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Thread: Ryan Braun busted for PED use; faces 50 day ban

  1. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    So now we're equating pain killers and anti-inflammatories with steroids? Where does it stop? What about caffiene? Obviously a PED, right?
    No I am not equating steroids with painkillers. Painkillers are worse because a lot of the time players wouldn't be playing at all. Furthermore, playing with painkillers can cause irreversible damage. Norcaine injected into Curt Schilling enabled his Game 6 ALCS win against the Yankees but he was never the same. The NBA saga of Bill Walton and the NFL career of Mike Webster show that painkillers are far more dangerous than so-called PEDs.

    On the pop culture front the deaths of Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson surely show the deadly consequences of prescribed medications.

    Caffeine harms performance. The use of the term "PED" is advertising so people who have spent their entire adult lives watching ESPN think that there is a magic bullet for fitness. Once again I have used DecaDrol that I obtained legally. Once again steroids are used to get high as the sensation is pleasant.

    I trust that you are aware of the enormous amount of Oxycontin and Vicodin used nowadays.

    Please do not make an assumption that I equate painkillers with steroids. Painkillers are worse morally and in causing death.
    Last edited by Steven Gallanter; 03-02-2012 at 03:02 PM.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Gallanter View Post
    No I am not equating steroids with painkillers. Painkillers are worse because a lot of the time players wouldn't be playing at all. Furthermore, playing with painkillers can cause irreversible damage. Norcaine injected into curt Schilling enabled his Game 6 ALCS win against the Yankees but he was never the same. The NBA saga of Bill Walton and the NFL career of Mike Webster show that painkillers are far more dangerous than so-called PEDs.

    On the pop culture front the deaths of Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson surely show the deadly consequences of prescribed medications.
    Caffeine harms performance. The use of the term "PED" is advertising so people who have spent their entire adult lives watching ESPN think that there is a magic bullet for fitness. Once again I have used DecaDrol that I obtained legally. Once again steroids are used to get high as the sensation is pleasant.

    I trust that you are aware of the enormous amount of Oxycontin and Vicodin used nowadays.

    Please do not make an assumption that I equate painkillers with steroids. Painkillers are worse morally and in causing death.
    Not a good comparison Steve, two stars who were taking probably more drugs than we could imagine, prescribed or not to an athlete fighting through an injury. From what we learned about Elvis and Michael if even half true, drugs were over done with them.

  3. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Gallanter View Post
    Caffeine harms performance.
    Does this include just plain coffee?
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Gallanter View Post
    No I am not equating steroids with painkillers. Painkillers are worse because a lot of the time players wouldn't be playing at all. Furthermore, playing with painkillers can cause irreversible damage. Norcaine injected into curt Schilling enabled his Game 6 ALCS win against the Yankees but he was never the same. The NBA saga of Bill Walton and the NFL career of Mike Webster show that painkillers are far more dangerous than so-called PEDs.

    On the pop culture front the deaths of Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson surely show the deadly consequences of prescribed medications.

    Caffeine harms performance. The use of the term "PED" is advertising so people who have spent their entire adult lives watching ESPN think that there is a magic bullet for fitness. Once again I have used DecaDrol that I obtained legally. Once again steroids are used to get high as the sensation is pleasant.

    I trust that you are aware of the enormous amount of Oxycontin and Vicodin used nowadays.

    Please do not make an assumption that I equate painkillers with steroids. Painkillers are worse morally and in causing death.
    Any source for that Steve. I just visited 6 sites and they all said Caffeine can give a boost to performance, including some lab test on endurance testing.
    Minimal at best but none of them gave any real bad side effects on performance.
    I am sure if I search more I will find some with a different take on caffeine and performance.

    I doubt a cup of coffee or a Coke is going to matter much either way, your reaching. Ped's is a whole different subject.

  5. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Any source for that Steve. I just visited 6 sites and they all said Caffeine can give a boost to performance, including some lab test on endurance testing.
    Minimal at best but none of them gave any real bad side effects on performance.
    I am sure if I search more I will find some with a different take on caffeine and performance.

    I doubt a cup of coffee or a Coke is going to matter much either way, your reaching. Ped's is a whole different subject.
    My personal experience with caffeine is with weightlifting, basketball, volleyball and table tennis. Too much jittery energy and less upper body strength. I think that caffeine might help sprints a tad but I don't sprint.

    Caffeine hurts performance as a bartender and waiter. Painkillers are catastrophic as I have seen literally 100's of injuries of hospitality workers and managers who disregard the pain that is blocked by ibuprofen/Advil and acetaminophen/Tylenol. These OTC drugs are very dangerous. The OTC status of these drugs have created an assumption of harmlessness that is at odds with my experience.

    To repeat myself regarding on DecaDrol; sex, appearance and intoxication are among the uses of DecaDrol. I have never used DecaDrol and alcohol together but it was a very popular combination during the rave/techno music era at the tail end of the 90's. Today's MLB players are definitely of the generation that would have experience with Decadrol as a party drug. Indeed, even knowing of the party potential of DecaDrol would convey social status in certain circles.

    I find it odd that no BBF poster seems to acknowledge that drugs...get you high!

    People like to believe that they could have been athletes and if they took "PEDs" they could have. I am sympathetic to the desire of most men, and quite a few women, that they be more physically gifted than they are. However, the great majority of folks are...the great majority of folks and as such will be close to the norm.

  6. #626
    Caffeine is performance enhancing for cycling.

    It is also performance enhancing for finance and law. So is adderal.

    Physically steroids could help but agree with Steve on painkillers. Plus players can have surgeries that allow them to player longer and better than before. Legal drugs and supplements can have similar effects to the ones that are banned.

    I used to lift and Argenine and creatine were big boosts. Nothing illegal but a definite aid. A PED.

  7. #627
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    What about glasses, contacts, or lasik?

  8. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltin' Joe View Post
    What about glasses, contacts, or lasik?
    I seem to recall that Barry Bonds and Harold Baines had lasik surgery. I have not researched this. If any BBF poster has good information regarding this I would be interested.

    It IS complicated.

  9. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Caffeine is performance enhancing for cycling.

    It is also performance enhancing for finance and law. So is adderal.

    Physically steroids could help but agree with Steve on painkillers. Plus players can have surgeries that allow them to player longer and better than before. Legal drugs and supplements can have similar effects to the ones that are banned.

    I used to lift and Argenine and creatine were big boosts. Nothing illegal but a definite aid. A PED.
    Caffeine improved my cycling speed but sapped my endurance with calf cramps. My use of it was coincidental.

  10. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Gallanter View Post
    Caffeine improved my cycling speed but sapped my endurance with calf cramps. My use of it was coincidental.
    Caffeine is a stimulant and that's why it can get you in trouble with regards to drug testing. But it also dehydrates you...
    Mike Hopper
    Former Gateway Grizzlies Intern

  11. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Gallanter View Post
    I seem to recall that Barry Bonds and Harold Baines had lasik surgery. I have not researched this. If any BBF poster has good information regarding this I would be interested.

    It IS complicated.
    I'm not sure if lasik can improve to 20/10. But I know it can be improved to better than the average vision of 20/20. Supposedly Tiger Woods was improved to 20/15 from a around 20/2000. If vision could be improved to 20/10, that is a huge advantage in baseball. I'm sure that was one of the factors that made Ted Williams and Babe Ruth what they were.

  12. #632
    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Caffeine is performance enhancing for cycling.

    It is also performance enhancing for finance and law. So is adderal.

    Physically steroids could help but agree with Steve on painkillers. Plus players can have surgeries that allow them to player longer and better than before. Legal drugs and supplements can have similar effects to the ones that are banned.

    I used to lift and Argenine and creatine were big boosts. Nothing illegal but a definite aid. A PED.
    Even if true, not banned.I see nothing wrong with such if it is available to all and unlike PED's not banned.

  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by Joltin' Joe View Post
    What about glasses, contacts, or lasik?
    What is the question Joe, are you asking if they aid much or are you asking if they are acceptable.

  14. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    What is the question Joe, are you asking if they aid much or are you asking if they are acceptable.
    Half being a wise guy, but in a insignificant way, a little serious. If Ted Williams or Babe Ruth had average eyesight (20/20), they would not have been as great. Clearly (no pun intended), their phenomenal vision was part of their skills. I understand lasik is perfectly legal, but isn't it just as performance enhancing (and perhaps more) as some substances that are banned?

  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by Joltin' Joe View Post
    Half being a wise guy, but in a insignificant way, a little serious. If Ted Williams or Babe Ruth had average eyesight (20/20), they would not have been as great. Clearly (no pun intended), their phenomenal vision was part of their skills. I understand lasik is perfectly legal, but isn't it just as performance enhancing (and perhaps more) as some substances that are banned?
    It may be but again, I wouldn't have a problem with any player using any procedure that any other player could experience.
    In other word, player A uses PEDs and player B does not like that, feel it gives the other player an advantage, but he plays by the rules, can't do the same without feeling guilt or getting caught.
    Not the same with anything not banned, available to all with no penalty, not a problem.

  16. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    It may be but again, I wouldn't have a problem with any player using any procedure that any other player could experience.
    In other word, player A uses PEDs and player B does not like that, feel it gives the other player an advantage, but he plays by the rules, can't do the same without feeling guilt or getting caught.
    Not the same with anything not banned, available to all with no penalty, not a problem.
    I agree with you there. Lasik is not only not banned, it is perfectly legal. The fact that it may be even more benefitial than PED is a whole different argument.

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Gallanter View Post
    I seem to recall that Barry Bonds and Harold Baines had lasik surgery. I have not researched this. If any BBF poster has good information regarding this I would be interested.

    It IS complicated.
    Boggs had lasix for the sole purpose of improving his then 20/20 vision. It is 100% performance enhancing.

  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    It may be but again, I wouldn't have a problem with any player using any procedure that any other player could experience.
    In other word, player A uses PEDs and player B does not like that, feel it gives the other player an advantage, but he plays by the rules, can't do the same without feeling guilt or getting caught.
    Not the same with anything not banned, available to all with no penalty, not a problem.
    So if a player knows an umpire called a strike a ball should he call himself out and sit down?

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Gallanter View Post
    Caffeine improved my cycling speed but sapped my endurance with calf cramps. My use of it was coincidental.
    What bulldog said, you did not hydrate enough.

    I did a ride with a guy a couple of years ago who was done by mile 55 of a 65 mile ride. Nothing competitive. Gave him some Accel gel. Basically carb with some Argenine. Got to the finish strong.

  20. #640
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Even if true, not banned.I see nothing wrong with such if it is available to all and unlike PED's not banned.
    So your criteria on what is good and bad is arbitrary?

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