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Thread: Ryan Braun busted for PED use; faces 50 day ban

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Who peed on the outside of the box? When did this happen? Good thing the samples were caped and sealed...
    It was a Cardinals fan.

    They were mad at Nyjer Morgan's antics so they broke into the collector's fridge, stole the sample, dumped horse testosterone into it, then resealed it but accidentally let some spill on the box. They thought Braun's sample was Morgan's. We know that two other Brewers were tested the same day.

    That's how it happened. I know because it was on the radio!

  2. #362
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    No way! You're wrong, waaay wrong!

    My proofs are all contained here:

    http://oxforddictionaries.com/?region=us

    Not necessarily in order, but they are there.

  3. #363
    Any sophomore with a term paper due can tell you Kinkos is open nights.

    Once you have failed to handle the sample in the manner YOU AGREED TO then the presumption that it is even the correct sample to test is out the window. If the time frame is unimportant, why put it in there? They put in rules to protect players, now folks want to vilify Braun because he used a rule as intended. If he hadn't complied with every jot and tittle of the procedure for providing the sample, do you think MLB would have blown it off with a pat on the back and a "no worries, brah?" Fat chance. He probably gets a fine or suspension for that alone.

  4. #364
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    Same crap as last night everyone should just agree to disagree.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaysFan_98 View Post
    Same crap as last night everyone should just agree to disagree.
    Listen to the man!

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinWI View Post
    It was a Cardinals fan.

    They were mad at Nyjer Morgan's antics so they broke into the collector's fridge, stole the sample, dumped horse testosterone into it, then resealed it but accidentally let some spill on the box. They thought Braun's sample was Morgan's. We know that two other Brewers were tested the same day.

    That's how it happened. I know because it was on the radio!


    Horseface? Nah...

    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  7. #367
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    Uh-Oh....



    Braun did not dispute the positive IRMS test in his defense in front of the arbitration panel, according to two sources with knowledge of the hearing.

    The allegations of tampering
    During his news conference Friday, Braun suggested that his sample must have been tampered with to have resulted in a positive test. He said that he had no idea why he would have tested positive for elevated levels of testosterone (and he was never asked during the news conference why he might have had synthetic testosterone in his system).

    According to multiple sources with knowledge of the hearing, possible tampering of the specimen was not raised as a defense, and Montreal lab director Christiane Ayotte testified that she saw no signs of tampering when the lab received the specimens.

    "Neither Mr. Braun nor the MLBPA contended in the grievance that his sample had been tampered with or produced any evidence of tampering," said MLB executive vice president Rob Manfred in a statement released Friday afternoon.

    The collection process would have played out this way: Braun would have urinated into a sample cup, in full view of the doping control officer or DCO. The DCO would have then taken the cup and poured the sample into two other sample cups, one marked "A," and one marked "B."

    A lid would have been placed on both cups, with forensic chain-of-custody tape used to seal both cups, while Braun watched. The cups would have been turned upside down to show no leakage. A source with knowledge of the case and doping issues told "Outside the Lines" that if someone tried to lift the tape or tear it off, it would be reflected on the bottle because the tape sticks.

    "There's no way to replace it without that showing," said the source. "You can bet that if there was suggestion this guy intentionally sabotaged the sample, the case never would have gone forward. If that were the case, MLB's 13-man investigative unit and the FBI should have been called in."


    Catlin also said that if the sample had been tampered with, it would have been evident when the sample itself was tested. "[Ayotte] would have caught that," he said.


    From an ESPN story.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  8. #368
    Braun's full of crap.

    During the hearing he DIDN'T dispute the positive result nor claim tampering, and today, after he's "cleared" on a technicality he DOES.
    I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game.
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  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Uh-Oh....
    Screw, does someone in the MLB really think this helps anything? This is what happens when results don't go someone's way: they go against contractual agreements with the Player's Union and leak like a faucet?

    All of it unattributable and therefore unactionable of course.
    This is worse than sad. Whoever's doing this should be fired and sued.

    Not defending Braun, anything coming from his camp is dismissed as well since they know they can make any claim at all without any official repercussion as MLB is contractually gagged.

    But this rumor mongering is just bad business. Wrestling with pigs comes to mind......

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by RaysFan_98 View Post
    Same crap as last night everyone should just agree to disagree.
    Well that would be no fun

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by CandlestickBum View Post
    Screw, does someone in the MLB really think this helps anything? This is what happens when results don't go someone's way: they go against contractual agreements with the Player's Union and leak like a faucet?

    All of it unattributable and therefore unactionable of course.
    This is worse than sad. Whoever's doing this should be fired and sued.

    Not defending Braun, anything coming from his camp is dismissed as well since they know they can make any claim at all without any official repercussion as MLB is contractually gagged.

    But this rumor mongering is just bad business. Wrestling with pigs comes to mind......
    Exactly. We know the MLB doesn't like the result. Not only did they throw one of their star players out to dry in a public statement, but now they're continuing to allow leaks in an attempt to continually damage Braun's reputation. I wouldn't be surprised if the leak itself that Stan just posted was from Rob Manfred himself, who has acted like (excuse the French) a little bitch through this entire process. Their testing system is broken and has suffered a breech the size of Texas, but rather than address the problems, MLB is continuing to attack Braun publicly.

    Their drug testing process failed.

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by CandlestickBum View Post
    Screw, does someone in the MLB really think this helps anything? This is what happens when results don't go someone's way: they go against contractual agreements with the Player's Union and leak like a faucet?

    All of it unattributable and therefore unactionable of course.
    This is worse than sad. Whoever's doing this should be fired and sued.

    Not defending Braun, anything coming from his camp is dismissed as well since they know they can make any claim at all without any official repercussion as MLB is contractually gagged.

    But this rumor mongering is just bad business. Wrestling with pigs comes to mind......
    Exactly......................

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinWI View Post
    Exactly. We know the MLB doesn't like the result. Not only did they throw one of their star players out to dry in a public statement, but now they're continuing to allow leaks in an attempt to continually damage Braun's reputation. I wouldn't be surprised if the leak itself that Stan just posted was from Rob Manfred himself, who has acted like (excuse the French) a little bitch through this entire process. Their testing system is broken and has suffered a breech the size of Texas, but rather than address the problems, MLB is continuing to attack Braun publicly.

    Their drug testing process failed.
    Because MLB knows this probably isn't the first time and there for if the public got wind of it they would lose faith in the MLB and there testing.

  14. #374
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    The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has uncovered who the urine sample collector was.

    Dino I. Laurenzi Jr. of Kenosha, Wisconsin. He's an athletic trainer unaffiliated with the Brewers who runs a sports medicine practice down there in Kenosha (about an hour south of Milwaukee, for those unfamiliar with the area).

    Kenosha is filled with Cubs fans. It's fairly close to the Illinois border. I have family there, and the stores there sell both Packers and Bears clothes. Both Brewers and Cubs merchandise. Hmmm. Could Mr. Laurenzi be a Cubs fan? Is that a wiff of motive I smell there?

    I have constantly detested the way that the Cubs fanbase treated Steve Bartman after the 2003 playoffs, but God help me, I hope Laurenzi gets some Bartman treatment from Brewers fans.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinWI View Post
    The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has uncovered who the urine sample collector was.........Dino I. Laurenzi Jr. of Kenosha, Wisconsin.........Kenosha is filled with Cubs fans.....Hmmm. Could Mr. Laurenzi be a Cubs fan?...... Is that a wiff of motive I smell there?........I hope Laurenzi gets some Bartman treatment from Brewers fans.
    Your attitude is dripping with hypocrisy.
    I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game.
    - Walt Whitman

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinWI View Post
    Braun should receive the benefit of the doubt from all of us.
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinWI View Post
    the urine sample collector was Dino I. Laurenzi Jr....I hope Laurenzi gets some Bartman treatment from Brewers fans.

    I see that giving the benefit of the doubt is highly conditional in your world.
    I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game.
    - Walt Whitman

  17. #377
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    For anyone not interested in embasrrassing conspiracy theories, Mr Laurenzi is hardly some Wrigley yahoo.

    Dino Laurenzi, who four sources said was the collector, has collected specimens for MLB since 2005 as well as the NFL and NHL through his job with Comprehensive Drug Testing.
    Part of me hopes this is the way Braun's camp is going to go. Public opinion already seems to be running pretty solidly against him. Baselessly impugning the integrity of someone with professional credentials like this will only make him look worse. He needs to quit while he's ahead. Foolishly pressing on, trying to affirmatively prove his innocence, is not going to work much better for him than it did for Clemens.

  18. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnakamura View Post
    Your attitude is dripping with hypocrisy.
    Quote Originally Posted by jnakamura View Post
    I see that giving the benefit of the doubt is highly conditional in your world.
    So I'm supposed to give some clown the benefit of the doubt after everybody here decided Braun was guilty?

    90% of this message board has already convicted Braun because of a positive urine sample that questionable at best.

    I'm convicting Laurenzi because of evidence and a theory that is questionable at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Bravos View Post
    For anyone not interested in embasrrassing conspiracy theories, Mr Laurenzi is hardly some Wrigley yahoo.
    Yeah? And how many years was Pete Rose a stand-up guy before he started betting on baseball? How for many years was Tim Donaghy a model NBA referee before started betting on basketball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Bravos View Post
    Part of me hopes this is the way Braun's camp is going to go. Public opinion already seems to be running pretty solidly against him.
    Why? Because you want Braun to lose?

    Braun went out of his way to not to imply any wrongdoing by the part of Laurenzi in his press conference today. I believe his exact words were "I would hate to wrongly accuse somebody."

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Bravos View Post
    Baselessly impugning the integrity of someone with professional credentials like this will only make him look worse.
    Oh yeah. Pee cup holder for seven years. What historic and impressive professional credentials. I am blown away by this man's qualifications. He should run for President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Bravos View Post
    He needs to quit while he's ahead. Foolishly pressing on, trying to affirmatively prove his innocence, is not going to work much better for him than it did for Clemens.
    Except there was more evidence against Clemens than a urine sample. Brian McNamee and others had evidence that Clemens had used PEDs. We also saw Clemens get HUGE from 1998-2007 and his performance freakish spiked as he got older.

    Where is ANY person who said they saw Braun use performance enhacning drugs? Anybody? Anybody from the Miami Hurricanes? Anybody who played with him in the minors? Anybody?

    What about his body? We've seen no changes to his body. Yes, I know, PEDs affect everybody differently. But wouldn't somebody with THREE TIMES the highest level of testosterone in their body have some kind of physical changes to their body?

    And since we're talking about testosterone. Why testosterone? Yes, people juicing take it. But it's kind of a simple PED, isn't it? I mean, Barry Bonds was taking the clear and the cream. Fancy things designed by BALCO to avoid being detected. Other guys have been caught with expensive designer PEDs and human growth hormone. Why would Braun, a multi-millionaire, pick testosterone? Surely, there are other drugs that can get better results. Testosterone is not an illegal drug. You can find it at GNC stores. It almost makes you wonder if a two-bit hack pee cup holder and sports trainer got some testosterone and dumped HUGE amounts of it into a ball player's urine sample because he wanted to make it look like he tested positive for PEDs.

    What about his performance? Any performance surges? Since high school, he's been about a .330 hitter, averaging about 30 home runs a year. In college, he averaged about 10 HR a year over a 50 game season. He's had no power surges over the last few years.

    The whole "Braun took PED argument" hinges on a single piece of evidence, the urine sample, which disappeared for 44 hours and is questionable at best.
    Last edited by KevinWI; 02-24-2012 at 11:42 PM.

  19. #379
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    The reason I mentioned Clemens is that his insistence on that farcical congressional hearing after McNamee fingered him is why he's going to trial this year. Had he simply let things lie, he wouldn't have on the record perjury to be charged with. Insisting you are innocent when you're not isn't a great idea.

    I'm not even going to address most of the rest of that stuff, except to say that Braun most definitely did assert today that the only way the sample he gave was positive is if it was tampered with and your 90% figure is absolute hyperbole.
    Last edited by Los Bravos; 02-24-2012 at 11:51 PM.

  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Los Bravos View Post
    The reason I mentioned Clemens is that his insistence on that farcical congressional hearing after McNamee fingered him is why he's going to trial this year. Had he simply let thing lie, he wouldn't have on the record perjury to be charged with. Insisting you are innocent when you're not isn't a great idea.
    Again, you're assuming Braun isn't innocent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Bravos View Post
    I'm not even going to address most of the rest of that stuff, except to say that Braun most definitely did assert today that the only way the sample he gave was positive is if it was tampered with
    He made it clear that the break in the chain of custody made the urine sample was questionable and impossible to be trusted, but in the question-and-answer bit after the press conference, a reporter asked Braun specifically if he thought the collector had tampered with his sample and Braun said point-blank that after being wrongly accused, he would hate to wrongly accuse somebody.

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