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Thread: Ryan Braun busted for PED use; faces 50 day ban

  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Don't understand this reply. You spoke about an ump calling a pitch a ball and the batter knowing it was a strike should
    sit down and call himself out, your post #638. Thats what you said, my reply............can we get serious.
    Now you say golfers are supposed to do that
    I don''t get your reply at all.
    Simple golfers are required to call a foul on themselves. Why shouldn't baseball players turn around and say to the ump. "No that was strike three" and walk to the dugout. Why not? If it was really a strike, taking that walk is not fair.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    If MLB allows anything for treating an injury then it can't be banned, your saying it's legal.
    Your stretching this one out.................there is no problem with using any substance that is not banned, where are we going with this one.It's simple to understand.
    So again the only problem is some arbitrary decision that says they can use A but not B??

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    OK, thanks OAP. That thought went through my mind but was not sure, never played golf, so I thought I would make sure, what the poster meant, I think you confirmed my thought.

    To tell you the truth and I'm sure the poster will read this, it was a silly reply. Beating around the bush about steroid use and other prodedures that are not illegal and any player can use those procedures, no fear of penalty.

    I say to the poster, for that matter why don't see players doing that now, without "Super eye sight"...............ump calls a runner safe on a tag play......the player says, nope he got me. I'm out.....sillier and sillier. Hence my words, can we get serious.
    No it was not a "silly reply". Your position is the "silly" one. That is what I was trying to point out. Thinking players are not taking every advantage they can to win and excel is silly.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    No it was not a "silly reply". Your position is the "silly" one. That is what I was trying to point out. Thinking players are not taking every advantage they can to win and excel is silly.
    I'm trying to be polite with the word silly, it's beyond that.

    Why don't players do that now on players being tagged out....tell the ump he was wrong, I'm was out and walk to the bench. Tell the ump you were wrong, I didn't check the swing with two strikes, you missed the call, I'm out. Even if this foolishness was true, players could not over rule the ump.........

    Are you getting the point of this nonsense
    You can have the last word on players being honest, not much more I can say.

  5. #665
    No you are being rude and condescending when it is your position that is "silly".

    But your next point is correct. Why don't they do that? If they were out, they should go sit down. IF they were playing strictly by the rules on some honor code.

    This is baseball not golf.

    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    I'm trying to be polite with the word silly, it's beyond that.

    Why don't players do that now on players being tagged out....tell the ump he was wrong, I'm was out and walk to the bench. Tell the ump you were wrong, I didn't check the swing with two strikes, you missed the call, I'm out. Even if this foolishness was true, players could not over rule the ump.........

    Are you getting the point of this nonsense
    You can have the last word on players being honest, not much more I can say.

  6. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Ooh. So it is arbitrary. Ok.
    Absolutely, completely 100% arbitrary and up to MLB and it's rules makers to decide what is allowed in the drug use arena. eye surgery, and changes to players bodies. 100% up to them, and it always will be.


    Arbitrary baby!!! Much like balls and strikes. Outfield fence depth, etc. You ever watch a game? I'm assuming yes, yet you choose to make silly points about certain PED use being banned by MLB (coincidentally many of them are also illegal to handle, sell, and consume in the USA) being ARBITRARY... in the sport with the MOST Arbitrary rules of all the major sports?


    Seems like you are being quite conditional with what you object to, and how.
    Last edited by StanTheMan; 03-04-2012 at 04:26 PM.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  7. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Simple golfers are required to call a foul on themselves. Why shouldn't baseball players turn around and say to the ump. "No that was strike three" and walk to the dugout. Why not? If it was really a strike, taking that walk is not fair.
    Again, astonishly shortsided and a poor attempt at diminishing the quality of the alternate opinion.

    Are you SURE you want to suggest that every batter who would do this, would NEVER BE WRONG? Would always have a better view than the home plate umpire, who is DIRECTLY behind the plate? Has a view of the lateral movement of the ball far superior to that of the batter?

    Awaiting your reply... because if a SINGLE batter ever made an error, calling himself out on strike three on a close pitch, only to see on replay he was wrong, then the ONLY solution is to revert to the umpires decisions ruling absolutely once again... and you'll have to come up with a new way to try to simultaneously suggest players are trying really really super hard.
    Last edited by StanTheMan; 03-04-2012 at 04:28 PM.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  8. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Again, astonishly shortsided and a poor attempt at diminishing the quality of the alternate opinion.

    Are you SURE you want to suggest that every batter who would do this, would NEVER BE WRONG? Would always have a better view than the home plate umpire, who is DIRECTLY behind the plate? Has a view of the lateral movement of the ball far superior to that of the batter?

    Awaiting your reply... because if a SINGLE batter ever made an error, calling himself out on strike three on a close pitch, only to see on replay he was wrong, then the ONLY solution is to revert to the umpires decisions ruling absolutely once again... and you'll have to come up with a new way to try to simultaneously suggest players are trying really really super hard.
    In a way one could say that Braun called himself out by flunking a urine test. It's very unlikely that there was any tampering with the specimen.

    Different from golf, but baseball and the players' union seem to have some agreement about PEDs. My guess is that Braun's case would have been handled differently were he black or Hispanic, and not a favorite of Selig.

  9. #669
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    Race and favoriticism has zero to do with anything imo.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Absolutely, completely 100% arbitrary and up to MLB and it's rules makers to decide what is allowed in the drug use arena. eye surgery, and changes to players bodies. 100% up to them, and it always will be.


    Arbitrary baby!!! Much like balls and strikes. Outfield fence depth, etc. You ever watch a game? I'm assuming yes, yet you choose to make silly points about certain PED use being banned by MLB (coincidentally many of them are also illegal to handle, sell, and consume in the USA) being ARBITRARY... in the sport with the MOST Arbitrary rules of all the major sports?


    Seems like you are being quite conditional with what you object to, and how.

    No. But you can't have it both ways. Why do you object to PED use? Is it because it is unfair? Or because it gives an advantage players in the past did not have??

    Why???

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Again, astonishly shortsided and a poor attempt at diminishing the quality of the alternate opinion.

    Are you SURE you want to suggest that every batter who would do this, would NEVER BE WRONG? Would always have a better view than the home plate umpire, who is DIRECTLY behind the plate? Has a view of the lateral movement of the ball far superior to that of the batter?

    Awaiting your reply... because if a SINGLE batter ever made an error, calling himself out on strike three on a close pitch, only to see on replay he was wrong, then the ONLY solution is to revert to the umpires decisions ruling absolutely once again... and you'll have to come up with a new way to try to simultaneously suggest players are trying really really super hard.
    No. The batter will not always be correct. Neither will the golfer. But if he knows he did something wrong, shouldn't he play by the rules and go sit down. Rather than faking his way on base.

    Why is it ok to do that? Why is it ok to steal a sign? Baseball is not an honor sport. So don't claim that is why one objects to PED's.

  12. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    No. But you can't have it both ways. Why do you object to PED use? Is it because it is unfair? Or because it gives an advantage players in the past did not have??

    Why???



    MLB does not allow them. In many instances (depending on thensubstance) laws in this country do not allow them either. It seems to me those taking the position that the law is wrong and the rules of MLB are wrong should be the ones being asked to explain their position, not me.

    Ball in your court then.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  13. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    No. The batter will not always be correct. Neither will the golfer. But if he knows he did something wrong, shouldn't he play by the rules and go sit down. Rather than faking his way on base.

    Why is it ok to do that? Why is it ok to steal a sign? Baseball is not an honor sport. So don't claim that is why one objects to PED's.
    Well then.... It's a good thing baseball has umpires and golf tournaments (even the ones I played in in college and high school much less the PGA Tour) have decision makers whose decisions are final. Players abide by them, mistakes and all. After all, the batter won't be right all the time when "calling himself out" so his only recourse is to abide by the umpires decision ONLY.

    Stealing signs with the naked eye is NOT against the rules of baseball and never will be. If a team cannot communicate in a way that other teams cannot decipher, that is on THEM, not on the team who is playing their hardest, both on the field and from the dugout, noticing signs and using them to their advantage. If you are talking about stealing signs using other more devious methods, that's a different story. What would you do to them?
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Well then.... It's a good thing baseball has umpires and golf tournaments (even the ones I played in in college and high school much less the PGA Tour) have decision makers whose decisions are final. Players abide by them, mistakes and all. After all, the batter won't be right all the time when "calling himself out" so his only recourse is to abide by the umpires decision ONLY.

    Stealing signs with the naked eye is NOT against the rules of baseball and never will be. If a team cannot communicate in a way that other teams cannot decipher, that is on THEM, not on the team who is playing their hardest, both on the field and from the dugout, noticing signs and using them to their advantage. If you are talking about stealing signs using other more devious methods, that's a different story. What would you do to them?
    What do you do to the cheats that knowingly take a walk when they really struck out?

  15. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    What do you do to the cheats that knowingly take a walk when they really struck out?
    What about when the umpire is wrong and they get punched out on a pitch out of the strike zone?

  16. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    What do you do to the cheats that knowingly take a walk when they really struck out?
    Cheer him if he's on my team and try to pick him off if he's not. After all, the ump will make some mistakes in FAVOR of my team as well, AND make FEWER mistakes than the players you want calling their own pitches will make. It's not as if a pitch on the corner is triple sealed with forensic tape in the presence of the pitcher eliminating any problems or misinterpretation like Braun's sample was sealed forensically with his assistance, arrived just as it did the last time Braun held it.

    Laced with synthetic testosterone.


    But, just for fun, leTs say the ump calls BALL FOUR. Ryan Braun says, "Blue, that was on the black, ring me up." The Umpire does just that. But, on the way out of the batters box, Yadier Molina says, "Hold up Mr. Braun, that pitch was wide by a bit. Take your base sir". Braun turns around and heads toward first. Then, Jason Motte the Cards Pitcher says, "no, that was on the black guaranteed."

    Should they call you to decide? Maybe get an arbitrator??
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  17. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltin' Joe View Post
    What about when the umpire is wrong and they get punched out on a pitch out of the strike zone?
    You mean the catcher doesn't hold his hand, overrule the umpire, and skip with the newly overjoyed batter down to first, hug him, wish him luck and let the Pitcher know it's gonna be ok?

    I swear I've seen this a hundred times...
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  18. #678
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    It's official: the "Cheating To Lose" notion has been eclipsed.
    3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Joltin' Joe View Post
    What about when the umpire is wrong and they get punched out on a pitch out of the strike zone?
    Well if we are pretending this game is about honor the pitcher and catcher should ask him to take a walk.

  20. #680
    Stan,
    So then your objection is arbitrary?
    If not then why is this the only complaint. You argue both sides.

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