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Thread: Ryan Braun busted for PED use; faces 50 day ban

  1. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltin' Joe View Post
    What about glasses, contacts, or lasik?
    Performance enhancing along the lines of lifting weights and working out. Or fielding grounders and taking BP. All enhance performance, all perfectly acceptable, availiable to all players, nothing requiring secrecy, etc.
    Last edited by StanTheMan; 03-03-2012 at 07:52 AM.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  2. #652
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    I'm waiting for the days when cybernetics will give us better body parts than our natural limbs and organs. Couldn't a player opt to get artificial eyes that allow him to see better even without a medical need? Even if there was a medical need, would they be forced to get lesser implants so they wouldn't be given an unfair advantage? Here's the kicker. What if you could opt for implants that allow you to see in near infrared? What if you could upgrade your lungs and heart without consequences? It seems to me in that world, steroids would be regarded in that time much in the way we disregard greenies and cocaine now.
    RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

  3. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Venom View Post
    I'm waiting for the days when cybernetics will give us better body parts than our natural limbs and organs. .
    Depending on your definition, tomorrow is here today.

    Lasik, various eye implants, surgery that results in stronger tendons.

  4. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich the Giants fan View Post
    Lasik is legal in the United States and approved by Major League Baseball. That, sir, is the distinction.
    Ooh. So it is arbitrary. Ok.

  5. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Not what I said or meant Yankee.
    The subject that came up was what about Lasik surgery................my answer if it's not banned and any player can use that, there can't be any problem.
    Certainly can't be in the same class a PEDs which are banned.
    Not sure I get your question.
    They are Ped's just some get clearance some don't. Some have gotten winks in the past. Like don't do this but if you do we will pay you more.

    As has been pointed out the legal Peds are just as dangerous or moreso than the illegal ones.

    So why?

  6. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Can we get serious.
    Why? Golfers are supposed to do that.

  7. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Why? Golfers are supposed to do that.
    Don't understand this reply. You spoke about an ump calling a pitch a ball and the batter knowing it was a strike should
    sit down and call himself out, your post #638. Thats what you said, my reply............can we get serious.
    Now you say golfers are supposed to do that
    I don''t get your reply at all.

  8. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    They are Ped's just some get clearance some don't. Some have gotten winks in the past. Like don't do this but if you do we will pay you more.

    As has been pointed out the legal Peds are just as dangerous or moreso than the illegal ones.

    So why?
    If MLB allows anything for treating an injury then it can't be banned, your saying it's legal.
    Your stretching this one out.................there is no problem with using any substance that is not banned, where are we going with this one.It's simple to understand.

  9. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Don't understand this reply. You spoke about an ump calling a pitch a ball and the batter knowing it was a strike should
    sit down and call himself out, your post #638. Thats what you said, my reply............can we get serious.
    Now you say golfers are supposed to do that
    I don''t get your reply at all.
    Joe, I believe (not sure, because I never played golf) he means golfers are on an "honor system", they have to police themselves on the course and deduct a stroke for any of the various rule infractions tha might occur. Apparently he thinks baseball should adopt this system. Not necessary, as baseball has four umpires on the field, while golfers are on thir own.
    "Tactics were resorted to, unworthy of fair, manly players" - Brooklyn Eagle, June 12,1890

  10. #660
    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    Joe, I believe (not sure, because I never played golf) he means golfers are on an "honor system", they have to police themselves on the course and deduct a stroke for any of the various rule infractions tha might occur. Apparently he thinks baseball should adopt this system. Not necessary, as baseball has four umpires on the field, while golfers are on thir own.
    OK, thanks OAP. That thought went through my mind but was not sure, never played golf, so I thought I would make sure, what the poster meant, I think you confirmed my thought.

    To tell you the truth and I'm sure the poster will read this, it was a silly reply. Beating around the bush about steroid use and other prodedures that are not illegal and any player can use those procedures, no fear of penalty.

    I say to the poster, for that matter why don't see players doing that now, without "Super eye sight"...............ump calls a runner safe on a tag play......the player says, nope he got me. I'm out.....sillier and sillier. Hence my words, can we get serious.

  11. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Don't understand this reply. You spoke about an ump calling a pitch a ball and the batter knowing it was a strike should
    sit down and call himself out, your post #638. Thats what you said, my reply............can we get serious.
    Now you say golfers are supposed to do that
    I don''t get your reply at all.
    Simple golfers are required to call a foul on themselves. Why shouldn't baseball players turn around and say to the ump. "No that was strike three" and walk to the dugout. Why not? If it was really a strike, taking that walk is not fair.

  12. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    If MLB allows anything for treating an injury then it can't be banned, your saying it's legal.
    Your stretching this one out.................there is no problem with using any substance that is not banned, where are we going with this one.It's simple to understand.
    So again the only problem is some arbitrary decision that says they can use A but not B??

  13. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    OK, thanks OAP. That thought went through my mind but was not sure, never played golf, so I thought I would make sure, what the poster meant, I think you confirmed my thought.

    To tell you the truth and I'm sure the poster will read this, it was a silly reply. Beating around the bush about steroid use and other prodedures that are not illegal and any player can use those procedures, no fear of penalty.

    I say to the poster, for that matter why don't see players doing that now, without "Super eye sight"...............ump calls a runner safe on a tag play......the player says, nope he got me. I'm out.....sillier and sillier. Hence my words, can we get serious.
    No it was not a "silly reply". Your position is the "silly" one. That is what I was trying to point out. Thinking players are not taking every advantage they can to win and excel is silly.

  14. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    No it was not a "silly reply". Your position is the "silly" one. That is what I was trying to point out. Thinking players are not taking every advantage they can to win and excel is silly.
    I'm trying to be polite with the word silly, it's beyond that.

    Why don't players do that now on players being tagged out....tell the ump he was wrong, I'm was out and walk to the bench. Tell the ump you were wrong, I didn't check the swing with two strikes, you missed the call, I'm out. Even if this foolishness was true, players could not over rule the ump.........

    Are you getting the point of this nonsense
    You can have the last word on players being honest, not much more I can say.

  15. #665
    No you are being rude and condescending when it is your position that is "silly".

    But your next point is correct. Why don't they do that? If they were out, they should go sit down. IF they were playing strictly by the rules on some honor code.

    This is baseball not golf.

    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    I'm trying to be polite with the word silly, it's beyond that.

    Why don't players do that now on players being tagged out....tell the ump he was wrong, I'm was out and walk to the bench. Tell the ump you were wrong, I didn't check the swing with two strikes, you missed the call, I'm out. Even if this foolishness was true, players could not over rule the ump.........

    Are you getting the point of this nonsense
    You can have the last word on players being honest, not much more I can say.

  16. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Ooh. So it is arbitrary. Ok.
    Absolutely, completely 100% arbitrary and up to MLB and it's rules makers to decide what is allowed in the drug use arena. eye surgery, and changes to players bodies. 100% up to them, and it always will be.


    Arbitrary baby!!! Much like balls and strikes. Outfield fence depth, etc. You ever watch a game? I'm assuming yes, yet you choose to make silly points about certain PED use being banned by MLB (coincidentally many of them are also illegal to handle, sell, and consume in the USA) being ARBITRARY... in the sport with the MOST Arbitrary rules of all the major sports?


    Seems like you are being quite conditional with what you object to, and how.
    Last edited by StanTheMan; 03-04-2012 at 03:26 PM.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  17. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    Simple golfers are required to call a foul on themselves. Why shouldn't baseball players turn around and say to the ump. "No that was strike three" and walk to the dugout. Why not? If it was really a strike, taking that walk is not fair.
    Again, astonishly shortsided and a poor attempt at diminishing the quality of the alternate opinion.

    Are you SURE you want to suggest that every batter who would do this, would NEVER BE WRONG? Would always have a better view than the home plate umpire, who is DIRECTLY behind the plate? Has a view of the lateral movement of the ball far superior to that of the batter?

    Awaiting your reply... because if a SINGLE batter ever made an error, calling himself out on strike three on a close pitch, only to see on replay he was wrong, then the ONLY solution is to revert to the umpires decisions ruling absolutely once again... and you'll have to come up with a new way to try to simultaneously suggest players are trying really really super hard.
    Last edited by StanTheMan; 03-04-2012 at 03:28 PM.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  18. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Again, astonishly shortsided and a poor attempt at diminishing the quality of the alternate opinion.

    Are you SURE you want to suggest that every batter who would do this, would NEVER BE WRONG? Would always have a better view than the home plate umpire, who is DIRECTLY behind the plate? Has a view of the lateral movement of the ball far superior to that of the batter?

    Awaiting your reply... because if a SINGLE batter ever made an error, calling himself out on strike three on a close pitch, only to see on replay he was wrong, then the ONLY solution is to revert to the umpires decisions ruling absolutely once again... and you'll have to come up with a new way to try to simultaneously suggest players are trying really really super hard.
    In a way one could say that Braun called himself out by flunking a urine test. It's very unlikely that there was any tampering with the specimen.

    Different from golf, but baseball and the players' union seem to have some agreement about PEDs. My guess is that Braun's case would have been handled differently were he black or Hispanic, and not a favorite of Selig.

  19. #669
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    Race and favoriticism has zero to do with anything imo.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  20. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Absolutely, completely 100% arbitrary and up to MLB and it's rules makers to decide what is allowed in the drug use arena. eye surgery, and changes to players bodies. 100% up to them, and it always will be.


    Arbitrary baby!!! Much like balls and strikes. Outfield fence depth, etc. You ever watch a game? I'm assuming yes, yet you choose to make silly points about certain PED use being banned by MLB (coincidentally many of them are also illegal to handle, sell, and consume in the USA) being ARBITRARY... in the sport with the MOST Arbitrary rules of all the major sports?


    Seems like you are being quite conditional with what you object to, and how.

    No. But you can't have it both ways. Why do you object to PED use? Is it because it is unfair? Or because it gives an advantage players in the past did not have??

    Why???

  21. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Again, astonishly shortsided and a poor attempt at diminishing the quality of the alternate opinion.

    Are you SURE you want to suggest that every batter who would do this, would NEVER BE WRONG? Would always have a better view than the home plate umpire, who is DIRECTLY behind the plate? Has a view of the lateral movement of the ball far superior to that of the batter?

    Awaiting your reply... because if a SINGLE batter ever made an error, calling himself out on strike three on a close pitch, only to see on replay he was wrong, then the ONLY solution is to revert to the umpires decisions ruling absolutely once again... and you'll have to come up with a new way to try to simultaneously suggest players are trying really really super hard.
    No. The batter will not always be correct. Neither will the golfer. But if he knows he did something wrong, shouldn't he play by the rules and go sit down. Rather than faking his way on base.

    Why is it ok to do that? Why is it ok to steal a sign? Baseball is not an honor sport. So don't claim that is why one objects to PED's.

  22. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    No. But you can't have it both ways. Why do you object to PED use? Is it because it is unfair? Or because it gives an advantage players in the past did not have??

    Why???



    MLB does not allow them. In many instances (depending on thensubstance) laws in this country do not allow them either. It seems to me those taking the position that the law is wrong and the rules of MLB are wrong should be the ones being asked to explain their position, not me.

    Ball in your court then.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  23. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    No. The batter will not always be correct. Neither will the golfer. But if he knows he did something wrong, shouldn't he play by the rules and go sit down. Rather than faking his way on base.

    Why is it ok to do that? Why is it ok to steal a sign? Baseball is not an honor sport. So don't claim that is why one objects to PED's.
    Well then.... It's a good thing baseball has umpires and golf tournaments (even the ones I played in in college and high school much less the PGA Tour) have decision makers whose decisions are final. Players abide by them, mistakes and all. After all, the batter won't be right all the time when "calling himself out" so his only recourse is to abide by the umpires decision ONLY.

    Stealing signs with the naked eye is NOT against the rules of baseball and never will be. If a team cannot communicate in a way that other teams cannot decipher, that is on THEM, not on the team who is playing their hardest, both on the field and from the dugout, noticing signs and using them to their advantage. If you are talking about stealing signs using other more devious methods, that's a different story. What would you do to them?
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  24. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Well then.... It's a good thing baseball has umpires and golf tournaments (even the ones I played in in college and high school much less the PGA Tour) have decision makers whose decisions are final. Players abide by them, mistakes and all. After all, the batter won't be right all the time when "calling himself out" so his only recourse is to abide by the umpires decision ONLY.

    Stealing signs with the naked eye is NOT against the rules of baseball and never will be. If a team cannot communicate in a way that other teams cannot decipher, that is on THEM, not on the team who is playing their hardest, both on the field and from the dugout, noticing signs and using them to their advantage. If you are talking about stealing signs using other more devious methods, that's a different story. What would you do to them?
    What do you do to the cheats that knowingly take a walk when they really struck out?

  25. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
    What do you do to the cheats that knowingly take a walk when they really struck out?
    What about when the umpire is wrong and they get punched out on a pitch out of the strike zone?

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