Off the top of my head...
Pendleton over Bonds
I-Rod over Pedro
Dawson over Clark
What are your thoughts and reasons behind your answers.
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Off the top of my head...
Pendleton over Bonds
I-Rod over Pedro
Dawson over Clark
What are your thoughts and reasons behind your answers.
"I won't be happy until we have every boy in America between the ages of six and sixteen wearing a glove and swinging a bat." Babe Ruth
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1995 AL Nice guy Mo Vaughn over Not as nice Albert Belle.
ding ding ding just seeing that in print p.o.'s me even after over a decade and a half .Originally Posted by EdTarbusz
I'll add Kirk Gibson over Strawberry or McReynolds.
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Edgar Martinez may have been even more deserving than Belle. But Vaughn was definitely not the right choice.
Some other recent ones that come to mind are
Juan Gonzalez in '96 and '98
Pudge Rodriguez in '99 (probably about 6 or 7 more deserving players)
Justin Morneau in '06 (Mauer or Jeter)
Ichiro in '01 (116 win season and the novelty of a Japanese position player, but Giambi should have been the unanimous winner)
Pedroia in '08 (Mauer was much better, but somehow Morneau came in 2nd place and got 7 first place votes.)
It still boggles my mind that Justin Morneau finished in the top 2 in back-to-back seasons. He probably wasn't a top 15 position player in the AL in either season.
Last edited by GiambiJuice; 11-23-2011 at 09:13 AM.
Keep Spraying Maine
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Gonzalez in '96 really stands out. Of the 21 players who received points in the AL MVP voting that season, Juan Gonzalez was #21 in WAR, according to BB-Ref. He was 6.9 WAR below Ken Griffey Jr. Gonzalez's stats for that season don't look that bad, but it's important to put it in context. His 47 home runs were just 5th best in the league, and he played a very hitter friendly park.
xFIP?! I laugh at you!
Andrew Dawson in 1987 really stands out.
Don Mattingly over George Brett and Rickey Henderson in 1985.
Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis
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Circle of Bosses
Verlander 2011
Pedroia 2008
Morneau 2006
Pudge 1999
Ichiro 2001
Tejada 2002
a lot of dumb picks there
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There have been some real clunkers, but Willie Stargell co-winning in 1979 has to be high on the list. For you WAR worshippers, Stargell had a WAR of 2.3 in 1979. Winfield had a terrific season , finished at 8.4. Schmidt was at 7.4 and Hernandez, the co-winner, was at 7.2. I didn't check it out but I doubt seriously that Stargell was in the top 25 in the NL in 1979. He won because
The Pirates won the pennant.
He was a "beloved" elder on a team with a catchy theme- "We are family".
He DID hit some big home runs in September and generally played well down the stretch.
He probably got a few sympathy "makeup" votes from 1971 and 1973, when he had 2 really outstanding seasons but didn't win the MVP.
Parker was far and away the best player on the Pirates in 79, though many players (Stargell included) contributed.
Tigers '35, '45, '68, '84
George Bell in '87 over Alan Trammell and Wade Boggs. Boggs had the highest WAR in the league and finished twelfth in the voting. Trammell was second in WAR, played a good shortstop vs. Bell's bumbling leftfield, led the Tigers to the division championship over Bell and the Blue Jays, but wasn't "an RBI man".
Jeff Burroughs, with his 3.6 WAR, in '74 over the 22 players who got votes and had a better WAR than him. The first three were pitchers (Perry, Jenkins and Tiant). If that bugs you, Reggie Jackson and Bobby Grich would have been good choices.
A gametime decision
Especially if you define the MVP as most valuable to his team's success. As the cliche goes, they could have finished last without him.
"My truck done shocked the fire out of me, and my arm don't hurt no more." - Roy Oswalt, channeling Dizzy Dean
'87 makes you realize it was all about the RBI and each of them led the league with over 130 which was a number not often reached. Also at that time the 47 HR each hit was the highest in several years even if it was topped by McGwire's 49. Trammell definitely got a raw deal that year.
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Hank Sauer - 1952 Cubs 77-77 - lead league in HR & RBI, but not an MVP season, Roberts, Musial, J Robinson (to name a few) would have been much better
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Anytime a reliever has won.
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One of the worst was 1934 when Mickey Cochrane got the MVP with a .320 BA,2 homers,and 76 RBI.Lou Gehrig finished 5th despite the fact that he won the Major League Triple Crown with a .363 BA,49 homers,and 165 RBI.Gehrig also led in SA with.706,led in total bases(409),and only struck out 31 times!Even Lou`s teammate,Lefty Gomez got more votes.(A-PITCHER-NICKNAMED-GOOFY-GOT-MORE-VOTES)!!!!
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The Yankees finished in 2nd place, so I can sort of understand Gehrig getting snubbed, but the real mystery is how Cochrane beat out his own teammates, Gehringer and Greenberg.
Gehringer - .356/.450/.517 11 HR, 127 RBI, 50 doubles, 134 runs (led league), 214 hits (led league), 9.5 WAR
Greenberg - .339/.404/.600, 26 HR, 139 RBI, 63 doubles (led league), 118 runs, 201 hits, 6.7 WAR
The only explanation is that Cochrane got extra credit for being a player/manager.
Keep Spraying Maine
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I don't agree with both MVPs this year but they are nowhere near the worst.
They are very close to the top in WAR and OPS+ (in brauns case). so they are defintely deserving MVP candidates although there might have been someone a little more valuable.
there have been a lot of terrible selections. eckersley for example. Eck hat 3.0 WAR in that season.
I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and can’t run, most of the time he’s clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. – Dusty Baker.
Lummox in LF
Dawson really rankled me at the time.
That was a big hitting year and so many guys had great seasons...Eric Davis was my favorite at the time, but so many guys had better years than Dawson. And the Cubs finished last!!! You couldn't even pull out the "his team made the playoffs" argument!!!
"I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial
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Maury Wills in 1962. Willie Mays should have won easily.
Up, Up and a Hey!
Never heard of him.
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"If we have to rely on me to hit a home run to win a game, we’re in bad shape." - Rick Camp July 4, 1985
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Pedroia in '08 - single worst. He must've had pictures of someone.
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Mauer's offensive WAR in 2008 seems pretty high for a guy with a 133 ops+. I know he is a catcher, but I still don't see it. I probably would have voted for him, but it seems a bit fishy, kind of like when a leftfielder leads the league in defensive WAR.
Mourneau probably cost Mauer the award in 2008.
Joe D in 1947 was an absolute travesty. He did not deserve the award in 1941 either, but 1947 was beyond absurd.
Ichiro in 2001 is one of the really ridiculous ones. Giambi was miles better.
Like others have said, Vaughn in 95 was a joke. Edgar or Belle should have one. The fact that sportswriters snubbed Belle that way, the guy who should have won by conventional measures, leads me to think that certain MVP voters need to lose their votes. If you don't vote for someone because you don't like him, you should lose your vote.
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He should not have won, but that was far from the worst selection. It does not merit mention in this thread. It is not on the order of Ichiro, Dawson, 1947, or numerous other atrocities.
A second baseman who played great defense and had an OPS+ of 122 had a damn good season. Better than Mauer? No. But no one else was head and shoulders above him.
The real travesty of that vote, was Mourneau coming in second.
2005 World Series Champs
Roger Peckinaugh in 1925 I think it was the year probably was a bad pick.
"(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack
"I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)
1934 was definitely the worst I can think of, not counting a few seasons where Ted Williams should have won it. Joe Gordon winning it over Ted in 1942 was pretty bad. I don't think Pedroia was a bad choice in 2008..nobody really stood out that season in the AL. Mauer had a great WAR, but I don't see how his year was nearly as good as WAR would suggest. We have to be very careful if going only by WAR, because it gives some wacky results. Mauer in 2008 , for instance, had more WAR than he had in his amazing 2009 season. Ridiculous. I always thought Carlos Delgado deserved the MVP in 2000, but looking at WAR, he was far behind Giambi, despite having an equally as good season, and had barely half of the WAR that A-rod had. Positional adjustments shouldn't make THAT much of a difference. Giambi, A-rod, Thomas, Manny, Pedro, Delgado, and even Nomar would have all been fine choices that year. I've also always felt that Mike Piazza was robbed a few times, most notably 1995 and 1997. Mcgwire was robbed in 1998. I think that Adrian Beltre deserved it in 2004..maybe the finest season ever for a third baseman, when both offense and defense are considered. At that point, Bonds was useless in the field and on the bases, and the majority of his value was in his walks.
2005 World Series Champs
Roger Peckinpaugh over Al Simmons or Harry Heilmann in 1925 has gotta be in the top 5. Joe Gordan least had a decent season war the year he won it compared to Peckinpaugh's 2.6 war.
"(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack
"I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)
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