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Thread: Red Sox offseason 2011-2012

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by philliesfiend55 View Post
    You were wrong about Francona and I think you're wrong about Wakefield too.
    NOW would be THE RIGHT TIME for him to leave the game.
    With a 5.12 ERA, 163 hits allowed in 154 innings, a declining strikeout ratio, just one win over the last nine weeks of the season and only 7 wins all year despite excellent hitting support, I'd say the Writing is on the Wall for Tim. (In his last 13 outings of 2011 I believe Wakefield was 1-6 with 6 No-Decisions). He may not want to leave after the Red Sox collapsed and missed the playoffs, but Wakefield was really more part of the problem than part of the solution in 2011 and hopefully he'll make a graceful exit.
    The Knuckleball has provided him with excellent career longevity, but you can't ask for much more success than he's had, which includes winning 200 games (200-180 lifetime), being part of Two World Series winners, being part of around ten teams that made the playoffs, winning 186 games as a Red Sox (186-168 with Boston)- 3rd most Wins in team history, making one all-star team, compiling over 2,100 strikeouts and finally pitching in the majors until age 45. Great career - but it's really time for Wake to leave the game to the youngsters.
    Wakefield and strikeout ratio in one sentence should be forbidden.

  2. #102
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    I just heard, that there is serious talk inside the Red Sox org. wheter or not they should make Daniel Bard a starting pitcher!

    He was drafted as one and struggled in the minors until he became a relieever. Now they want to retry him as a starter. He is a four pitch guy, could work.

  3. #103
    Yikes, I wouldn't touch him with a 39-and-a-half-foot pole. He's tops on my list of Yankee players I hate, and that's saying a LOT with the likes of ARod and TRod on the team!

    (regarding Swisher)

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwissRedSoxFan View Post
    I just heard, that there is serious talk inside the Red Sox org. wheter or not they should make Daniel Bard a starting pitcher!

    He was drafted as one and struggled in the minors until he became a relieever. Now they want to retry him as a starter. He is a four pitch guy, could work.
    I dont know Swiss, but he was an AWESOME college starter. Guess that would mean Paps is back and Aceves would fill Bards roll????? interesting

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D. View Post
    NY has an option for 2012 for him. Did they announce they're not picking it up?
    did not hear anything on him. I actually think he would fit in with our club. He is the kind of player you hate when he is not on your team.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    I dont know Swiss, but he was an AWESOME college starter. Guess that would mean Paps is back and Aceves would fill Bards roll????? interesting
    Thats what I heard, yes. If they can resign Papelbon, they want to make Bard a starter. Like Ogando or CJ Wilson. Would be awesome if this would work!

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D. View Post
    NY has an option for 2012 for him. Did they announce they're not picking it up?
    I would have brought him up but as Mike says the Yankees have an option and if they haven't picked it up yet they most definitely will. Case closed.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    I dont know Swiss, but he was an AWESOME college starter. Guess that would mean Paps is back and Aceves would fill Bards roll????? interesting
    Not necessarily Paps but someone who can close. As far as Bard as a starter, I have very mixed feelings. His track record as Starter since college is disappointing while he seemed to have thrived almost immediately when put in the pen. On the other hand he increasingly throws his change and slider (and gets alot of swings and misses), which shows increased development in these secondary offerings. I might be very wrong here, but I'm not very comfortable with the idea of Bard as a SP. Of course if I am wrong and he is successfully turned into a SP, that would be awesome!
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  9. #109
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    In this offseason it is much easier to find a closer than a SP. Bard has matured in a great way since becoming a reliever. He is 26 and it's at least worth a shot. It becomes a problem when the Red Sox rely on him becoming a successful starter in 2012. Would be cool to pass on signing former reliever turned SP CJW and simply do the same thing with one of our guys. I must say, that I cannot remember Bard pitching from the wind-up...

  10. #110
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    Crawford has never played RF in the majors and only 54 games in his whole career in CF. I don't think he has a RF arm either. If you thought he was messed up this year trying to live up to that contract, imagine if he has to go into the 2012 season worrying about playing a completely new position. Your better option is Reddick or go after a FA RF instead IMO.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...02-field.shtml

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwissRedSoxFan View Post
    Thats what I heard, yes. If they can resign Papelbon, they want to make Bard a starter. Like Ogando or CJ Wilson. Would be awesome if this would work!
    The talk of Bard being switched to a starter has been going on for a while. The issue that he has had as a starter was that with mechanics, couldn't maintain the same mechanics as a starter, could he do it now? perhaps.
    Last edited by scaffolds; 10-08-2011 at 06:36 AM.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by scaffolds View Post
    The talk of Bard being switched to a starter has been going on for a while. I have mix opinion about it.
    As I said above, I have mixed feelings about Bard as a starter as well. Here's what I'm worried about. His secondary offerings have improved greatly and he threw them more and in fastball counts this season. But are they good enough to consistently get swings and misses over 7 innings. Also, while his fastball is filthy if in the upper 90's, it becomes rather hittable when in the lower to mid 90's. So, the question is can he hold up his fastball velo over 7 innings?

    We also talked a lot about Bard having become tired over the final month (just like everybody else on that team), so color me a little worried when his workload goes from 70 IP to 200 IP. It's something the Sox should discuss internally, but again, I'm not really comfortable with the idea of turning him into a starter.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    when his workload goes from 70 IP to 200 IP.
    That's actually something else to add to the equation. If Bard does become a starter, there's no way he'd be allowed to throw anywhere close to 200 innings. He'd either be on pitch counts, get skipped periodically, or go on the DL a couple of times to rest him.

    Not saying they shouldn't make the move if they think it'd work out, but you need to plan extra pitching depth to cover those innings that Bard can't throw. Maybe that means using Aceves as a swingman more this year (taking an occassional start for Bard, and maybe even piggybacking on him if Bard goes 4-5 per start. Since Aceves was key in the late innings last year, that means adding ANOTHER solid arm to the pen (in addition to the one you need to replace because Bard is now in the rotation).
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by scaffolds View Post
    The talk of Bard being switched to a starter has been going on for a while. The issue that he has had as a starter was that with mechanics, couldn't maintain the same mechanics as a starter, could he do it now? perhaps.
    Yes. The biggest issue would be throwing from the wind-up and having a respectable BB/9. Throwing 150 innings instead of 70 wouldnt if he builds up endurance and throws just every fifth day. Maybe he practiced his wind-up already during the season, which is why the Red Sox believe he could start again. I don't know. If they try it they should be pretty optimistic about it, because it also dictates what they do in free agency.
    Last edited by SwissRedSoxFan; 10-09-2011 at 03:43 AM.

  15. #115
    I agree that he would need to build up endurance. however it is not as extreme as it sounds.

    throwing 70 as a reliever is much harder than throwing 100 as a starter mainly because you have less rest and maybe also a little due to having less preparation time.


    So he needs more stamina as a starter but it's not that you need 3 times as much endurance to throw 240 than you need for 70 in relief. I guess throwing 200 IP for mike marshall in relief was much more stressfull for his body than it was for nolan ryan to throw 300. you can't compare starters and relievers innings directly very good.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  16. #116
    C'mon, fellas, all this talk of making Bard a starter is a knee-jerk reaction to how the season ended. I'll still take Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz over CC, Nova, and Burnett any day of the week and twice on Sunday. If Lackey was pitching half-way decently it would be a non-issue.

  17. #117
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    it is not knee jerk by us...Swiss heard a report that the front office has been talking about it. I do agree that is Beckett, Lester pitch to thier abilities, and if Buch had not been hurt, it would have been a different season. Getting anything out of Lackey is a plus. I would like to give the rotation on more year to see what they can do befroe freaking out. I would like the rotation to be Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, and ???.

    you can be sure thet the Yankees will address the rotation and spend on a front end starter. BTW, did you see CC Sabathia's last start...he looks way fat. He was always a big boy and can still throw the ball well, but he is down right obese. I see an injury in his near future.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9&10 View Post
    C'mon, fellas, all this talk of making Bard a starter is a knee-jerk reaction to how the season ended. I'll still take Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz over CC, Nova, and Burnett any day of the week and twice on Sunday. If Lackey was pitching half-way decently it would be a non-issue.
    Although it seems everybody in the beloved Boston media is calling for stupid knee-jerk reactions, I believe that if the front office is indeed discussing moving Bard to the rotation has nothing to do with how the season ended and everything to do with a reestablished trust in his secondary offerings (changeup and slider).
    Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 10-10-2011 at 11:07 AM.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9&10 View Post
    Yikes, I wouldn't touch him with a 39-and-a-half-foot pole. He's tops on my list of Yankee players I hate, and that's saying a LOT with the likes of ARod and TRod on the team!

    (regarding Swisher)
    Interesting. Swish is one of the few Yankees players I do not hate.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    Interesting. Swish is one of the few Yankees players I do not hate.
    For whatever reason, the Yankee Fans of this board want him to leave, because he doesn't hit good pitching...

    I still would love a Reddick/Kalish/Brentz solution in the next 1-7 years. I think one of them can provide us something like .270/.340/15HR with above average defense for little money. And as a GM of that expensive Red Sox roster, I would take it, even if they all are left-handed.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwissRedSoxFan View Post
    I still would love a Reddick/Kalish/Brentz solution in the next 1-7 years. I think one of them can provide us something like .270/.340/15HR with above average defense for little money. And as a GM of that expensive Red Sox roster, I would take it, even if they all are left-handed.
    I agree completely. And Brentz looked real good in Greenville and good in Salem. Kalish will be interesting to see how he looks after surgery. I would expect Reddick to get the starting spot in RF in 2012 with Kalish probably starting in Pawtucket to begin the season.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  22. #122
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    This has absolutely nothing to do with anything really, but I had to get this of my chest. Nick Cafardo should get a new job! The guy has no f***** clue! He has quite possibly become as terrible as Shaughnessy! It physically pains me to read anything he writes! They should have something like an ignore list for online media journalists.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  23. #123
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    From the Herald via rotoworld:

    Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein is "on the cusp" of leaving Boston to take a job with the Cubs, reports the Boston Herald.

    It's an interesting choice of words. Because earlier on there was a report, that the theo to cubs situation was "on the cusp" of being resolved, which could mean an entirely different thing! Would hate to see Theo leave, but if he does, I hope he brings a title to the North Side (not in the next two years, though, cause I would like to see back to back titles for the Red Sox).

    UPDATE: All over Twitter now, but not sure if that all origins from the same Herald article or if indeed different sources independently confirm these rumors. I guess the former. If Theo leaves, who joins me for Occupy Yawkey Way?
    Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 10-11-2011 at 04:23 PM.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    From the Herald via rotoworld:

    Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein is "on the cusp" of leaving Boston to take a job with the Cubs, reports the Boston Herald.

    It's an interesting choice of words. Because earlier on there was a report, that the theo to cubs situation was "on the cusp" of being resolved, which could mean an entirely different thing! Would hate to see Theo leave, but if he does, I hope he brings a title to the North Side (not in the next two years, though, cause I would like to see back to back titles for the Red Sox).

    UPDATE: All over Twitter now, but not sure if that all origins from the same Herald article or if indeed different sources independently confirm these rumors. I guess the former. If Theo leaves, who joins me for Occupy Yawkey Way?
    I'll join u.

    See that's baseball in Boston. A **** roller-coaster of emotions. Nearly exactly a year ago I was soo pumped:

    Boston finally got Adrian Gonzalez!

    A week later:

    Boston got Crawford too!

    Are u serious?!? WS here we come!

    A year later: September. Francona, the coolest manager is gone. Epstein, the most intelligent GM (my biased Sox opinion:-)) gone, too.

    Makes me speechless.

    Hopefully we get Castro and Soto and Cashner and...

  25. #125
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    I gotta say, I really didn't expect Theo to go. If it's true, it tarnishes his legacy somewhat to leave with things such a mess.
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