kuenn, Harvey Kuhel , Joe Kuzava , Bob Lange , Bill Lanier , Hal Lansford , Carney Larkin , Henry Larsen, Don Latham , Arlie Lavagetto , Cookie Law, Vern Lazzeri , Tony Leach , Freddy Leach , Tommy Lee , Bill Lee , Bill (Spaceman) Leever , Sam Lemon , Chet Leonard , Dennis Leonard , Emil (Dutch) Lewis , Duffy Lewis, Buddy Lindstrom , Freddie Lobert , Hans Lockman , Whitey Lolich, Mickey Lollar, Sherm Lombardi , Ernie Lonborg , Jim Long , Herman Lopat , Ed Lopes , Davey Lopez , Al Lowe , Bobby Lowenstein , John Lucas , Red Lundy , Dick Luque , Dolf Luzinski, Greg Lyle , Sparky Lynn , Fred Lyons , Denny Madlock , Bill Maglie , Sal Maloney, Jim Mancuso , Gus Manush , Heinie Maranville , Rabbit Marberry , Firpo Marion , Marty Maris, Roger Marquard , Rube Marshall , Mike G. Martin , Morrie Martin , Pepper Martinez , Dennis Mathews , Bobby Mattingly , Don May , Lee Mays , Carl Mazeroski , Bill McAleer , Jimmy McCarthy , Tommy McCarver , Tim McCormick , Frank McCormick , Jim McDaniel , Lindy McDougald, Gil McGowan , Bill McGraw , Tug McInnis , Stuffy McLain , Denny McLean , Larry McMahon, Don McManus , Marty McMillan, Roy McNally , Dave McVey , Cal Meadows , Lee Messersmith , Andy Meusel , Bob Miksis , Eddie Milan , Clyde Millan , Felix Miller , Bing Miller , Dots Miller , Hack Mitchell , Kevin Monday , Rick Money , Don Monroe , Bill Montgomery , Jeff Moon, Wally Moore , Jo-Jo Moore , Terry Moran , Pat Morris , Jack Mostil , Johnny Mota, Manny Mulcahy , Hugh Mullane , Tony Mungo , Van Munson , Thurman Murcer , Bobby Murphy , Dale Murphy , Danny Murray , Red Myer , Buddy Myers , Randy Nehf , Art Nettles , Graig Newcombe , Don Newsom , Bobo Nicholson , Bill Niekro , Joe Northey , Ron O'Doul , Lefty Oeschger , Joe O'Farrell , Bob O'Leary , Charlie Oliva, Tony Oliver , Al O'Neill , Steve O'Neill , Tip Orr , Dave Pabor , Charlie Pafko , Andy Parker , Dave Parrish , Lance Parrish , Larry Pascual, Camilo Paskert , Dode Pearson , Monte Peckinpaugh , Roger Peitz , Heinie Pena , Tony Pendleton , Terry Pennock , Herb Perdue , Hub Perez , Tony Perkins , Cy Perranoski , Ron Perry , Jim Pesky , Johnny Petrocelli, Rico Phillippe , Deacon Phillips , Tony Pierce , Billy Pike , Lip Piniella, Lou Pinson, Vada Pipp , Wally Podres, Johnny Poles , Spotswood Porterfield , Bob Powell , Boog Power , Vic Pruett , Hub Puckett , Kirby Puhl , Terry Quinn , Jack Quisenberry , Dan Randolph , Willie Raschi , Vic Raymond , Bugs Reardon , Jeff Redding , Dick Reiser , Pete Remsen , Jack Remy , Jerry Reynolds , Allie Rice , Del Rice , Jim Rice , Sam Richard, J R Richardson , Bobby Richardson , Hardy Righetti , Dave Ring , Jimmy Ritchey , Claude Rivers , Mickey Rixey , Eppa Robertson , Dave Roe , Preacher Rolfe , Red Rommel , Eddie Root , Charlie Rosen, Al Rucker , Nap Rudolph , Dick Ruel , Muddy Russell , Bill Ryan , Jimmy Sain , Johnny Samuel , Juan Sanguillen , Manny Sauer , Hank Sax , Steve Schacht , Al Schaefer , Germany Schalk , Ray Schang , Wally Schoendienst , Red Schreckengost , Ossie Schulte , Frank Scott , Everett Scott , George Scott , Jack Scott , Mike Selkirk , George Severeid , Hank Sewell , Joe Sewell , Luke Sewell , Rip Seymour , Cy Shantz, Bobby Sheckard , Jimmy Sherdel , Bill Shocker , Urban Short , Chris Siebert , Sonny Sievers , Roy Simmons, Curt Singleton , Ken Sisti , Sibby Smalley , Roy Smith , Earl Smith , Lee Smith , Lonnie Smith , Sherry Sparks , Tully Speier, Chris Stahl , Jake Stanky , Eddie Stanley , Mickey Staub , Rusty Steinbach , Terry Steinfeldt , Harry Stephens , Vern Stephenson , Riggs Stewart , Dave Stieb , Dave Stottlemyre , Mel Strawberry , Darryl Street , Gabby Suhr , Gus Sukeforth , Clyde Sundberg , Jim Sutcliffe , Rick Sutter , Bruce Sweeney , Bill Tannehill , Jesse Tartabull , Danny Taylor , Ben Tebbetts , Birdie Tekulve, Kent Templeton , Garry Tenace , Gene Tenney , Fred Thevenow , Tommy Thomas , Ira Thomson , Bobby Thornton , Andre Tiernan , Mike Tinker , Joe Tobin , Jim Toney , Fred Torgeson, Earl Torrez , Mike Travis, Cecil Trouppe , Quincy Trout , Dizzy Trucks , Virgil Tudor , John Turner , Terry Uhle , George Valentine , Ellis Valenzuela , Fernando Valo , Elmer Van Haltren , George Vander Meer , Johnny Veach , Bobby Vernon , Mickey Viola , Frank Walberg , Rube Walker , Harry Wallach , Tim Walters , Bucky Wambsganss , Bill Waner , Lloyd Warfield , Frank Warneke , Lon Watson , Bob Welch , Bob Welch , Mickey Werber , Billy Wertz, Vic West , Sam Westrum , Wes White , Sol White , Will White, Frank Whitehill , Earl Williams , Cy Williams , Ken Williamson , Ned Willis , Vic Wills, Maury Wilson , Hack Wilson , Jim Wilson , Jimmie Wilson , Willie Witt , Whitey Wood , Joe Wood , Wilbur Wright , Glenn Wyatt , Whit Yamamoto , Koji Yeager , Steve Yerkes , Steve York , Rudy Young , Pep Youngs , Ross Zachary , Tom Zimmer , Chief
Code:Alou , Felipe Ashford, Emmet Autry, Gene Bancroft , Frank Barlick, Al Berger , Sy Bouton , Jim Brickhouse , Jack Buck , Jack Bulkely , Morgan Busch , Augie Cambria , Joe Campbell , Jim Canel, Buck Caray , Skip Caray, Harry Carrigan, Bill Chandler, Happy Chylak , Nestor Conlan , Jocko Cooper , Andy Cummings , Candy Dark , Alvin Davids , Bob Dinneen , Bill Doubleday , Abner Doucet , Jacques Dreyfuss , Barney Dyer , Eddie Dykes , Jimmy Evans, Billy Feller, Sherm Fetzer, John Flood , Curt Foster , John B. Fowler, Bud Fregosi , Jim Fullerton , Hugh Giles , Warren Gillick , Pat Gleason , Kid Gonzalez , Mike Gowdy , Curt Grimm, Charlie Haak , Howie Haney , Fred Harridge, Willie Harris , Bucky Harvey, Doug Harwell, Ernie Hemond , Roland Heydler, John Hillerich , John Hodges, Gil Hodges, Russ Houk , Ralph Howsam, Bob Hubbard , Cal Hutchinson , Fred Jobe , Frank Kaat , Jim Krichell, Paul Kuenn , Harvey Kuhn , Bowie Lanier , Hal Lanigan, Ernest Lardner , Ring Leavitt, Jr. , Charles W. Luque , Dolf MacPhail, Lee Manley , Effa Martin , Billy Mauch , Gene McCarthy , Tommy McCarver, Tim McGowan, Bill Mills , A. G. Mizuhara, Shigeru Moran , Pat Murnane, Tim Murtaugh, Danny Mutrie , Jim Navin , Frank Neft , David Nelson , Lindsey Norworth, Jack O'Day, Hank O'Doul, Lefty O'Neill, Steve Osborn , Frank Palmer , Pete Pasquel, Jorge Patkin, Max Pesky , Johnny Pompez , Alex Pulliam, Harry Ramirez, Felo Reese , Jimmie Rice, Grantland Richards, Paul Ritter , Lawrence Robinson , Wilbert Schoendienst, Red Schuerholtz , John Selig , Bud Sewell , Luke Sheppard, Bob Smith, Red Stallings , George Steinbrenner, George Street, Gabby Tanner , Chuck Thayer , Ernest Tyson, Ty Uecker , Bob van der Ahe, Chris Virdon, Bill Warfield , Frank Weyer , Lee Wilson , Horace Wrigley, Phil Yawkey, Tom
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
My ballot
Players
1. Cupid Childs
2. Sal Bando
3. Quincy Trouppe
4. Hugh Duffy
5. Tony Mullane
6. Graig Nettles
7. Bobby Bonds
8. Willie Randolph
9. Bruce Sutter
10. Dan Quisenberry
11. Chino Smith
12. Darrell Evans
Contributors
1. David Neft
2. George Steinbrenner
3. Shigeru Mizuhara
4. Alex Pompez
5. Bucky Harris
On the contributor side, I returned Bucky Harris to the ballot after bumping him to make room for Bobby Cox. There are two new player candidates, both at the bottom of the list: Chino Smith and Darrell Evans.
My queue:
Players: Yutaka Enatsu and Bus Clarkson
Contributors: John Scheurholtz, Pat Gillick, Frank Jobe, Lefty O'Doul and Billy Martin.
Last edited by jalbright; 09-10-2011 at 05:06 PM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Registered User
01. Jake Beckley
02. Cupid Childs
03. Urban Shocker
04. Jimmy Sheckard
05. Wally Berger
06. Quincy Trouppe
07. Sal Bando
08. Billy Pierce
09. Willie Randolph
10. Tony Mullane
11. Chino Smith
12. Hugh Duffy
01. Frank Jobe
02. Lefty O'Doul
03. George Steinbrenner
04. David Neft
05. Shigeru Mizuhara
Registered User
Players:
1. Jimmy Sheckard
2. Sal Bando
3. Kirby Puckett
4. Urban Shocker
5. Cupid Childs
6. Quincy Trouppe
7. Thurman Munson
8. Hugh Duffy
9. Dale Murphy
10. Charley Jones
11. Bruce Sutter
12. Lip Pike
Contributors:
1. David Neft
2. George Steinbrenner
3. Billy Evans
4. Alex Pompez
5. Pat Gillick
Contributor queue: Billy Martin, Shigeru Mizuhara, Jocko Conlan, Cal Hubbard, Lefty O'Doul
Player queue: Wally Schang, Jake Beckley, Hardy Richardson, Chino Smith
Last edited by jjpm74; 09-11-2011 at 09:52 PM. Reason: Added to queue
Bleed the Freak
Ballot 2007:
1 Dick Lundy
2 Jimmy Sheckard
3 Darrell Evans
4 Quincy Trouppe
5 Urban Shocker
6 Don Newcombe
7 Graig Nettles
8 Bert Campaneris
9 Hardy Richardson
10 Cupid Childs
11 Jake Beckley
12 Ned Williamson
Contributors:
1 Johnny Pesky
2 John Schierholtz
3 Shigeru Mizuhara
4 Doug Harvey
5 Alex Pompez
My apologies for placing Hack on my ballot...I had thought he was elected many "years ago" but didn't see him on the list of electees this year. I have replaced him with (N)Ed Williamson.
Last edited by Jar of Flies; 09-11-2011 at 08:07 PM.
Bleed the Freak
For Tony Mullane and WAR fans, please realize that the replacement level is quite a challenge to set accurately for pitchers in the Box era.
The quality of play for leagues in 19th century baseball could change significantly from year to year. Since Sean Smith's uses a decade adjustment for players (IE. 1880s replacement level remains the same for 1880-1889 in the American Association - AA), players who excelled in the weaker years of the AA are being likely overrated, which would be the case with Mullane's peak stats in the early 1880s AA.http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/...of_merit/P100/
141. Alex King Posted: December 07, 2010 at 03:03 AM (#3704636)
There is a problem with the replacement levels for 1876-1891 pitchers.
Year NL AA UA/PL
1876 .466
1877 .470
1878 .460
1879 .463
1880 .444
1881 .449
1882 .447 .443
1883 .447 .449
1884 .423 .440 .414
1885 .441 .438
1886 .421 .425
1887 .441 .429
1888 .436 .423
1889 .429 .418
1890 .448 .442 .425
1891 .434 .416
Replacement level is supposed to be .420 for starting pitchers.
Replacement level is considerably higher for the 1876-1879 period, suggesting that these pitchers may be underrated. Meanwhile the large fluctuations between 1884 and 1891 are quite disturbing and cannot be explained by rounding errors alone. There are no adjustments for the AA, UA, and Players' League, but we knew that already--mainly this affects Mullane, who goes from being a serious candidate to not even close.
I'll probably try to put together some pitcher WAR estimates for Welch, McCormick, etc. based on a .420 replacement level, with an AA discount, and otherwise following Sean Smith's methods.
2004 & 2007
Players:
1. Lou Brock
2. Luis Aparicio
3. Eppa Rixey
4. Wally Berger
5. Quincy Trouppe
6. Sal Bando
7. Cupid Childs
8. Bruce Sutter
9. Dan Quisenberry
10. Kirby Puckett
11. Ray Dandridge
12. Chino Smith
Contributors:
1. Billy Evans
2. David Neft
3. Shigeru Mizuhara
4. Alex Pompez
5. Doug Harvey
Last edited by Dogdaze; 09-12-2011 at 04:51 AM.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Dogdaze: You skipped the third spot. I would count your ballot without that, but I'd prefer you take care of it yourself.
Also, Jar of Flies, your selection of Hack alerted me to the fact I must have screwed up and deleted him from the inductees when we elected Gwynn rather than simply inserting Gwynn's name. Again, it doesn't prevent your ballot from being valid, but I'd prefer a ballot of 12 submitted by you.
I'll also PM you guys about these issues.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
1. Tommy Leach
2. Lou Brock
3. Frank Howard
4. Orlando Cepeda
5. Cupid Childs
6. Tony Perez
7. Johnny Evers
8. Ray Dandridge
9. Darrell Evans
10. Jimmy Sheckard
11. Sal Bando
12. Vada Pinson
in the wings: Dave bancroft, Maranville, Puckett, Larry Doyle, Bob Elliott, Dale Murphy, Oliva, Shocker, Willis and Tommy John to name a few or make that a bunch.
1. Red Smith
2. Billy Evans
3. Tommy McCarthy
4. Doug Harvey
5. Shigeru Mizuhara
carpe baseball
Players
1. Quincy Trouppe
2. Sal Bando
3. Billy Pierce
4. Jimmy Sheckard
5. Cupid Childs
6. Tony Mullane
7. Dick Lundy
8. Willie Randolph
9. Graig Nettles
10. Darrell Evans
11. Bobby Bonds
12. Chino Smith
Contributors
1. John Schuerholz
2. George Steinbrenner
3. Shigeru Mizuhara
4. Alex Pompez
5. Danny Murtaugh
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff." -- Cicero
2004 & 2007
Sorry about that, I fixed it.Originally Posted by jalbright
Researcher/advocate/mod
Absolutely no need to apologize. Heck, it brought a problem I had created (overwriting Hack's name with Gwynn instead of inserting Gwynn's name above Hack) out into the open for me to fix. It's my fault, not yours.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Not to worry. As is shown by my error with Hack, I'm not immune to making errors, either. It happens.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
a posse ad esse
Players
1. Eppa Rixey
2. Joe Sewell
3. Rollie Fingers
4. Luis Aparicio
5. Wally Berger
6. Billy Pierce
7. Kirby Puckett
8. Graig Nettles
9. Quincy Trouppe
10. Darrell Evans
11. Lee Smith
12. Dale Murphy
Positional queue: Jack Clark, Buddy Bell, Bobby Bonds, Willie Randolph, Ron Cey
Pitching queue: Tommy John, Carl Mays, Lefty Gomez, Jim Kaat, Mickey Welch
Contributors
1. John Schuerholz
2. Billy Martin
3. Billy Evans
4. Bob Howsam
5. Augie Busch
Short list: Pat Gillick, Doug Harvey, Tim Murnane, Red Schoendienst, George Steinbrenner
September 16, 2012: The Losing Streak Ends
OSHA-certified Moderator
1. Kirby Puckett
2. Burleigh Grimes
3. Luis Aparicio
4. Lefty Gomez
5. Eppa Rixey
6. Jake Beckley
7. Lou Brock
8. Ray Dandridge
9. Tony Perez
10. Jimmy Sheckard
11. Quincy Trouppe
12. Cupid Childs
Contributors
1. Billy Evans
2. Bucky Harris
3. Ernie Harwell
4. Doug Harvey
5. George Steinbrenner
Tom Tresh George Kell Mark Fidrych Bob Feller
Ernie Harwell Soupy Sales Alex Chilton Sparky Anderson
Joe Nuxhall Gary Carter MCA Emanuel Steward
Sonny Elliot Dave Brubeck Earl Weaver Stan Musial
Jonathan Winters Neil Armstrong Roger Ebert Anthony Zahler
Ray Manzarek
Registered User
1 Lou Brock
2 Eppa Rixey
3 Luis Aparicio
4 Sal Bando
5 Cupid Childs
6 Tony Mullane
7 Urban Schocker
8 Burleigh Grimes
9 Billy Pierce
10 Jim Sheckard
11 Jacob Beckley
12 Mickey Welch
Registered User
Players:
1. Lou Brock
2. Jake Beckley
3. Tony Mullane
4. Jimmy Sheckard
5. Ray Dandridge
6. Quincy Trouppe
7. Luis Aparicio
8. Eppa Rixey
9. Cupid Childs
10. Billy Pierce
11. Sam Rice
12. Kirby Puckett
Contributors:
1. Harry Caray
2. David Neft
3. John Schuerholz
4. Bob Uecker
5. Billy Evans
Last edited by TheMendozaLine; 09-14-2011 at 08:52 AM.
Researcher/advocate/mod
We've got a quorum on both ballots, and in fact all but yankillaz from last election have already voted. If he hasn't voted by Monday, I'll follow up with him via PM.
Next election will add some interesting names. On the contributor side, there's Davey Johnson and Lou Piniella. I don't plan on voting for either in the next election, but would listen to their cases should anyone care to make them. I'm going to be adding Gillick, who will have added being the GM for the world champ Phils to his resume.
On the player side, there's a large crop with some interesting names:
I've already signalled support for Clemens, Martinez and McGwire, and McGriff certainly has his supporters. Some others in that group might get at least consideration from our voters.Bichette , Dante
Bonilla , Bobby
Clemens , Roger
Dunston , Shawon
Dykstra , Lenny
Fielder , Cecil
Greenwell , Mike
Martinez , Edgar
McGriff , Fred
McGwire , Mark
O'Neill , Paul
Weiss , Walt
Wells , David
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Registered User
Clemens, Martinez, and McGwire will lead my ballot ... and likely in that order. McGriff has an outside shot of cracking the 10 through 12 area, depending upon how this election unfolds.
Researcher/advocate/mod
We had 11 player ballots and 10 contributor ballots. We elected Cupid Childs, Jimmy Sheckard, and Quincy Trouppe among the players and Billy Evans among the contributors. The official results will follow, players first:
Now the contributors:Code:Players……………….. votes pts Childs , Cupid 10 69 Trouppe, Quincy 9 66 Sheckard , J 8 59 Bando, Sal 7 57 Brock, Lou 5 53 Aparicio, Luis 5 46 Rixey, Eppa 5 46 Mullane , Tony 5 35 Beckley , Jake 5 34 Shocker, Urban 4 33 Puckett, Kirby 5 32 Pierce, Billy 5 29 Berger , Wally 3 25 Nettles, Graig 4 22 Evans, Darrell 5 21 Dandridge, Ray 4 20 Lundy , Dick 2 18 Grimes , B 2 16 Duffy , Hugh 3 15 Randolph, W 3 14 Leach , Tommy 1 12 Perez, Tony 2 11 Sewell , Joe 1 11 Sutter, Bruce 3 11 Fingers, Rollie 1 10 Howard, Frank 1 10 Cepeda, Orlando 1 9 Gomez, Lefty 1 9 Bonds, Bobby 2 8 Newcombe, Don 1 7 Quisenberry, D 2 7 Evers, Johnny 1 6 Munson, Thurman 1 6 Smith, Chino 4 6 Campaneris, B 1 5 Murphy, Dale 2 5 Richardson , H 1 4 Jones, Charley 1 3 Rice, Sam 1 2 Smith, Lee 1 2 Pike, Lip 1 1 Pinson, Vada 1 1 Welch, Mickey 1 1 Williamson, Ned 1 1
Code:Contributor……… votes pts Evans, Billy 6 21 Neft, David 5 20 Schuerhotlz, J 4 17 Steinbrenner, G 5 16 Mizuhara, S 6 14 Pompez, Alex 5 9 Harvey, Doug 4 7 Caray, Harry 1 5 Harris , Bucky 2 5 Jobe, Frank 1 5 Pesky, Johnny 1 5 Smith, Red 1 5 Martin, Billy 1 4 O'Doul, Lefty 1 4 Harwell, Ernie 1 3 McCarthy, Tommy 1 3 Howsam, Bob 1 2 Uecker, Bob 1 2 Busch, Augie 1 1 Gillick, Pat 1 1 Murtaugh, Danny 1 1
Last edited by jalbright; 09-24-2011 at 10:54 AM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
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