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Thread: 1923 Polo Grounds 3D

  1. #26
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    Here is an image that might help with the steelwork shape at the back of the upper deck. The image is from 1911, taken as the ballpark was being rebuilt. Buck Herzog is taking BP:



    [Both pics are much larger than they appear]




  2. #27
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    As the focus is on 1923, here are a few pics from that year.


    First, an exterior shot that appears to be from 1923, as the major extension of the grandstand sections is in progress. Note the ticket price signs (S1.10, and two others that might be $2.29 and $1.25) and the booths near the road in the foreground:




    Two more from 1923, showing a bit of the ballpark after the 1923 renovations. We can see that they actually retained the lion motif (of which I will post pics in a bit) on the facing of the 1911-built upper deck:






    Note the Eddie Grant memorial in CF. Grant had played for the Giants from 1913-15. He enlisted in the Army, as was killed in WWI.









    Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 11-16-2011 at 03:42 PM.

  3. #28
    A lot to digest------the upper deck stands are now correct as far as rows and slope. Working on a complete girder assembly---when that's done I'lll rotate it to the LF side and see how it fits. Amazing how on the LF side there were no outer walls.

  4. #29
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    Not sure yet about the outer walls in 1923. Some of the images in my post just above seen to show an outer wall in 1923. Maybe that was more the case for the older sections, though. Will investigate.


    A pic from 1923 as the construction progressed:




    An attempt to make those 1923 ticket prices more legible:




    1923 WS in Polo Grounds:




    1923 WS, deciding game (game 6). Proves the lion motif was still on the facing of the upper deck for some sections.


  5. #30
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    From an image made in 1917, the lion motif on the facing of the upper deck:










    To create the 1923 Polo Grounds, it seems that the only elaborate decorations required would be the lion pattern shown above. The city seal designs at the top of the ballpark seem to have been completely removed by the time of the April 26, 1923 photos. As for the eagle decorations below, I can only confirm their presence on the roof for 1911-1913:



    Note human figures at bottom left for scale of eagles. They (the eagles) seem to have been about 3 1/2 - 4 feet tall from their mount to their wing tips.
    Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 11-16-2011 at 04:29 PM.

  6. #31
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    On the issue of the exterior walls, here are the pics that give guidance on this, in one post. The Polo Grounds exterior walls on either side of home plate for the portion constructed in 1911 seem to have been retained in the 1923 photos.


    Images from 1923. Note the gap in the first photo for the upper wall, and find the same in the other images:








    This older image (probably from 1911-1913) might show the same outer wall we see in 1923. There are louvers in some sections.










  7. #32
    I gotta say, this is fantastic! You do realize you are going to end up digitally recreating all of the 1923 NY metropolitan area by the time this is over?


    Also, it is interesting that the Giants 1923 uniform features their interlocking NY (now the Mets' "NY") on the left breast. The Yankees didn't copy that look until 1936, when they added their NY to the front of their home jerseys. So, the Giants did it first!
    Last edited by Swoboda4; 11-16-2011 at 07:36 PM.

  8. #33
    Gotta tell ya I'm already amazed at the images and detail you're posting. With a better knowledge of the 3D program and the experience of building YS, I truly believe that in a matter of weeks ( excepth the seats) the stadium can be completed. The fact that the ballpark is so symmetrical, for most things I can build one side and mirror it. Also, objects like exit ramps and railings I can import from the YS file. It took me 10 minutes to build the profile for the lower deck stands. The column and girder assembly is well under way and before I put in the rivets, I have a question------are the rivets on both sides of the girders?

  9. #34
    And at some point we can start guessing what color things were!

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoboda4 View Post
    I gotta say, this is fantastic! You do realize you are going to end up digitally recreating all of the 1923 NY metropolitan area by the time this is over?


    Also, it is interesting that the Giants 1923 uniform features their interlocking NY (now the Mets' "NY") on the left breast. The Yankees didn't copy that look until 1936, when they added their NY to the front of their home jerseys. So, the Giants did it first!

    Some of what you wrote is incorrect, and I'll address it because it will prove useful in case human figures are eventually added to the 3D digital models.

    The interlocking NY made its debut in 1908 on the sleeves of the Giants uniforms. The Yankees adopted their own version the following season, also on the sleeve. In 1912, the Yankees first put a large interlocking NY on the chest area of their uniforms, and also debuted pinstripes. The Giants first placed the interlocking NY on their chests in 1916, and then removed it until returning it to the same location in 1923.

    Here are uniform images for the Giants and Yankees from the "Dressed to the Nines" website (research from the National Baseball Hall of Fame).


    Giants uniforms, 1905-1928:






    Yankee uniforms, 1905-1928:






    Examples follow. Giants uniforms in 1911, 1912 and 1923:








    Yankee uniforms 1909, 1912, and 1915:





    Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 11-16-2011 at 10:00 PM.

  11. #36
    Metalwork almost done, except for rivets.
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  12. #37
    What is this structure inside the park?
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  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Lpeters199 View Post
    What is this structure inside the park?
    BK,
    I don't believe that is inside the park. I think it's looking out behind the RF upper deck out the elevated train platform or something in that direction.

    This is my impression of how the left and right field cross-sections of the original 1911 work differed from the home plate area (as noted the new 1923 work would be different in girder arrangements):



    The depth of both sides gets curtailed by the width of the lot, but more severely in left (the new 1923 lower deck in left would be absurdly narrow, like only 10 rows, stopping at the support column in the front). I believe the backmost columns in left must have been brought in a bit to drop straight down from the back of the upper deck roof, and the upper deck appears to have had a uniform number of rows until it approached the curve into center field.

    The right field roof is tricky; there's clearly a point in the corner where the lower deck roof gets narrower, and I think also steeper, since the top and bottom edge remain at the same heights as behind home plate. At some times the end of the 1911 stands in left were covered with an ornamental facade, but in these later photos we can see the early trusses exposed:



  14. #39
    Wow! What started out as a background element for the 1923 Yankee Stadium 3D project certainly has opened up a whole new "field" for you, BK! On a serious note, who built the PG? Those frame sections look verrry Osbornesque.
    Last edited by NYFan1stYankFan2nd; 11-17-2011 at 04:11 AM. Reason: More misspellings than a Perry script...
    RYS to NYS: "Obi-Lonn never told you what happened to your father."

    NYS: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him - in the 1970s!!"

    RYS: "No, I am your father..."

    NYS: "No, it's not true, that's impossible!!!!"

    RYS: "Look beyond my respirator pods and my upper crown; you know it to be true!

  15. #40
    Fair enough! I got my info from Dressed to the Nines as well, but I didn't go back as far. It is interesting to note that the Giants' uniforms/color schemes change A LOT over the years, where the Yankees' have not. The Giants famous black and orange theme that we recognize today didn't settle in until 1947. Even the famous "Dodgers" script didn't appear as we know it today until 1938, 19 years before they left. The Mets' basic uniform is the second longest running style in NY baseball!

    Whoa! Sorry!
    Last edited by Swoboda4; 11-17-2011 at 02:08 PM.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoboda4 View Post
    Fair enough! I got my info from Dressed to the Nines as well, but I didn't go back as far. It is interesting to note that the Giants' uniforms/color schemes change A LOT over the years, where the Yankees' have not. The Giants famous black and orange theme that we recognize today didn't settle in until 1947. Even the famous "Dodgers" script didn't appear as we know it today until 1938, 19 years before they left. The Mets' basic uniform is the second longest running style in NY baseball!
    Swoboda4, would you please edit your post just above to remove the coding for the images? They are visible in my post just above yours, and there's no need to duplicate them. We know to what you are referring in your text response. Re-posting so many images right below the original post just clutters up the thread.

  17. #42
    Okay---issues already------the first image shows the upper deck stands in blue, and the white lines are traced from the image reference---except for cutting rows on the sides, everything is accurate, including the curvature from 3rd to 1st. The second image shows two white lines whichare the exact profiles of the UD and LD stands traced from the blueprints, with both decks in exact position relative to eachother. Green arrow----LD, red arrow---UD. Going on the assumption that the metalwork blueprint I'm following are the assemblies that we find in the curved part of the ballpark, I'm not sure how to jive this with the reference image behind the wireframe. Yikes----HELP!
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  18. #43
    Maybe this better shows how the stands in position don't seem to match the photo reference.
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  19. #44
    BK,
    It looks to me like the problem is that the horshoe part of the upper deck just starts too far back toward Coogan's Bluff, relative to the lower deck. The curvature of the two decks might match if the horshoe of UD was shifted toward the river; the lowest tier of the UD should be directly behind the aisle separating the box seats from the grandstand seats in LD and directly above the two entrance wells.

    I realise that you arrived at that configuration by overlaying the different seating diagrams, and that it does fit the new work in center, but either one or both of those diagrams must be skewed in length somewhat. I'd suggest going off the lot dimensions given in the article as a starting point: the property line was 740' east to west and 519'8" north to south. The center point of the curvature was 471' from the 8th ave property line.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by NYFan1stYankFan2nd View Post
    Wow! What started out as a background element for the 1923 Yankee Stadium 3D project certainly has opened up a whole new "field" for you, BK! On a serious note, who built the PG? Those frame sections look verrry Osbornesque.
    From the Engineering Record article posted above:

    "The engineers for the stadium are the Osborn Engineering Company of Cleveland, Ohio. The entire structural work is being erected from their plans and supervised by them, the general contracters being the Snare and Triest Company of New York City. Mr. Irving L. Daniels, of Cleveland, is the resident engineer. Mr. Henry B.Herts, architect, of New york City, has been retained to develop the architectural features of the stadium. The steelwork is being executed by the American Bridge Company. Hy-Rib and expanded metal are being used throughout for panel work."

  21. #46
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    I will post some images that might help later today. But I just wanted to post this amazing pic that just came to light. I assumed that someone had to have taken a photo of the Polo Grounds right after the fire in 1911, and here is such an image:

    [image size 1915 X 781]




    So now at least we can see what was left before the 1911 re-build started.

  22. #47
    Sultan------Now that there's reference, maybe I should build the 1911 post-fire version! Great shot! Girder assembly done except for rivets----waiting to know if rivets would appear on both side!
    JE-----so I should use the lower deck image as the guide and fit the upper deck according to the giders?
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  23. #48
    Additionally, I think the photo that is labeled "upper stand" is actually the first deck.

    EDIT: I just saw your render of the girders. Good job! I think the long girder/column is encased in concrete inside the concourse. Reference:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by JOVE23; 11-17-2011 at 12:13 PM.

  24. #49
    Thought I posted this a while ago, but post not showing up---started the monument.
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  25. #50
    JOVE23---didn't notice image said upper stand---assumed it was the lower deck!

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