New Draft League(?)

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

First, I'd like to thank ian2183 for a splendid job running the last draft despite being stationed halfway across the world. Congrats to our winner, Matthew C.

Ian and myself toyed with a few ideas for another draft. A lot of the previous drafters seemed eager to start another, so here are our ideas:

1) Players who've played for at least 4 teams- Tyrus4189Cobb
2) Players who've missed at least one entire season- Tyrus4189Cobb
3) Players with less than 12 years played- Tyrus4189Cobb
4) Under 50 WAR Draft- ian2813
5) Newfangled Player Per Team Draft- ian2813
6) World Series Losers Draft- ian2813
7) All-Time [insert franchise here] Player Seasons Draft- ian2813
8) Anti-Draft- ian2813
9) All-Time Uniform Number Draft- ian2813
10) All-Time Foreign-Born Draft- ian2813
11) Player Per State Draft- ian2813

Number five refers to a Player Per Team draft like before, only with more expansion teams. Number eight refers to building the worst teams possible (though it's more of a jest).

Feel free to contribute ideas and I hope to start a new draft soon. Again, I'm willing to run it, but I give priority to anyone who wishes to take a turn at hosting.

[ian2813]

Thanks for posting my ideas, Tyrus!

I just thought I should clarify what some of these draft proposals are in case there's any confusion.

7) All-Time [insert franchise here] Player Seasons Draft

What we'd do is choose a franchise, then draft player seasons from that franchise only. The challenge would be that each year in the franchise's history can only be selected from a limited number of times, and each player can only be selected once.

Let's say we chose the Yankees as our franchise and there was a limit of two picks from each year. If one person picks 1921 Babe Ruth and another person picks 1921 Carl Mays, both players are off the board, as well as any future picks from 1921. Since Ruth played left field, center field, first base and pitcher that year, he could be used as a starter or backup at any of those positions by the person who picks him.

We'd judge each team by how well we think they'd do over the course of a full season.

9) All-Time Uniform Number Draft

An all-time draft where each participant may only select one player per uniform number. Since most players change uniform numbers at some point in their careers, we could make a rule that the player had to have worn the number for a certain number of seasons to be selected for it. Uniform number information is available through Baseball Almanac and Baseball-Reference, so if you weren't sure, you could look it up in one of those places.

10) All-Time Foreign-Born Draft

Baseball may be America's National Pastime, but many other countries have contributed to the game's rich history. In this all-time draft you could only select players born outside the United States. It would undoubtedly be dominated by Latino players, but there are many good choices from non-Latin countries too.

11) Player Per State Draft

In this draft you could only select one player per U.S. state of birth. The limit may not seem too constrictive with 50 states to choose from (plus Washington, D.C.), but many states aren't particularly deep in talent while others have more than enough of it, so some strategy would definitely be involved.

[ian2813]

This isn't some sort of official vote or anything, but the ones that interest me most among this group are numbers 1, 2, 7 and 11. Of course, I'd be willing to do any of them (except perhaps Anti-Draft).

[chicagowhitesox1173]

I like the world series losers draft.

[Wade8813]

7) All-Time [insert franchise here] Player Seasons Draft

What we'd do is choose a franchise, then draft player seasons from that franchise only. The challenge would be that each year in the franchise's history can only be selected from a limited number of times, and each player can only be selected once.

Let's say we chose the Yankees as our franchise and there was a limit of two picks from each year. If one person picks 1921 Babe Ruth and another person picks 1921 Carl Mays, both players are off the board, as well as any future picks from 1921. Since Ruth played left field, center field, first base and pitcher that year, he could be used as a starter or backup at any of those positions by the person who picks him.

We'd judge each team by how well we think they'd do over the course of a full season.

9) All-Time Uniform Number Draft

An all-time draft where each participant may only select one player per uniform number. Since most players change uniform numbers at some point in their careers, we could make a rule that the player had to have worn the number for a certain number of seasons to be selected for it. Uniform number information is available through Baseball Almanac and Baseball-Reference, so if you weren't sure, you could look it up in one of those places.

10) All-Time Foreign-Born Draft

Baseball may be America's National Pastime, but many other countries have contributed to the game's rich history. In this all-time draft you could only select players born outside the United States. It would undoubtedly be dominated by Latino players, but there are many good choices from non-Latin countries too.

11) Player Per State Draft

In this draft you could only select one player per U.S. state of birth. The limit may not seem too constrictive with 50 states to choose from (plus Washington, D.C.), but many states aren't particularly deep in talent while others have more than enough of it, so some strategy would definitely be involved.

I think the Player per State draft might have enough to choose from. I think number 7 is almost certainly too constrictive, and wouldn't be surprised if #9 is (although I have no idea). With only one franchise, there's a very limited pool of players, and we're restricting it more by saying we can only pick X players from a certain year. And say we limit it to the Yankees, I'm pretty sure whoever picks Babe Ruth just won the entire draft, because he's so far ahead of his competition.

I'm uncertain whether or not I'll be able to participate.

[ian2813]

I think the Player per State draft might have enough to choose from. I think number 7 is almost certainly too constrictive, and wouldn't be surprised if #9 is (although I have no idea). With only one franchise, there's a very limited pool of players, and we're restricting it more by saying we can only pick X players from a certain year. And say we limit it to the Yankees, I'm pretty sure whoever picks Babe Ruth just won the entire draft, because he's so far ahead of his competition.

I'm uncertain whether or not I'll be able to participate.

The thing about #7 is that you wouldn't be drafting players based on their careers, you'd be drafting them based on individual seasons. Lots of guys have managed to put together outstanding seasons despite not finishing their careers as immortals. If, for instance, our team were the Tigers, you could draft 1961 Norm Cash and he'd be more valuable to you than Hank Greenberg in any of his best seasons. If we only had 6 to 8 people participating, there'd probably be enough good individual seasons for each team to have a suitable lineup. One thing I like about it is that our teams would end up looking more like real-life teams than All-Star teams.

I don't think #9 would be too constrictive. If anything, I don't think it'd be constrictive enough. I mean, it would eliminate everyone who played primarily before the uniform number era, but that still leaves plenty of good options, as there are more commonly-used numbers than roster spots to fill.

Besides those proposals I went into depth about, were there any others that sounded interesting to you, Wade?

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

I'm for anything, but I especially like 1,2,10, and 11. Shall we hold some sort of vote?

[ian2813]

I'm guessing we'll hold a vote once enough interested parties have weighed in on this thread.

[Wade8813]

The thing about #7 is that you wouldn't be drafting players based on their careers, you'd be drafting them based on individual seasons. Lots of guys have managed to put together outstanding seasons despite not finishing their careers as immortals. If, for instance, our team were the Tigers, you could draft 1961 Norm Cash and he'd be more valuable to you than Hank Greenberg in any of his best seasons. If we only had 6 to 8 people participating, there'd probably be enough good individual seasons for each team to have a suitable lineup. One thing I like about it is that our teams would end up looking more like real-life teams than All-Star teams.

Making it single season certainly helps, but teams usually only have at most a couple players at each position that're particularly good.

Let's use the Yankees as an example:
1B - Gehrig, Mattingly, Tino Martinez, Teixeira, Jason Giambi
2B - Cano, Knoblauch, Lazzeri
SS - Jeter
3B - A-Rod, Boggs, HR Baker
C - Berra, Posada, Dickey, Munson, Elston Howard
LF - Babe Ruth, Dave Winfield, Roy White, Bob Meusel
RF - Hank Bauer, Paul O'Neill, Gary Sheffield, Roger Maris, Willie Keeler,
CF - Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, Bernie Williams,
DH - Nick Johnson

Admittedly, this was a quick list, but not a single position has enough good players for even 6 teams. And there's a huge dropoff between Babe Ruth an Dave Winfield.

I don't think #9 would be too constrictive. If anything, I don't think it'd be constrictive enough. I mean, it would eliminate everyone who played primarily before the uniform number era, but that still leaves plenty of good options, as there are more commonly-used numbers than roster spots to fill.

Like I said, I don't know. But you're probably right.

Besides those proposals I went into depth about, were there any others that sounded interesting to you, Wade?

I'm not too interested in the under 50 WAR one.

The "Less than 12 years" might turn into "a bunch of modern players plus a few others". Which is fine, but I dunno if that's what you guys were hoping for.

Other than that (and what I mentioned before), they all seem alright.

[ian2813]

Making it single season certainly helps, but teams usually only have at most a couple players at each position that're particularly good.

Let's use the Yankees as an example:
1B - Gehrig, Mattingly, Tino Martinez, Teixeira, Jason Giambi
2B - Cano, Knoblauch, Lazzeri
SS - Jeter
3B - A-Rod, Boggs, HR Baker
C - Berra, Posada, Dickey, Munson, Elston Howard
LF - Babe Ruth, Dave Winfield, Roy White, Bob Meusel
RF - Hank Bauer, Paul O'Neill, Gary Sheffield, Roger Maris, Willie Keeler,
CF - Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, Bernie Williams,
DH - Nick Johnson

Admittedly, this was a quick list, but not a single position has enough good players for even 6 teams. And there's a huge dropoff between Babe Ruth an Dave Winfield.

Some guys you forgot:

C - Wynegar, Stanley, Schang
1B - Chase, Pipp, Skowron, Chambliss
2B - Williams, Randolph, Soriano, Gordon, Stirnweiss, Pratt
3B - Rolfe, Boyer, Nettles, Brosius, Ventura, Sewell, Maisel, Conroy
SS - Rizzuto, Dent, Kubek, Tresh, McDougald, Peckinpaugh, Elberfeld, Crosetti
LF - Keller, Chapman, Cree, Woodling
CF - Combs, Rivers, Henderson, Murcer, Granderson
RF - Henrich, Selkirk, Barfield, Jackson, Bonds

You're not looking for great players, you're looking for anyone who ever had a good season at the position for the team. Some of these guys' best seasons were as good as the best seasons of the guys who had the better overall careers.

[ian2813]

I'm surprised there's not more discussion on this thread. Anybody else? Do you have any draft ideas? Are there any ideas on this list that appeal to you?

[John Shoemaker]

How about a draft where there is no minimum number of games played at a position. Many of the drafts I've been in there is always an argument about which position a player is eligible to play at or an argumemt about minimum number of games played at that position. What about a draft where there is no minimum. If you draft a player you can play him at any position you want provided he has played at that position sometime during his career.

Example: If I draft Pete Rose. He has played: 939 games at first base, 628 games at second base, 634 games at third base, 673 games in left field, 73 games in center field, and 590 games in right field.

Why not have a draft where I can draft him and play him in any one of those positions even my center fielder if I choose?

[ian2813]

How about a draft where there is no minimum number of games played at a position. Many of the drafts I've been in there is always an argument about which position a player is eligible to play at or an argumemt about minimum number of games played at that position. What about a draft where there is no minimum. If you draft a player you can play him at any position you want provided he has played at that position sometime during his career.

Example: If I draft Pete Rose. He has played: 939 games at first base, 628 games at second base, 634 games at third base, 673 games in left field, 73 games in center field, and 590 games in right field.

Why not have a draft where I can draft him and play him in any one of those positions even my center fielder if I choose?

You'd definitely end up with some interesting lineups. Of course, we'd probably have to take into account how well we think the player would do at that position full-time when voting.

[BigRon]

I'm definitely interested in another draft league. I haven't given much thought to the format yet.

[Matthew C.]

What would #5 look like?

[ian2813]

What would #5 look like?

Glad you asked! The Newfangled Player Per Team Draft would work just like the original Player Per Team Draft, except the franchise pool would be constructed differently. You would have to make one selection from each of:

All 14 expansion franchises
All six modern-era franchises that are no longer in their 1903 cities
The four 1903-city franchises that introduced cookie-cutter ballparks in the late-'60s/early-'70s
One Wild Card of the three remaining teams that have newer ballparks at least ten years old

For the "Original 16" franchises that are included, the cutoffs for the players to meet the minimum-game requirements would follow the "newfangled" changes the franchises made, whether moving to a new city or a new ballpark.

In other words, the franchise pool would be:

Arizona Diamondbacks
Atlanta/Milwaukee Braves (1953-present)
Baltimore Orioles (1954-present)
Cincinnati Reds (1970-present)
Colorado Rockies
Florida Marlins
Houston Astros/Colt .45s
Kansas City Royals
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim/Los Angeles/California/Anaheim Angels
Los Angeles Dodgers (1958-present)
Milwaukee Brewers/Seattle Pilots
Minnesota Twins (1961-present)
New York Mets
Oakland/Kansas City Athletics (1955-present)
Philadelphia Phillies (1971-present)
Pittsburgh Pirates (1970-present)
San Diego Padres
San Francisco Giants (1958-present)
Seattle Mariners
St. Louis Cardinals (1966-present)
Tampa Bay Rays/Devil Rays
Texas Rangers/Washington Senators (1961-present)
Toronto Blue Jays
Washington Nationals/Montreal Expos
Wild Card of either Chicago White Sox (1991-present), Cleveland Indians (1994-present) or Detroit Tigers (2000-present)

So for instance, if you wanted to pick from the Giants, you could take Willie Mays, since he spent most of his career in San Francisco (and would certainly meet the minimum-game requirement), but you couldn't take Mel Ott, because he spent his entire career in New York. If you were picking from the Pirates, you could draft Willie Stargell, since he played a significant amount of his career in Three Rivers Stadium, but not Roberto Clemente, as he would likely fall short of the minimum.

It's a bit complicated, I know, but the original draft that it's based on was a blast, and this is just a new spin on it.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

#5 sounds like a good one to do. Especially due to it being a little complicated would make it more strategic.

[ian2813]

Perhaps we should do the vote now, since more people have commented in this thread. How would be the best way to do it? Rank your top 3 choices, or something like that?

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Sounds good to me. Three points for your top choice, that ordeal? If so:

1) Player per State
2) Players who've played for 4+ teams
3) Players who've missed an entire season

[ian2813]

Sounds good to me. Three points for your top choice, that ordeal?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Here's my vote:

1) Player Per State
2) Players Who've Played For at Least Four Teams (Could we give this one a catchy title? The Nomad Draft? I dunno.)
3) Newfangled Player Per Team Draft

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Players Who've Played For at Least Four Teams (Could we give this one a catchy title? The Nomad Draft? I dunno.)

I like it!

[Matthew C.]

I think a WS losers draft would be good on the heels of the WS winners draft. But I would want to start in about a week and a half so I could pick up Albert Pujols again.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

Yeah I like the WS losers draft too and #5 would be my 2nd choice followed by the players on 4 teams draft.

[ian2813]

I think a WS losers draft would be good on the heels of the WS winners draft. But I would want to start in about a week and a half so I could pick up Albert Pujols again.

What, he's not available from 2004?

[Matthew C.]

What, he's not available from 2004?

Oh yeah, forgot about that one?

Well, Carp would be available for the first time, at least...for the bottom of the draft.