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Thread: The Off-Season: 2011-2012 Edition

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SD Bomber Fan View Post
    There's another point here too: these guys take steroids for a reason - it has a positive impact on their playing abilities. You can't pretend that he'll perform the same way without them that he did when he was on them. He was a 50 HR/year guy on steroids, when he was in the prime of his career. Now he's an aging player without steroids who is dealing with frequent injuries. I think the Yanks will be lucky if they see 20 - 25 HR/year from him going forward. At that rate, he might just make it.
    He was a 50 HR guy without for quite awhile as well. He needs to learn that he can no longer do as much as he once did. He needs to learn to give himself more recovery time.


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  2. #27
    The one thing in A-Rods favor is that now with drug testing he won't have to face a lot of pitchers on steroids like he had to face before testing.
    Last edited by John Shoemaker; 10-09-2011 at 07:50 PM.

  3. #28
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    It's worth noting that Rodriguez was batting .295/.366/.485 prior to his injury, good for a well above-average 145 wRC+. That's certainly not the Rodriguez of the halcyon days ... but it's still pretty damned good.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Shoemaker View Post
    The one thing in A-Rods favor is that now with drug testing he won't have to face a lot of pitchers on steroids like he had to face before testing.
    Yeah, right, that would be so unfair...

  5. #30
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    Again, I don't think that we can assume that injuries won't be a large part of A-Rod's future. The have been for the last few years, and it's probably not going to get better. A-Rod only playing 100 games/year in 2011 was probably a rarity, but I doubt we'll see him playing 140 games/year either.

  6. #31
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    The Royals have claimed Aaron Laffey and relivers Scott Proctor and Raul Valdes have elected for free agency. All three were on the 40 man roster, which is now down to 37. Expect more small moves like this to get some of the younger guys on to the 40 man roster and out of the rule V draft.
    Lets Go Yankees, Valley Cats, Dutchmen, UT Spartans and ECU Pirates.

  7. #32
    Good riddance to Proctor.

  8. #33
    Proctor single handedly eliminated the Sawx from postseason

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
    Good riddance to Proctor.
    Agree proctor was awfull. Finally something we both agree.

  10. #35
    This is why I hate ESPN. They are blowing up this story staying ortiz would come to the Yankees. Who cares? Why in the world would we sign another aging bat that can't play the field to save himself. I get he had a pretty decent year but I just can't see it as a good move at all.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Hysteria View Post
    This is why I hate ESPN. They are blowing up this story staying ortiz would come to the Yankees. Who cares? Why in the world would we sign another aging bat that can't play the field to save himself. I get he had a pretty decent year but I just can't see it as a good move at all.
    Ortiz said what he said to squeeze the Red Sox for more money, it's nothing more than a business move on his part. The Yankees will not sign Ortiz, unless he's willing to accept $3-5 million dollars and a greatly reduced role, and the Red Sox may decide to part ways and find someone younger or make a push for Prince Fielder. I see Ortiz fitting in Tampa Bay for a year or two. With that said, the Yanks might also trade Montero for an arm and sign Fielder, if that doesn't work, Ortiz could be a cheaper option as well as less years, but I in no way want Montero traded and replaced by David Ortiz. Montero has a great bat, and he's young, unless we can get Felix Hernandez, I don't think it's worth trading Montero.
    The 27 Time World Series Champions New York Yankees!

  12. #37
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    Reggie Corona reinstated from the 60 Day DL and sent to AAA to clear a spot on the 40 man roster. Joba Chamberlain and Justin Maxwell were also taken off the DL and added to the to the 40 man roster which now is at 39. There are still 4 (P. Feliciano, D. Marte, C. Curtis and S. Mitre) more players on the 60 day DL who will have to be dealt with soon.
    Last edited by Biggtone23; 10-13-2011 at 04:16 PM.
    Lets Go Yankees, Valley Cats, Dutchmen, UT Spartans and ECU Pirates.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeefan90 View Post
    Ortiz said what he said to squeeze the Red Sox for more money, it's nothing more than a business move on his part. The Yankees will not sign Ortiz, unless he's willing to accept $3-5 million dollars and a greatly reduced role, and the Red Sox may decide to part ways and find someone younger or make a push for Prince Fielder. I see Ortiz fitting in Tampa Bay for a year or two. With that said, the Yanks might also trade Montero for an arm and sign Fielder, if that doesn't work, Ortiz could be a cheaper option as well as less years, but I in no way want Montero traded and replaced by David Ortiz. Montero has a great bat, and he's young, unless we can get Felix Hernandez, I don't think it's worth trading Montero.
    Sign Fielder? And how would Tex feel about that, you don't think he'd feel slighted?

    And...you do realize that Fielder will command $17M to $20M+ per season right? I can't really see the Yanks dolling out that kind of money for a player like Fielder. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy but the DH is probably going to be commandeered by Montero next season.
    "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyStarks View Post
    Sign Fielder? And how would Tex feel about that, you don't think he'd feel slighted?

    And...you do realize that Fielder will command $17M to $20M+ per season right? I can't really see the Yanks dolling out that kind of money for a player like Fielder. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy but the DH is probably going to be commandeered by Montero next season.
    Fielder is a great player. He's to cocky and he was laughing when his team was about to loose game 3. Imagine that he was playing with Yankees he'll get slaughtered and he's overweight. Keep montero for trade bait.Ortiz I doubted it playing in new York. So much hatred for this guy.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeter2 View Post
    Fielder is a great player. He's to cocky and he was laughing when his team was about to loose game 3. Imagine that he was playing with Yankees he'll get slaughtered and he's overweight. Keep montero for trade bait.Ortiz I doubted it playing in new York. So much hatred for this guy.
    I like Fielder. He plays the game like a kid most of the time. I admire that he hasn't lost that...yet.

    Just keep Montero. He's cheap and could be a star in the making. If the Yanks have no faith in his glove, then make him the full time DH, backup Catcher.
    I really don't get it. The man cannot possibly be worse than Posada or even Piazza was.
    "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

  16. #41
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    If the Yankees continue to stay in the $215 MM payroll range, it's incredibly unlikely that they can dole out more than one large contract. Signing Fielder for between $18 and $24 MM (which is the range that I've mostly heard) when there's a league-minimum alternative on the roster in Montero is inane. Particularly when Fielder's body type is a precursor to a pretty rapid decline - Mo Vaughn and Cecil Fielder were done as productive players around 30, for what it's worth.

    And, beyond that, if the Yankes are going to be able to give out one big contract ... I'd rather have Wilson or Darvish. The rotation is a much bigger need than the offense.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Domenic View Post
    If the Yankees continue to stay in the $215 MM payroll range, it's incredibly unlikely that they can dole out more than one large contract. Signing Fielder for between $18 and $24 MM (which is the range that I've mostly heard) when there's a league-minimum alternative on the roster in Montero is inane. Particularly when Fielder's body type is a precursor to a pretty rapid decline - Mo Vaughn and Cecil Fielder were done as productive players around 30, for what it's worth.

    And, beyond that, if the Yankes are going to be able to give out one big contract ... I'd rather have Wilson or Darvish. The rotation is a much bigger need than the offense.
    Cj Wilson is Average pitcher. Yu darvish I saw him pitch in WBC. He's a very good pitcher. Will it translate to the u.s. Idk I don't follow the Nippon league but don't the pitchers pitch once a week? And with the bad history pitchers of japan coming to new York it's a risk. I rather have Felix Hernandez I can only dream.

  18. #43
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    In what world is C.J. Wilson an average pitcher?

    This year, Wilson posted a 2.94 ERA (32% better than league-average), a 3.24 FIP (24% better than league-average), and a 3.41 xFIP (16% better than league-average). His strikeout rate, walk rate, K/BB, and groundball rater were all above-average, and by a considerable margin. He was fourth in the AL in fWAR and eight in bWAR. All this while pitching in a hitter's park - a more extreme hitter's park than Yankee Stadium, to boot.

    Are you suggesting 2011 was a fluke? Fine. In 2010, his ERA, FIP, xFIP, K/9, and GB% were all above-average. He wasn't quite as good, to be sure, but it was also his first full season as a starting pitcher. Oh, and he still managed to rank ninth in fWAR and eighth in bWAR.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Domenic View Post
    In what world is C.J. Wilson an average pitcher?

    This year, Wilson posted a 2.94 ERA (32% better than league-average), a 3.24 FIP (24% better than league-average), and a 3.41 xFIP (16% better than league-average). His strikeout rate, walk rate, K/BB, and groundball rater were all above-average, and by a considerable margin. He was fourth in the AL in fWAR and eight in bWAR. All this while pitching in a hitter's park - a more extreme hitter's park than Yankee Stadium, to boot.

    Are you suggesting 2011 was a fluke? Fine. In 2010, his ERA, FIP, xFIP, K/9, and GB% were all above-average. He wasn't quite as good, to be sure, but it was also his first full season as a starting pitcher. Oh, and he still managed to rank ninth in fWAR and eighth in bWAR.
    He had one good year big woo. Have u seen his postseason era this year 5.40 he got rocked in game 1 against the rays 6 runs he gave up 6 runs also to the tigers. All of them earned.By the way he gave up six hr this postseason. So yea I want a very good pitcher.

  20. #45
    Darvish is unquestionably the best target. If he had the numbers he had this year in AA he would be a top prospect. In AAA he'd be Matt Moore. A far better pitcher than Dice K.

    And anyone who suggests Fielded is smoking something.

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  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by jeter2 View Post
    He had one good year big woo. Have u seen his postseason era this year 5.40 he got rocked in game 1 against the rays 6 runs he gave up 6 runs also to the tigers. All of them earned.By the way he gave up six hr this postseason. So yea I want a very good pitcher.
    Yeah anyone who has a bad possession is garbage. Get rid of anyone with under a .600 Ops.

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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeter2 View Post
    He had one good year big woo. Have u seen his postseason era this year 5.40 he got rocked in game 1 against the rays 6 runs he gave up 6 runs also to the tigers. All of them earned.By the way he gave up six hr this postseason. So yea I want a very good pitcher.
    So ... you're just going to gloss over the fact that he was well above-average in 2010?

    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Darvish is unquestionably the best target. If he had the numbers he had this year in AA he would be a top prospect. In AAA he'd be Matt Moore. A far better pitcher than Dice K.
    I'm not sure I agree with that.

    There are quite a few issues with players coming from Japan. The ball weighs more in MLB, the seams are more pronounced, and the ball itself is more slippery (having a smoother surface). More travel days. Longer travel times. More frequent starts. Smaller ballparks. In terms of competition, Japan is probably on-par with Double-A - but there are more factors to consider than competition. While none of these factors necessarily spell doom for Darvish, we have seen from past experiences that the transition is far from easy.

    Darvish's past three seasons, as per RLYW's Major League equivalent formulations, comes out to a 3.31 ERA and 3.78 FIP (with the most optimistic calculation calling for a 3.10 FIP). Over the past two years, C.J. Wilson's actual MLB line features a 3.14 ERA and 3.40 FIP. Wilson is also a LHP (quite beneficial in NYS) that picks up an above-average amount of grounders (quite beneficial in NYS). In addition to being more of a 'sure thing,' Wilson's been about as good, if not better than Darvish's MLE's.

    There are two edges that many cite in comparing the two - Darvish is six years younger and will not cost a draft pick. The latter is undeniable, for what it's worth. As for the former, however ... Darvish has thrown more professional innings than Wilson (1268.1 IP to 1145.1). Those innings are also concentrated over fewer years, meaning more wear and tear.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Domenic View Post
    So ... you're just going to gloss over the fact that he was well above-average in 2010?



    I'm not sure I agree with that.

    There are quite a few issues with players coming from Japan. The ball weighs more in MLB, the seams are more pronounced, and the ball itself is more slippery (having a smoother surface). More travel days. Longer travel times. More frequent starts. Smaller ballparks. In terms of competition, Japan is probably on-par with Double-A - but there are more factors to consider than competition. While none of these factors necessarily spell doom for Darvish, we have seen from past experiences that the transition is far from easy.

    Darvish's past three seasons, as per RLYW's Major League equivalent formulations, comes out to a 3.31 ERA and 3.78 FIP (with the most optimistic calculation calling for a 3.10 FIP). Over the past two years, C.J. Wilson's actual MLB line features a 3.14 ERA and 3.40 FIP. Wilson is also a LHP (quite beneficial in NYS) that picks up an above-average amount of grounders (quite beneficial in NYS). In addition to being more of a 'sure thing,' Wilson's been about as good, if not better than Darvish's MLE's.

    There are two edges that many cite in comparing the two - Darvish is six years younger and will not cost a draft pick. The latter is undeniable, for what it's worth. As for the former, however ... Darvish has thrown more professional innings than Wilson (1268.1 IP to 1145.1). Those innings are also concentrated over fewer years, meaning more wear and tear.
    Darvish also has more of a track record. Granted Wilson did it in the AL. While I am skeptical of Japanese players in general, even if Darvish bombs as badly as Dice K, he'd still be excellent (also per rlyw.net)

    Wilson's control issues bother me. Plus as you mentioned the draft pick, but don't forget the luxury tax. While we would likely pay as much for Darvish as Wilson, no tax on posting. Not my money but I'd rather the Yanks spend their money wisely.

    While we have been burned by Japanese pitchers before, we have also been burned by _.J. pitchers before too. And I see that as more of a similarity.

  24. #49
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    First, I want to see Montero have a shot at being our back up next year. I am not happy Joe did not play him and Betrances more at the end. I don't want to trade him unless it's Verlander (and that's not going to happen).
    I want to say something about BoSox. Because I hate this team I follow every move. Listening to Henry, this collapse was from top all the way down. I can NOT believe they can't even get this compensation done with the Cubs. Do they think Theo is going to do his BoSox GM job next year? I do think there will be a fire sale but I don't want Ortiz (like earlier post trying to get more money) This drama is almost like Bronx is Burning.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Domenic View Post
    So ... you're just going to gloss over the fact that he was well above-average in 2010?



    I'm not sure I agree with that.

    There are quite a few issues with players coming from Japan. The ball weighs more in MLB, the seams are more pronounced, and the ball itself is more slippery (having a smoother surface). More travel days. Longer travel times. More frequent starts. Smaller ballparks. In terms of competition, Japan is probably on-par with Double-A - but there are more factors to consider than competition. While none of these factors necessarily spell doom for Darvish, we have seen from past experiences that the transition is far from easy.

    Darvish's past three seasons, as per RLYW's Major League equivalent formulations, comes out to a 3.31 ERA and 3.78 FIP (with the most optimistic calculation calling for a 3.10 FIP). Over the past two years, C.J. Wilson's actual MLB line features a 3.14 ERA and 3.40 FIP. Wilson is also a LHP (quite beneficial in NYS) that picks up an above-average amount of grounders (quite beneficial in NYS). In addition to being more of a 'sure thing,' Wilson's been about as good, if not better than Darvish's MLE's.

    There are two edges that many cite in comparing the two - Darvish is six years younger and will not cost a draft pick. The latter is undeniable, for what it's worth. As for the former, however ... Darvish has thrown more professional innings than Wilson (1268.1 IP to 1145.1). Those innings are also concentrated over fewer years, meaning more wear and tear.
    I don't want cj Wilson as a Yankees. I want pitcher is damn good like Felix Hernandez. He's one of the best in the business. As for darvish I like him However its big risk signing a japanesse player especially a pitcher.

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