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Thread: 2011 Best of Baseball election thread

  1. #26
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    Hmm... well, Smoltz will vie for top spot on my ballot. Hoffman will be listed fairly high, assuming three of the top four newcomers are elected this time around. Robin Ventura is an interesting name that should not be thrown aside... he's on par IMO with the holdovers we have at 3B. Kenny Lofton is someone who I never considered a HOFer, but there he sits at 65.3 WAR so he may garner some votes. Then there's Omar Vizquel, the latest in the line of small-bat, great-glove shortstops (see: Rabbit Maranville, Luis Aparicio, Ozzie Smith). A fairly deep class all things considered.

  2. #27
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    While I don't support Ventura or Luis Gonzalez, they're hardly embarrassing choices. I wouldn't support Vizquel if his career ended now, which is the only way he'd be eligible next election. I'll support Smoltz, and probably Lofton. I'll have to think through Hoffman some more. Linares is an interesting case, but I probably won't have to think about it too much in 2012
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  3. #28
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    Last day for this election.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  4. #29
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    We had 11 player and contributor ballots in our last election before November 2012. We inducted players Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, and Curt Schilling and contributor Pat Gillick. Here are the official results, players first:
    Code:
    Players……………..	votes	pts
    Maddux, Greg	11	132
    Glavine, Tom	11	113
    Schilling, Curt	11	107
    Walker, Larry	11	82
    Bando, Sal	7	45
    Palmiero, R	6	31
    Brown, Kevin	5	30
    Rixey, Eppa	5	29
    Aparicio, Luis	5	28
    McGriff, Fred	3	27
    Beckley , Jake	4	25
    Mullane , Tony	4	20
    Puckett, Kirby	3	20
    Shocker, Urban	4	19
    Berger , Wally	3	14
    Pierce, Billy	5	13
    Duffy , Hugh	2	10
    Saberhagen, B	2	10
    Belle, Albert	1	9
    Munson, Thurman	2	9
    Dandridge, Ray	3	8
    Grimes , B	1	6
    Leach , Tommy	1	6
    Lundy , Dick	1	6
    Nettles, Graig	2	6
    Randolph, W	2	6
    Sutter, Bruce	2	6
    Evans, Darrell	1	5
    Sewell , Joe	1	5
    Bonds, Bobby	1	4
    Fingers, Rollie	1	4
    Gomez, Lefty	1	4
    Quisenberry, D	2	4
    Cone, David	1	3
    Perez, Tony	1	3
    Evers, Johnny	1	2
    Murphy, Dale	1	2
    Newcombe, Don	1	2
    Jones, Charley	1	1
    Rice, Sam	1	1
    Smith, Chino	1	1
    Now the contributors:
    Code:
    Contributors…………	votes	pts
    Gillick, Pat	10	30
    Neft, David	7	28
    Schuerhotlz, J	6	16
    Mizuhara, S	6	14
    Martin, Billy	4	11
    Harvey, Doug	5	9
    Smith, Red	3	9
    Pompez, Alex	3	8
    O'Doul, Lefty	3	7
    Caray, Harry	1	5
    Harris , Bucky	1	5
    Jobe, Frank	1	5
    Pesky, Johnny	1	5
    Harwell, Ernie	1	4
    McCarthy, Tommy	1	4
    Johnson, Davey	1	3
    Uecker, Bob	1	2
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  5. #30
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    Thanks Jim for an entertaining project - and thanks to the voters who helped us through the tough times on the Contributor ballot! I've learned a lot more about the non-players and I'm going to revamp my list when the 2012 BBF HOF ballot starts. Now, I guess this project goes annual too. Much like the BBF HOF is our answer to Cooperstown, this project is our answer to the Hall of Merit.

    Edit - I already revamped my list last year. Duh.
    Last edited by J W; 11-20-2011 at 07:23 PM.

  6. #31
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    I've enjoyed the run. I'm glad you did as well.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  7. #32
    I would also like to chime in about how much I enjoyed these elections. I did a lot of research when I was choosing my players/contributors and learned a lot about people of whom I had not heard of before. Specifically, the Nippon players and contributors. As a newer member to these forums, I appreciate the chance to have my voice heard over the folks who I feel are deserving of a special place in our national past-time's history, whether it be home or abroad.

    Thanks, Jim!

  8. #33
    I'm kind of sad we've reached this point of the project. I've been in it from the start, and may have missed one election along the way. I've learned quite a bit in the process.
    Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
    Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
    Robin JEDI

  9. #34
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    Thanks for the project.

  10. #35
    This was one of the more fun projects I've participated in and I think we collectively put together a great HOF.

  11. #36
    A thanks to jalbright for re-igniting my interest in the Baseball-Fever website for his in-depth analysis of Japanese players, and to the electorate for worthy discussion board chatter. Please add Roger Clemens and George Steinbrenner to members section of the Best of Baseball.

    I would like to ask a favor of the best of baseball voters. I recently joined the contributor ballot rankings and am trying to form a personal hall. Current, it consists of players enshrined from: The Cooperstown Hall of Fame, The Progressive Hall of Fame, the Baseball Fever Hall of Fame, and the Best of Baseball Hall of Fame. Any member who appeared in three or more of the halls or two of the Baseball-Fever halls was enshrined. This left me five slots shy of the total enshrined in the Best of Baseball Hall of Fame for what I considered to be primarily contributor enshrinees.

    I have a subset of fifteen I was hoping everyone could rank in preference order - each of the fifteen has either been elected to two of the halls of fame or I have voted for them in this project:
    Al Barlick
    Buzzie Bavasi
    Jocko Conlan
    Al Munro Elias
    Gus Greenlee
    Vic Harris
    Doug Harvey
    Bill James
    Shigeru Mizuhara
    David Neft
    Alex Pompez
    John Schierholtz
    Ben Shibe
    Alfred Spink
    George Steinbrenner

    I have excluded contributors (John McGraw, George Wright, Al Spalding, etc.) who I deemed worthy of player selection.
    The members of my tentative contributor hall of fame:
    A. J. Reach
    Al Lopez
    Alexander Cartwright
    Ban Johnson
    Bill Klem
    Bill McKechnie
    Bill Veeck
    Billy Evans
    Billy Southworth
    Bob Ferguson
    Bobby Cox
    Branch Rickey
    Buck O’Neil
    C. I. Taylor
    Casey Stengel
    Charles Comiskey
    Charles Conlon
    Connie Mack
    Cum Posey
    Dick Williams
    Doc Adams
    Earl Weaver
    Ed Barrow
    Ed Bolden
    Ford Frick
    Francis Richter
    Frank Chance
    Frank Selee
    George Weiss
    Harry Wright
    Henry Chadwick
    Iso Abe
    J. L. Wilkinson
    J.G. Taylor Spink
    Jack Dunn
    Jacob Ruppert
    Jim Creighton
    Joe McCarthy
    Kazuto Tsuruoaka
    Kenesaw Landis
    Larry MacPhail
    Leo Durocher
    Marvin Miller
    Matsutaro Shoriki
    Mel Allen
    Miller Huggins
    Ned Hanlon
    O. P. Caylor
    Pat Gillick
    Red Barber
    Sol White
    Sparky Anderson
    Tetsuharu Kawakami
    Tom Connolly
    Tommy Lasorda
    Tony LaRussa
    Vin Scully
    Walter Alston
    Walter O'Malley
    Whitey Herzog
    William Hulbert
    Last edited by Jar of Flies; 11-22-2011 at 06:42 PM.

  12. #37
    I don't know if you consider him a player or a contributor, but Dickey Pearce deserves to be somewhere. Out of the contributors you were unsure of, I would group them roughly like this, but don't feel comfortable doing a strict ranking:

    Al Munro Elias
    Bill James
    David Neft
    --------------------
    Buzzie Bavasi
    Gus Greenlee
    Shigeru Mizuhara
    George Steinbrenner
    --------------------
    Al Barlick
    Jocko Conlan
    Doug Harvey
    Alfred Spink
    ----------------------
    Vic Harris
    Alex Pompez
    John Schuerholtz
    Ben Shibe

    I would have to do more research on the bottom four to rank them.
    Last edited by jjpm74; 11-23-2011 at 06:18 AM.

  13. #38
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    I'll start a few posts comparing Cooperstown to the results of this project.

    First, we won't bother with the guys picked by both.

    Next, we'll list the Japanese and Caribbean guys eligible for BOB that aren't for Cooperstown:
    Iso Abe
    Akira Bessho
    Perucho Cepeda
    Isao Harimoto
    Kazuhisa Inao
    Masaichi Kaneda
    Tetsuharu Kawakami
    Masaaki Koyama
    Shigeo Nagashima
    Katsuya Nomura
    Hiromitsu Ochiai
    Sadaharu Oh
    Matsutaro Shoriki
    Victor Starffin
    Kazuto Tsuruoka
    Then we'll list the press/writer types who can be in BOB but not Cooperstown:
    Mel Allen
    Red Barber
    Charles Conlon
    Al Munro Elias
    Francis Richter
    Vin Scully
    Alfred Spink
    J. G. T. Spink
    We'll also note the guys who are ineligible for Cooperstown due to gambling issues:
    Joe Jackson
    Pete Rose
    One last step before we go for a head to head comparison: listing the guys not yet eligible for the other project. Including Joe Torre on behalf of Cooperstown is a case of being nice.
    Cooperstown
    Roberto Alomar

    Best of Baseball
    Craig Biggio
    Barry Bonds
    Bobby Cox
    Tom Glavine
    Randy Johnson
    Tony LaRussa
    Greg Maddux
    Curt Schilling
    Joe Torre
    Last edited by jalbright; 11-27-2011 at 11:54 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  14. #39
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    The head to head comparison of contributors:
    Code:
    Cooperstown		BOB  
    Al Barlick		Doc Adams
    Morgan Bulkeley		Buzzue Bavasi
    Happy Chandler		Ed Bolden
    Nestor Chylak		O. P. Caylor
    Jocko Conlan		Jim Creighton
    Candy Cummings		Jack Dunn
    Warren Giles		Bob Ferguson
    Will Harridge		Gus Greenlee
    Bucky Harris		Vic Harris
    Doug Harvey		Marvin Miller
    Cal Hubbard		Buck O'Neill
    Bowie Kuhn		A. J. Reach
    Lee MacPhail		Jacob Ruppert
    Effa Manley		Ben Shibe
    Bill McGowan		C. I. Taylor
    Alex Pompez		
    Wilbert Robinson		
    Tom Yawkey
    I prefer the BOB list.
    Last edited by jalbright; 11-27-2011 at 11:58 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  15. #40
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    Now for the most critical set of different picks, the players:
    Code:
    Cooperstown		BOB
    Luis Aparicio		Dick Allen
    Dave Bancroft		Ross Barnes
    Jake Beckley		John Beckwith
    Chief Bender		Charlie Bennett
    Jim Bottomley		Ken Boyer
    Orlando Cepeda		Bob Caruthers
    Jack Chesbro		Cupid Childs
    Earle Combs		Will Clark
    Andy Cooper		Bill Dahlen
    Kiki Cuyler		Dwight Evans
    Ray Dandridge		Wes Ferrell
    Leon Day		Bill Freehan
    Hugh Duffy		Jack Glasscock
    Johnny Evers		George Gore
    Rick Ferrell		Bobby Grich
    Rollie Fingers		Heinie Groh
    Lefty Gomez		Stan Hack
    Burleigh Grimes		Keith Hernandez
    Chick Hafey		Paul Hines
    Jesse Haines		Grant "Home Run"Johnson
    Harry Hooper		Charlie Keller
    Waite Hoyt		Barry Larkin
    Catfish Hunter		Sherry Magee
    Travis Jackson		Minnie Minoso
    Judy Johnson		Dobie Moore
    George Kell		Alejandro Oms
    High Pockets Kelly	Dickey Pearce
    Chuck Klein		Tim Raines
    Tony Lazzeri		Rick Reuschel
    Freddie Lindstrom	Ron Santo
    Ernie Lombardi		Jimmy Sheckard
    Heinie Manush		Ted Simmons
    Rabbit Maranville	Reggie Smith
    Rube Marquard		Joe Start
    Bill Mazeroski		Harry Stovey
    Tommy McCarthy		Ezra Sutton
    Herb Pennock		Luis Tiant
    Tony Perez		Alan Trammell
    Kirby Puckett		Quincy Trouppe
    Jim Rice		Lou Whitaker
    Sam Rice		Deacon White
    Eppa Rixey		
    Ray Schalk		
    Red Schoendienst		
    Joe Sewell		
    Bruce Sutter		
    Ben Taylor		
    Joe Tinker		
    Lloyd Waner		
    Mickey Welch		
    Vic Willis		
    Hack Wilson		
    Ross Youngs
    I know I prefer the BOB group, especially supplemented by the Japanese players.
    Last edited by jalbright; 11-27-2011 at 12:02 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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