Toe Touch and Heel Plant

[bbrages]

If a kid walked in with Babe Ruth's swing off the street I find it hard to believe you would consider it a perfect swing and not suggest any adjustments to "improve it."

Or, the flip side: If the Babe Ruth swing is good (very narrow stance plus huge stride) why would you not teach it to a typical 10 year old? Or would you?

[Tewks]

Tewks, in looking at Pujol's swing above, if not rotation then what?

Rotation doesn't explain why..

1. the hands work up and
2. the barrel turns back

when

a. the knee goes down and
b. the pelvis turns forward

all happening prior to weight shift and swing commitment.

[Tewks]

Or, the flip side: If the Babe Ruth swing is good (very narrow stance plus huge stride) why would you not teach it to a typical 10 year old? Or would you?

Length of stride isn't mechanics, it is style. I don't teach style. The feel of what they are doing, the feel from the mechanics... it allows you to do whatever you want with style.

[real green]

Tewks you have forgotten more than I have ever known and this is what I find so tough about coaching.

Who said moving the head is bad?

I would answer this yes. I have been coached, watched other coaches, and coached that you should limit head movement as much as possible. In your research you don't think it should be a goal of a hitter to limit the amount of head movement?

[Tewks]

Tewks you have forgotten more than I have ever known and this is what I find so tough about coaching.

Who said moving the head is bad?

I would answer this yes. I have been coached, watched other coaches, and coached that you should limit head movement as much as possible. In your research you don't think it should be a goal of a hitter to limit the amount of head movement?

It isn't a concern of mine. With what I teach, it doesn't come up as an issue. I do not promote head movement. I think seeing the ball is incredibly important (and not stressed enough). If you do other things right, there is no reason for it to be an issue.

[LClifton]

Is rotation more of a result?

Result of what? If I said rotation is leveraged, would that make sense?

Result of UP-stream movement that creates the environment where the hitter has little choice to “show / become” rotated. Which addresses only the "when" element.

How is where students need an assist......
Specifically, when a hitter coils, they will (almost naturally) uncoil.
As they are learning the subtle nature of coiling it will be forced / ugly / out of sequence, initially. I'm going to use an analogy that works for my simple mind and the kids I train.
I have ahold of the edge of a door. There is a bad guy approaching my house. My goal is to slam that door in his face as soon as he reaches the threshold. I do not want to “cheat” the door forward. With me? The bad guy approaches, I'm prepared. Just before he reaches the threshold I move the door back (open) a bit---- then slam it.
Did I rotate or become rotated? We can discuss foot plant / heel plant / when, where, how, why or why not....OR we can give a task and work with a kid, and at times,,, stay out of the way, til it's achieved.

So let's add one little element to the door slam analogy. What if during the last little bit of opening--- before slamming the door,,,there were a resistance placed on the door preventing it from swinging totally free on the hinges? Say the door had a little “snag” in it,,,my body would have to react a little differently to “un-snag” it. To keep it simple, “I'd have to put my “hind-quarters” into it. To use your words below, I'd have to clear, to accomplish the task, By doing this have I created some leverage..

Let's do it this way, My goal is to slam the door but in order to do that I have to trip a release first. This release is locate near my right knee (visualize a right handed door slammer ).......
Leverage works for me

With month end where I work today....I will respond to the other things...later.

[LClifton]

LC, I have been trying to describe the directional component to the swing. Been doing a lot of writing, sharing, explaining. Again, I am not saying the body doesn't turn, but a rotation-based swing IMO is not high level. I don't think a linear push being transferred into rotational power is a good model at all.

Length of stride isn't mechanics, it is style. I don't teach style. The feel of what they are doing, the feel from the mechanics... it allows you to do whatever you want with style.

Do you ever help them find it? Maybe you grasp by what they're doing, that a certain style may get them to function more properly? Then they can evolve from there.

[Cannonball]

Tewks, I am one of those that says you can't coach "feel." No two people can "feel" the same. I understand what you are saying. I understand that some of this is "under the hood" stuff and that you might be able to describe that to another. However, I believe no two people will be able to feel the same since none of us have the same genetic make up, muscle structure, bone desnsity/structure, ...

I am quite certain that you can ask someone if they "feel" what you feel and they will say yes. However, as a consistent and verifiable teaching method, I just can't buy it.

Tweks, from a "feel approach" you could tell someone, "now you feel what Bonds feels." Sounds great but not very truthful.

[Tewks]

Do you ever help them find it? Maybe you grasp by what they're doing, that a certain style may get them to function more properly? Then they can evolve from there.

Yes, I make style recommendations all the time. It is mostly to disrupt timing. A local D2 coach who I know well recently accused me of teaching a high leg kick. A player who comes to AB tried it, found it to be a rhythm and feel he liked and it was something he stuck with. I don't consider that to be part of the mechanics I teach at all though.

[Tewks]

Tewks, I am one of those that says you can't coach "feel." No two people can "feel" the same. I understand what you are saying. I understand that some of this is "under the hood" stuff and that you might be able to describe that to another. However, I believe no two people will be able to feel the same since none of us have the same genetic make up, muscle structure, bone desnsity/structure, ...

I am quite certain that you can ask someone if they "feel" what you feel and they will say yes. However, as a consistent and verifiable teaching method, I just can't buy it.

Tweks, from a "feel approach" you could tell someone, "now you feel what Bonds feels." Sounds great but not very truthful.

Tewks or Tweks?


One of my softball players said to me yesterday that describing feel is like trying to explain what a color looks like. I think over time, language starts to match better and better.... but video should always be used to confirm the movements.

[Cannonball]

Tewks, I apologize. Tewks!!!!

[Tewks]

Tewks, I apologize. Tewks!!!!

Real big smile.

Just messin' around.

[jbooth]

Isn't the bleed or non-bleed argument a matter of power source? The heel plant argument is a due to ground reaction force, correct? So Barry and Ted are bleeding power here?






The root of my contention here... is what if rotation isn't the true power source of the high level swing? Not saying a turning/rotation component doesn't exist, but as a power source there is something else there.

Their hips are just beginning to open at heel plant. There is no bleed.

Come on Bob, without rotation there IS no power. If you don't comprehend that, you need to quit coaching.

[jbooth]

I love this clip of Babe Ruth... and ignoring the fact that he goes onto his heel (just in case anybody is still teaching bug squishing)... is Ruth bleeding his power?

No. His hips are rotating into heel plant.

[Swing Coach]

Rotation and Power

After a six year study of the MLB swing (and talking to several MLB players) I have decided to leave out the concious effort of "rotation" and "hip turn" out of my new MLB hitting guide I have written. One MLB player told me specifically to be careful teaching "hips" and "rotation" because he said he emphasized it one spring training and it really messed him up. The hands and bat were left behind, he said. Don Slaught (RVP sofware) backed this up when I asked him about it. He said through all of his biomechanic and pressure point research it has been determined that the hips go first, but they go naturally in high level, athletic hitters (not talking 9 year-olds here).
He aske me to tell someone athletic to throw a punch or skip a rock or take an axe to a tree and that I would see they all have good hip/rotation....even though you never mention hips or rotation to them. I tried his example and he was right.

I have seen some really lousy (fooled, front foot) MLB swings where the ball still goes over the wall because the hitter kept his rear elbow connected (in close and bent), and he didn't extend his hands toward the ball, which decellerates the bat head. Instead, he accelerated the barrel around the hand hinge hinge in an arc and hit the ball below center with backspin. This move creates a powerful rotation of the bat head. This is what I see Ruth doing in the video above...almost a flip with his wrists accelerating the barrel around the hinge through contact.Look how he doesn't "extend through" the ball. Keep in mind, I am not saying tha rotation does not play a very important role. I am just debating how conscious of a teach it is. I do know that the arms and hands are the closest thing to the bat head, so unlike many people here, I do not discount their role.

SC