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Thread: 2009 Best of Baseball election thread

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Domenic View Post
    Kevin Brown is an intriguing candidate ... both in terms of how well he fares in WAR and how polarizing his candidacy is within this community. I won't go too in-depth here, as this isn't the proper venue, but I feel that he'll reach my ballot sooner rather than later, but I'm unsure as to how high he'll place.

    As for the contributors, I shall once more stump for Frank Jobe.

    While I am sure many or most feel that I am far too aggressive with placing him atop my ballot, I think the number of players who were 'saved' by Jobe's groundbreaking surgery speaks volumes on his contribution to the game. The list includes several players that have or will garner serious consideration (and perhaps induction) in this very project - John Franco, Tim Hudson, Tommy John, Paul Molitor, John Smoltz, and Billy Wagner come to mind. Countless players have had the surgery in high school or college, allowing them a shot to reach professional baseball that they otherwise would not have enjoyed.
    Countless fans enjoy Jack Norworth's Take Me Out to the Ballgame every 7th inning of every game. Why should Jobe get a nod over him? One can argue Norworth's influence is much more far reaching than Jobe.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    Countless fans enjoy Jack Norworth's Take Me Out to the Ballgame every 7th inning of every game. Why should Jobe get a nod over him? One can argue Norworth's influence is much more far reaching than Jobe.
    Somewhere between one-hundred and fifty and three-hundred Major Leaguers have had Tommy John Surgery and were able to re-start their careers, to varying degrees of success. Without Jobe's medical advancements, most of these players would never have been able to play in the Majors again. As per Baseball Prospectus, between 2002 and 2003 a tick over 10% of pitchers to appear in a game had had the procedure. That's a fairly significant portion of players.

    Beyond the Majors, it's sort of a foggy area to see how many players are having the procedure. However, James Andrews estimates that he performed over one-thousand procedures on amateur players over the past decade, and that a sizable majority of those players are currently playing professionally. That may not be a significant percentage of all minor leaguers, but it's worth considering.

    To me, when 10% of all Major League pitchers required Tommy John Surgery, Jobe's impact on the product on the field has been considerable. This is growing more and more true over time, as more and more players are having the procedure. And, again, these players may have never had a shot at the Majors, let alone the ability to return to the Majors.

    As for the Norworth-Jobe comparison, I feel that we're comparing two very different contributions. Norworth may put more butts in the seats (or maybe keep more butts in the seats over a long game), but Jobe is keeping players on the field.

  3. #23
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    Players:

    1. Barry Larkin
    2. Lou Brock
    3. Luis Aparicio
    4. Eppa Rixey
    5. Wally Berger
    6. Sal Bando
    7. Bruce Sutter
    8. Dan Quisenberry
    9. Will Clark
    10. Kirby Puckett
    11. Ray Dandridge
    12. Chino Smith

    Contributors:

    1. David Neft
    2. Shigeru Mizuhara
    3. Tony LaRussa
    4. Alex Pompez
    5. Doug Harvey

  4. #24
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    If we have no changes in ballots, we will require 10 contributor ballots to elect anyone. With 8 ballots, the top two are tied, which means the ninth vote cannot push one candidate far enough ahead to ensure election with a mythical 10th vote.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  5. #25
    Bummer. Maybe Brad will come out of the woodwork and post another vote. He seems to disappear around this time of the year.

  6. #26
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    I've sent a PM to JW, the only voter from last election yet to vote this time. Hopefully, we'll get his vote and meet the player quorum, at least. Also, his vote is critical to having a chance at saving the contributor ballot, IMHO.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  7. #27
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    Players

    1. Barry Bonds
    2. Barry Larkin
    3. Rafael Palmeiro

    4. Eppa Rixey
    5. Will Clark
    6. Joe Sewell
    7. Rollie Fingers
    8. Luis Aparicio
    9. Wally Berger
    10. Billy Pierce
    11. Kirby Puckett
    12. Graig Nettles

    Darrell Evans joins Lee Smith and Dale Murphy on the backlog as we get into the thick of the steroid era candidates.

    Contributors

    1. John Schuerholz
    2. George Steinbrenner
    3. Davey Johnson
    4. Billy Martin
    5. Pat Gillick

    No change. It would be a small travesty if we get this far into the Contributor Ballot only to abandon it three "years" before we go annual. I nominate we continue forward and get it up to date.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by J W View Post
    It would be a small travesty if we get this far into the Contributor Ballot only to abandon it three "years" before we go annual. I nominate we continue forward and get it up to date.
    Well, we wouldn't be electing anyone for four years. I'm not changing the rules we've worked under (would be able to be elected with at least 10 votes), and I don't like wasting my time or the time of others. If the interest isn't there, it's not there. That's a shame, I agree, but that's the way it is. If you want to do something about it, find us a tenth voter for the contributor ballot. BTW, that statement applies to anyone else who wants to see the contributor ballot continue until we go annual.

    I didn't envision having this many contributor elections (I was originally going to have 1 every three years after 1985). I altered that plan. I also made it so that if mythical voter(s) who brought us up to 10 votes in an election wouldn't change the outcome, the outcome would stand and I wouldn't count such an election toward ending the ballot. We also scrambled through one election prior to the 2000's where the contributor ballot was on the chopping block. I've always tried to remind voters to vote, both in the thread and by PM. I've done my share to try and keep this ballot alive, but if there aren't enough voters to sustain it, I daresay I've earned the right to end it as well, and with no apologies.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  9. #29
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    Didn't mean it as a dig at you Jim. You're the one doing the vast majority of the work and it's your call.

    If anyone out there who's been reading these threads hasn't voted for contributors yet, please do!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by J W View Post
    Didn't mean it as a dig at you Jim. You're the one doing the vast majority of the work and it's your call.

    If anyone out there who's been reading these threads hasn't voted for contributors yet, please do!
    Thanks. I'm sorry, but when somebody says I can't do something like shut down that part of the ballot under these circumstances, well, I tend, rightly or not, to take it a bit personally and react accordingly. I really hate to shut it down, but in truth, I hate to waste my time even more.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  11. #31
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    Here's a thought - we can try testing out the contributor's vote when we go annual and see if a longer period of time (a month?) gets us ten votes.

  12. #32
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    I can see something like a minimum of 2 weeks, a maximum of a month, but ending it if we exceed both 9 votes and 2 weeks. I'll even think about doing one last contributor ballot under those conditions for 2010 and 2011.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  13. #33
    Contributor Ballot
    1 George Steinbrenner
    2 Billy Martin
    3 David Neft
    4 Gene Mauch
    5 Red Smith

  14. #34
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    With the late ballot by joggerdru (thanks, btw!), we have enough votes to make both halves of the ballot official. We elected Barry Bonds, Will Clark and Barry Larkin on the player ballot, and George Steinbrenner on the contributor ballot. Steinbrenner had a tie in points with David Neft, and each was favored on four ballots. That meant we went to the second tiebreaker, which is the raw number of votes, which Steinbrenner won 6-5. Now, here are the official results, player ballot first:

    Code:
    players……………….	votes	points
    Larkin, Barry	10	110
    Bonds, Barry	9	107
    Clark, Will	9	57
    Brock, Lou	5	43
    Bando, Sal	5	39
    Rixey, Eppa	6	36
    Aparicio, Luis	5	33
    McGriff, Fred	3	28
    Palmiero, R	4	27
    Shocker, Urban	4	27
    Puckett, Kirby	4	24
    Beckley , Jake	3	23
    Mullane , Tony	4	22
    Berger , Wally	3	20
    Pierce, Billy	5	15
    Duffy , Hugh	2	13
    Dandridge, Ray	4	11
    Sutter, Bruce	3	11
    Nettles, Graig	3	10
    Saberhagen, B	1	10
    Grimes , B	2	9
    Lundy , Dick	1	9
    Evans, Darrell	1	8
    Leach , Tommy	1	8
    Randolph, W	2	8
    Munson, Thurman	1	7
    Quisenberry, D	2	7
    Sewell , Joe	1	7
    Fingers, Rollie	1	6
    Gomez, Lefty	1	6
    Bonds, Bobby	1	5
    Howard, Frank	1	5
    Cepeda, Orlando	1	4
    Murphy, Dale	1	4
    Newcombe, Don	1	4
    Perez, Tony	2	4
    Smith, Chino	3	4
    Jones, Charley	1	3
    Campaneris, B	1	2
    Evers, Johnny	1	2
    Pike, Lip	1	1
    Rice, Sam	1	1
    And the contributor ballot:
    Code:
    contributors……………	votes	pts
    Steinbrenner, G	6	20
    Neft, David	5	20
    LaRussa, Tony	4	17
    Gillick, Pat	6	12
    Mizuhara, S	5	9
    Schuerhotlz, J	3	9
    Harvey, Doug	3	7
    Smith, Red	3	7
    Martin, Billy	3	7
    Harris , Bucky	1	5
    Jobe, Frank	1	5
    Pompez, Alex	2	5
    Harwell, Ernie	1	4
    McCarthy, Tommy	1	4
    O'Doul, Lefty	1	4
    Pesky, Johnny	1	4
    Johnson, Davey	1	3
    Mauch, Gene	1	2
    Uecker, Bob	1	1
    Last edited by jalbright; 10-22-2011 at 10:27 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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