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Thread: The Off-Season: 2011-2012 Edition

  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Correct. Especially pitchers with elbow problems and slide heavy approaches. Hope he makes it.
    randy johnson also had a slider as a secondary pitch. and his career was quite long. it is true that a lot of slider pitchers have elbow problems though because with the classic slider you supinate the forearm which stresses the elbow (former CY winner mike marshall wrote a lot about this and emphazises pronation of the forearm to save the elbow/UCL).

    I think clemens also threw a pronated slider but I'm not sure.

    Still not every slider pitcher has problems some like johnson have a very long career.

    and you are right that elite hitters are usually higher paid then elite pitchers. but is montero really a future elite hitter?
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    randy johnson also had a slider as a secondary pitch. and his career was quite long. it is true that a lot of slider pitchers have elbow problems though because with the classic slider you supinate the forearm which stresses the elbow (former CY winner mike marshall wrote a lot about this and emphazises pronation of the forearm to save the elbow/UCL).

    I think clemens also threw a pronated slider but I'm not sure.

    Still not every slider pitcher has problems some like johnson have a very long career.

    and you are right that elite hitters are usually higher paid then elite pitchers. but is montero really a future elite hitter?
    Throwing a slide does not mean that's all you have. Pineda just has that and a fastball. You need more. Two pitches are not usually enough.
    It gives less deception and means more sliders.

    Will Montero become elite? Don't know but he has a good chance. Great swing. Opposite field power. Not a hacker. Low strikes rates.

    Will Pineda become an elite pitcher? Maybe but he is going to need to develop a change. Don't ask Hughes or Aj to teach him.

  3. #383
    Maybe Rivera can teach him the slider.

  4. #384
    That would be a cutter and not what I think he needs. He really needs a change to become elite. He can be good without one. Hughes won 18 games and pitched fine that year. AJ has had a decent career. But if Pineda turns out that way, it was a bad trade. As Cashman said, the deal is a bust if he cannot develop a change up. He is young. He has time. We'll see.

  5. #385

    Jorge Soler

    As I thought about the Montero-Pineda deal, one thing struck me as possibly making sense.

    This should (better) make the Yanks pursue Soler harder. He projects as a strong corner outfielder with great power. At 19, he has a long way to go.

    I'm not crazy about Cespedes. Too old for the transition IMO, but I think Soler might be something. Or he might be Juan Miranda. But worth taking a shot at this year with the lack of upper level bats and the change to the CBA.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    That would be a cutter and not what I think he needs. He really needs a change to become elite. He can be good without one. Hughes won 18 games and pitched fine that year. AJ has had a decent career. But if Pineda turns out that way, it was a bad trade. As Cashman said, the deal is a bust if he cannot develop a change up. He is young. He has time. We'll see.
    Meant cutter typed slider.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by lhslancers View Post
    Meant cutter typed slider.
    well I think it does not make sense to throw a cutter and a slider (especially since both are hard on the elbow depending on how you throw them).

    a cutter is basically a hard slider.

    as it has been said the best thing to complement his slider would be a change. this is because the change is a change in speed (slider and FB are relatively hard pitches) and usually it breaks to the pitching arm side while the slider/cutter break to the glove side. if you can break the ball to both sides of the plate you are really dangerous.

    halladay is the best in doing this. he his throwing a pronated two seamer that moves to the pitching arm side (in on righties) and a cutter that breaks to the other side. that makes it really tough.

    A curve would work too but I think a change would be the best option.
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    well I think it does not make sense to throw a cutter and a slider (especially since both are hard on the elbow depending on how you throw them).

    a cutter is basically a hard slider.

    as it has been said the best thing to complement his slider would be a change. this is because the change is a change in speed (slider and FB are relatively hard pitches) and usually it breaks to the pitching arm side while the slider/cutter break to the glove side. if you can break the ball to both sides of the plate you are really dangerous.

    halladay is the best in doing this. he his throwing a pronated two seamer that moves to the pitching arm side (in on righties) and a cutter that breaks to the other side. that makes it really tough.

    A curve would work too but I think a change would be the best option.

    And he does have a change, and even a two seamer. He just rarely uses either. Maybe the Yanks work with him. He was rushed last year. Other than public relations wise it would almost make sense to start him at Scranton until AJ blows up. But they won't do that.

  9. #389
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    Pineda has two secondary pitches that for a while he didn't have to rely on as stated above. He'll get to know fairly quickly that those two pitches are going to need to be developed to have good success, much like Ivan Nova had to learn the hard way

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by darbypitcher22 View Post
    Pineda has two secondary pitches that for a while he didn't have to rely on as stated above. He'll get to know fairly quickly that those two pitches are going to need to be developed to have good success, much like Ivan Nova had to learn the hard way
    Or Phil Hughes hasn't. Or Aj hasn't.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by darbypitcher22 View Post
    Pineda has two secondary pitches that for a while he didn't have to rely on as stated above. He'll get to know fairly quickly that those two pitches are going to need to be developed to have good success, much like Ivan Nova had to learn the hard way
    any pitcher has two secondary pitches. AJ also has two secondary pitches.

    the big thing is to have GOOD secondary pitches that the batter respects. you are in trouble when hitters lay of your secondary pitches and sit on your fastball. that's what happens with AJ. he has a great curve but since he only throws about every third of those into the zone hitters don't respect it and just wait for the fastball.

    however pineda doesnt seem to have any control issues to date. so this should not be much of a problem.
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

  12. #392
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    Kevin Whelan has been DFA'd to make room on the 40 man roster for Hiroki Kuroda. He was the last guy left from the Gary Sheffield trade with the Tigers. Trading for prospects is always risky but in the rare cases where Cashman gets to be the seller instead of the buyer he seems to have a bit of a rough time. The only other two deals I can think of like this are the Robin Ventura for Scott Proctor and Bubba Crosby deal and the one that sent Randy Johnson back to the Diamondbacks for Luis Vizcaino, Steven Jackson, Ross Ohlendorf and Alberto Gonzalez.
    Lets Go Yankees, Valley Cats, Dutchmen, UT Spartans and ECU Pirates.

  13. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    Considering Jason Bay for A.J. Burnett:
    http://riveraveblues.com/2012/01/rev...ay-idea-62483/

    .
    Funny. You know how everybody says it's a "win - win situation". This would be a "lose - lose situation". You know I do feel he has the ability and be good in NL but some pitchers have a hard time in NY. The guy that bothers me the most was Pavano.

    I am resigned to the high probability AJ will start the season in the rotation and Hughes in the pen.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by clipper View Post
    Funny. You know how everybody says it's a "win - win situation". This would be a "lose - lose situation". You know I do feel he has the ability and be good in NL but some pitchers have a hard time in NY. The guy that bothers me the most was Pavano.

    I am resigned to the high probability AJ will start the season in the rotation and Hughes in the pen.
    I would almost like to move Burnett just to avoid that. OTOH, if he starts the season like he did the last two years, he may well garner much more interest. But then would Cashman deal him or hope he keeps it up? The one other thing to consider is Burnett was terribly unlucky last year. His xFIP was actually very good. If his HR/FB rate goes back to his career rate, he might be a good (even very good) pitcher.

  15. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    I would almost like to move Burnett just to avoid that. OTOH, if he starts the season like he did the last two years, he may well garner much more interest. But then would Cashman deal him or hope he keeps it up? The one other thing to consider is Burnett was terribly unlucky last year. His xFIP was actually very good. If his HR/FB rate goes back to his career rate, he might be a good (even very good) pitcher.
    I agree (he has the ability) and having Nova, Pineda, and Kuroda in the line up behind CC should take off some of the pressure. If, if if - we could have a great rotation this year.

  16. #396
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    Looks like Kim Jones is out at YES. No word on who will be replacing her on pre and post game shows.

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...ears-1.3476702
    Lets Go Yankees, Valley Cats, Dutchmen, UT Spartans and ECU Pirates.

  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggtone23 View Post
    Looks like Kim Jones is out at YES. No word on who will be replacing her on pre and post game shows.

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...ears-1.3476702
    It's a rough job and like baseball I think it come down to money (contract). You have to have looks and know sports. Seven years so she did very good, ready to move on. Hazel May of Boston left and went to MLB and now I don't see her. I read Kim is going to NFL. The replacement will be pleasant, younger and another blonde.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggtone23 View Post
    Looks like Kim Jones is out at YES. No word on who will be replacing her on pre and post game shows.

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...ears-1.3476702
    Strange as she has been on Francesa's Yes show a lot lately. I think she did a decent job.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by clipper View Post
    I agree (he has the ability) and having Nova, Pineda, and Kuroda in the line up behind CC should take off some of the pressure. If, if if - we could have a great rotation this year.
    I am one that has a lot of faith in Hughes bouncing back. I think he needs his shot at the #5 spot rather than giving it to AJ. I think it is a service to trade him anywhere. He obviously can't do it consistantly in NY. We also have Garcia as a possible candidate for #5 or if/when someone goes on the DL.

    For once in a long while...too many starters with AJ. Lets not forget what is in the minors that might be up befor ethe end of July to make an impact. The smart money is to get anything you can for AJ and go forward rather than feel obligated with his big contract.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeRLA1968 View Post
    I am one that has a lot of faith in Hughes bouncing back. I think he needs his shot at the #5 spot rather than giving it to AJ. I think it is a service to trade him anywhere. He obviously can't do it consistantly in NY. We also have Garcia as a possible candidate for #5 or if/when someone goes on the DL.

    For once in a long while...too many starters with AJ. Lets not forget what is in the minors that might be up befor ethe end of July to make an impact. The smart money is to get anything you can for AJ and go forward rather than feel obligated with his big contract.
    Agree 100%. Also besides Banuelos and betances there is also Phelps and Warren who are pretty much ready now. The Garcia signing was incredibly stupid.

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