Are travel teams worth it for ballplayers that haven't yet reached playing on the big diamond yet?
Registered User
Are travel teams worth it for ballplayers that haven't yet reached playing on the big diamond yet?
Registered User
By "worth it", you mean are they worth the time and money?
Or are you asking whether they are harmful or helpful for the player?
Registered User
You will get plenty of responses from both camps, but I think it all comes down to this:
Who is this really for?
- Parents?
- Coaches?
- Kids?
My son played one season of travel ball (age 7) with a team that he didn't know the players going in. He much prefers rec ball because his friends are either on our team or on other teams in the league.
For a travel team, here are a couple of things I would take into consideration: While I'm very interested in working with a roster full of kids who really want to learn how to play the game better, I would only play six or seven tournaments that take place in the surrounding communities (approx. 30 miles max). Practice once or twice per week. And I would probably handpick the players. Take the parents personalities into account, too. A great player with parents who stir up trouble is a player I would avoid. Lots more to throw into the decision-making process.
My .02.
You'll hear pros and cons from guys here who have traveled (or are currently traveling) down that road.
Registered User
Around here (Forsyth Co, GA) they're almost mandatory if your son is an above average ballplayer and wants to play more than a dozen games, as the rec programs really peter out after age 10 or so. That's as much the fault of the uber-political rec programs as anything else, though, since what ends up happening is that we have a couple of dozen low-level travel programs playing in a league together with a relatively light tournament/travel schedule.
For a kid who's into it (mine has been talking about playing HS ball since he was 9), I'd say find the most competitive situation you can locally where he gets to play a lot. If that's travel cool, if it's LL that works too.
Baseball Dad
Based on past discussions on the board about travel ball, it sounds like it's really dependent upon where you live. Here in Phoenix half of our Little League play travel ball in the fall, and there are teams at all levels and age groups. I really like travel ball. I started a 9U team this fall, and I was able to recruit boys that were passionate about baseball and families that behaved themselves. (I even had an umpire compliment me on how classy my parents were in the stands.) We also play LL in the Spring. My sons enjoy LL for the community feel. All the coaches and players know each other, and we'll hang around the fields after our games to socialize. But generally the boys don't improve as much during the LL season. But I really like LL too.
My advice if you're thinking about travel ball at a younger age is don't pay a lot to have professional coaches. I've found they get as much from a knowlegeable volunteer dad coach. And find a team that focusses on player development and not on winning medals to feed the coach's ego.
Registered User
I am not a big fan of kids under 12/13 playing on travel teams year round. I made both my boys play all the sports and other activities as a youth, S****r, basketball, swimming, riding there skateboards, boy scouts, piano etc... as they got older I let them start to focus in on what sports they really wanted play in HS. One plays HS s****r and the other is head for HS to play baseball. You are only a kid once so I wanted my kids to enjoy themselves. I know some will say that baseball is all they want to do, but remember that is coming from a child, we as parents need to guide them in their decisions. Both my boys will tell you that they were glad we (parents) stepped in and had them do a lot of different stuff.Originally Posted by phillyinnj
Registered User
That, of course, is working from an assumption that you can't play other sports while playing travel ball. As most of you know, my team plays a very aggressive schedule. Still, not a single kid on my roster doesn't play another sport. Three play competitive soccer, six play football, and more than half of my roster plays on our competitive tournament basketball team together. Add to that that four are in the chess club, one plays competitive golf, and we still play a few baseball tournaments in the winter. They also all keep their grades up. As a team, we have a weekly mandatory study hall for those who don't. The biggest complaint from my kid is that he doesn't have enough time to play video games - not entirely a bad thing.
Registered User
I think there are too many variables to give one "right" answer to the original question. As azmatsfan said, it really depends on where you live and what kind of program is around you.
Here in Northern California there are 100's of teams, it seems. Each one has a different requirement for time commitment. Some only play in tourneys once a month and others play every other weekend with two practices a week.
If you are practicing a couple times a month and only having one tourney a month then you can probably play other sports. But if you are practicing twice a week and playing in games every other weekend, sure you can play other sports, but you will have to decide which sport to miss on those tourney weekends.
I've stated in the past the different levels of TB in my area and I can only assume that it is similar in other areas around the country. My opinion is to evaluate each situation and make the decision as a family.
To the original post:
I coached LL Juniors last year and I found that the players who played TB prior to coming to the big diamond had a better understanding of the game. It did not directly relate to their ability to throw harder, hit farther, run faster, etc... But it had to do with knowing their abilities and being confident. Specifically around stealing bases, pick-offs, hitting relay man, understanding situations, etc...Are travel teams worth it for ballplayers that haven't yet reached playing on the big diamond yet?
However, those that had not played TB quickly learned those nuances and were up to par with the other players in a matter of weeks. There were a few that still had problems with taking good lead offs or sliding and such, but I do not think travel ball would have helped for them either.
I say if you find a team that fits well with your beliefs about the game and your son/daughter is having fun, then go for it. But if the only teams around you are focused on winning (and you are focused on learning) or vice versa, or they want your child to commit 4 days a week and he/she wants to play basketball at the same time - then I say don't do it.
If you can find a team like Roothog's where they play competitive ball and have free time to pursue other interests, then that might be a team you consider.
But from my experience, it is not necessary for transitioning from 46/60 to 60/90 fields.
Registered User
I'd weigh 3 things out, and they all relate to allocating your son's time and interests:
1. What's your LL district like? LL is going to be less demanding of your son's time. Does your league's schedule provides a satisfactory (very subjective to you and your son) amount of games? Also, depending on the prospects of making all-stars, what's the outlook of playing some more competitive games within your district's tournament? If that's satisfactory to you guys then MHO is that it's a win-win to get that competitive experience without your son being married to it for an entire travel season.
2. What are his interests outside of baseball? My son played travel baseball last year. He's about as hard-core as any player of any age anywhere. That said, we missed out on a lot of weekend camping and fishing trips. Landing trophy trout on a fly rod is a close second to hitting a walk off grand slam or throwing a no hitter, so it's better than once again being married to a whole lot of tournaments maybe some of which he batted .300 and had balls hit off him that may not have landed yet.
3. Weigh how much, and the quality of, practice and conditioning that'll be traded off in lieu of playing more games. To me it's not just about having fun. It's about having fun and getting better. Both my son and I enjoy having the one on one time working on his game. I may not be the best coach, but no other coach talks to him on a daily basis about where he wants improve and what his goals are. I've hit him entire buckets of ground balls to his back hand and thrown entire buckets of balls to specific locations for BP. No one else is going to do that, and travel baseball cuts into that time.
Finally, if he pitches I'd at least give some thought and ask some questions about how much of that's going to happen. Be realistic too. If you think that good intentions are going to evolve into pushing him to win games - don't do it. My son had a shoulder injury as a 12 y/o. In response to that he worked really hard on the rest of his game to being a player first and a pitcher second. Still playing travel tournaments as a 13 y/o he had weekends where he'd make 3 pitching appearances in 2 days. That's insane. And don't think this doesn't happen, because it does - power plays by coaches to get kids (like my son) who'd rather not pitch that much to do so by restricting playing time at other positions if they don't. My son played on a fall team. At the first practice when the coaches asked what positions the kids played, my son told them basically every position except pitcher. He was the number 2 pitcher on the team. Coaches become very desperate for kids that can go to the mound and get outs.
There are two kinds of losers.....Those that don't do what they are told, and those that do only what they are told.
Registered User
I'm from your area. Unless it's recently changed most kids still play LL or CR. Some also play on USSSA teams in the Sunday Doubleheader League. Then as prep for all-stars they play in a couple of tournaments.
This is what we did (son playing in college now). He played in forty something games between LL and travel. It's very important to keep track of pitching between the rec league and travel over the course of the week.
I don't believe learning the nuances of open bases at thirteen is a big deal. In the preteen years all that matters is learning basic fundamentals of hitting, fielding and throwing along with building a passion for the game.
Chris Harvey (Germantown Academy) was the top college prospect from the area from the 2011 class. He's probably going to start at catcher as a freshman at Vanderbilt. Not only did he not play open bases until 13U, he didn't catch until 13U.
Registered User
By open bases you mean???
I'm just trying to see if it's worth it on a developmental level....
Registered User
I don't mean to speak for TG, but I'm sure he means "open bases" as in lead-offs, runners allowed to steal off the pitcher and pitchers allowed to pick, and so on. In LL (Majors and below) runners are not allowed to steal or come off the base until the ball crosses the plate. In Juniors (13+) they are allowed to lead-off, steal, etc... IOW - Open Bases.
I agree with TG, learning open bases early is nice, but not necessary from a development stand point. The kids will get it after a few weeks at the 60/90 field.
Registered User
50/70 with leads versus 46/60 and no leads. I coached both. My son played both. I don't feel the players we picked up at 13U who hadn't played open bases took that long to catch up. Moving to the 60/90 has a huge effect. There were kids who played open bases on the 50/70 who just weren't players on the 60/90 regardless of previous exposure to open bases. Regardless of what path you choose the cream will still rise to the top.
Registered User
Most travel ball doesn't jump from 50/70 to 60/90. They move to 54/80 which is a very good way to transition.
Registered User
You need to caveat that statememt with "where you live." I have never seen a 54/80 field. My son never played on one.
Registered User
We have 54/80 in my area. We had a very good player at the LL Majors and Minors level playing 46/60. He was one of the top 5 players in all 4 years at these levels. He played his first summer in TB this year at the 54/80 field and couldn't handle the distance nor the pitching. I am not sure if he will play in Juniors at 60/90 this spring of if he will return to TB at the 60/90 level.
I had average players at the majors level (46/60) move to juniors last spring and they did just fine. Not studs, but definitely held their own.
It really depends on the player and their ability to adapt to the change.
Registered User
Son plays CR so they are on the open bases...
My thing is that travel ball cost a few thousand dollars, plus costs of gas and hotel stays, etc...will that really enhance the development of my son's ball playing? He plays the rec, district, and fall ball....and will also go to some winter training this year. Is travel ball really that important at his age --11/12....or should someone wait until 60/90 and then start looking into travel ball as a way to look at player development.
Registered User
My opinion is that it is not that important. My son started after his last year in LL (12) and is one of the top players on his TB team if not the best player (not bragging just making a point). A lot of the kids on his team have been playing TB since they were 8. The only reason we got on a TB team was to prepare for HS. JMHO
Registered User
Another thing to consider is that "open bases" and 54/80 (or eek - less) is a joke. It overvalues unconventional and what will eventually be considered as risky to foolish base running. The base running is completely different at 60/90 against quality pick off moves and catchers with sufficient arm strength to control the running game.
Knowing what I know now, no way I'd have my son play travel baseball that included 54/80 play. We (both my son and I) had serious buyer's remorse last year. About 2/3 of the games were on 54/80. The uniforms were sweet, but the game favored the 4'10" 85# 13 y/o types who were fast and risk takers over studs.
True story...last year my son was standing at the plate with runners on 1st and 3rd in the bottom of the 7th. The previous AB he smacked one off the 325 sign in LC field. The pitch before that he yanked one foul, and it was legit HR distance. The coach called for a double steal with 2 outs. Not on the catcher mind you. The runner at 1B left for second on the throw back from the 1B to the pitcher after a pick-off attempt.
At 5'11" and 190 lbs. that's obviously not my son's game. Speed's great, but it was seriously overvalued. My younger daughter without any exaggeration would have been a better fit on that team and in that league. If they played 54/80 style baseball at the MLB level, Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, and Adrian Gonzales would all be out of jobs. David Ortiz couldn't work in an MLB park unless he worked concessions.
Save your money. A lot of people are under the presumption that this is preparation for the "next level." They are what I like to call - wrong.
Last edited by shake-n-bake; 11-05-2011 at 10:07 AM.
There are two kinds of losers.....Those that don't do what they are told, and those that do only what they are told.
Registered User
Another thought, and not to hijack the subject matter, but in baseball I think "better competition" is far less important for development than say basketball or football.
Take a hundred ground balls a day and a hundred pitches in BP versus shooting endless jump shots and lay ups or versus hours of 7 on 7 type workouts in football. The opposition is not in your face putting their hands on you or their shoulder pads in your rib cage in baseball. There's a saying in football that says "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." Basketball - similar deal. With a defender in your grill everything changes. Baseball, not so much. Development can (and has) been achieved without dropping a few grand on a baseball season where your kid plays against "better competition." A lot of that "better competition" will likely be out of baseball in a few years and working a part time job at Taco Bell during the spring and summer.
Last edited by shake-n-bake; 11-05-2011 at 10:25 AM.
There are two kinds of losers.....Those that don't do what they are told, and those that do only what they are told.
Registered User
It doesn't have to be thousands. I think we paid less than $500 last year for about 30 games, and will pay less than $1000 this year for 50. Teams that travel hotel-necessary distances and play strictly tournament ball (we have ~20 local league games) will pay a lot more.
We've played open bases since 46/60 (10/11u) here, and I agree that at 46/60 and 50/70, it's pretty absurd. At 54/80 this year (13u), speed has already become much less of a factor, and it's much more on the pitchers controlling the running game than anything else. Maybe that's because the track-meet nature of the game the last 3 years has gotten the pitchers/catchers trained to deal with it earlier, I don't know.
I agree that speed is overrated to an extent, especially since the conditions we played under at 10-12u almost required it to be, but the little fast guys aren't going to stay little much longer, and the big guys are going to need to find some speed on the big field or be able to out-hit all the the other big guys who don't. My 5'11" 140 pounder seems to have finally figured out where his feet are, still waiting to see some of the truckload of food he eats translate into muscle rather than bone so the power keeps up, though.
Registered User
54/80 is still a track meet, it heavily favors the runner. All but the slowest of slowest kids would turn walks and singles into doubles. Not until you reach 60/90 does it really work itself out.
Here in So Cal high school baseball starts at 13 to 15 years of age. If he's not playing travel ball at 12 or 13 for baseball or soccer, both of which ask for year round commitments, it's not very likely he's going to be playing high school baseball or soccer UNLESS he goes to a smaller school. One needs to undertand that at the premier big schools well over 100 kids, many of them true athletes, will be trying out for the team.
Registered User
If you're looking at Arsenal don't get sucked into that trap. They sell the results of the 17/18U college prospect showcase team to sucker preteen parents. I know someone whose son did go all the way through the Arsenal program. There were only four players remaining from the 13U A team by 16U. Of course they will sell you the same pitch even if your son is on the B or now they have a C team. The B and C teams are only their to make more money off suckers.
My son grew up on the other side of the river. He's playing college ball now. While he played travel in his preteen years in addition to LL I did not find it necessary. It was just more ball. From 13U on he played only travel in the summer. At 13U the benefit was not playing with rec kids who really stunk. Moving to the 60/90 field is too much of a challenge for many kids. At 14U and 16U at age fifteen I found it good competitive preparation for high school varsity ball. The only time travel really matters and is necessary is when you realize your son is a college prospect. Even then there are only about five or six programs in the Philadelphia area worth playing for. It's a waste unless the program is well connected to college programs.
Add: From 9U to 16U I coached the team along with other former college players. The only costs were related to team equipment and playing tournaments. It was $200 for the Sunday Doubleheader League concurrent with LL. It was $500-600 per season from 13U to 16U. At sixteen college prospect showcase ball gets pricey (about 4K not including my travel costs). There were trips to major tournaments in FL and GA. The summer after senior year my son played Legion ball. It was nice to only pay $200 for the summer. He enjoyed not having such and intense baseball summer for the first time since he was in LL.
Last edited by tg643; 11-05-2011 at 05:11 PM.
Registered User
Speed's great, but it was seriously overvalued
With BBCOR bats speed is making a big comeback in college recruiting. An SEC team I follow had three players hit as many homers in 2010 before BBCOR as the team hit with BBCOR in 2011.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks