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Thread: Ryan Braun busted for PED use; faces 50 day ban

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by drstrangelove View Post
    Stunner!

    I will hold on to see if he made a stupid buy of something OTC. I really think well-paid players should be smarter than this. You can afford to higher people to select stuff for you and avoid this.

    Just to keep an open mind: it's possible he took something that was not properly labeled, etc. It's a black eye if it turns out to be something else.
    Yes, it's best to keep an open mind until the case is resolved. Innocent until proven guilty.

    But it sure looks bad.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJbaseball00024 View Post
    All the people who raked Reyes over the coals for pulling out of the game to preserve his batting average and win the batting title look crapfaced right now.
    Why? It was still the wrong way to play the game, regardless of what anyone else may or may not have done.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    Numerous players in the NFL have won awards while also testing positive. They even did a revote after a guy came up positive and he still won the award.


    If it was possible to find out one way or the other I'd put a thousand bucks down on Matt Kemp using PEDs as well.
    You may be right. But he hasn't. One has and one hasn't....big difference. Also, please don't compare the NFL. Most hard core football fans don't even care about steroid use. Mention steroid user in the sports world and you hear Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire etc., never the name of some 6'5" 397 lb. guy who runs a 4.4 40 and plays plays on team X's offensive line. We know all those guys are using. Hell, in the town I live in my nephew told me at least 50% of his high school football team uses them. Am I to believe that by college or the NFL, suddenly they get a conscience? They seem to welcome it. The testing is a joke anyway and if anyone wants to use the stuff and mask it, they can.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankwood View Post
    You may be right. But he hasn't. One has and one hasn't....big difference. Also, please don't compare the NFL. Most hard core football fans don't even care about steroid use. Mention steroid user in the sports world and you hear Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire etc., never the name of some 6'5" 397 lb. guy who runs a 4.4 40 and plays plays on team X's offensive line. We know all those guys are using. Hell, in the town I live in my nephew told me at least 50% of his high school football team uses them. Am I to believe that by college or the NFL, suddenly they get a conscience? They seem to welcome it. The testing is a joke anyway and if anyone wants to use the stuff and mask it, they can.
    Yes, kind of hypocritical, isn't it?
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  5. #55
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    what is the significance level of the drug tests...99% or 95%? I only ask because while reading the article and realized that nobody has ever fought and beat a ruling...yet there have been around 30-35 suspensions and probably thousands of tests overall since they began testing which if we are testing at 95% or even 99% then we can expect at least a few false positives.

    Not saying this is the case, but I feel it is strange that we treat the tests like they are 100% accurate, and the league treats it as though it is 100% accurate yet we know through the scientific method that it is not at all 100% accurate.
    Lisa: [showing off a tomato the size of a beach ball] I've grown a futuristic tomato by fertilizing it with anabolic steroids.
    Bart: The kind that help our Olympic athletes reach new peaks of excellence?
    Lisa: The very same.

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankwood View Post
    You may be right. But he hasn't. One has and one hasn't....big difference. Also, please don't compare the NFL. Most hard core football fans don't even care about steroid use. Mention steroid user in the sports world and you hear Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire etc., never the name of some 6'5" 397 lb. guy who runs a 4.4 40 and plays plays on team X's offensive line. We know all those guys are using. Hell, in the town I live in my nephew told me at least 50% of his high school football team uses them. Am I to believe that by college or the NFL, suddenly they get a conscience? They seem to welcome it. The testing is a joke anyway and if anyone wants to use the stuff and mask it, they can.
    I know you are using hyperbole to make a point...but this always bugs me....there has never been a 6'5'' 397 LB guy who has run a 4.4 40. There have only been a handful of guys who have been anywhere near 397 lbs. The heaviest person I have ever heard of that ran around a 4.4 was Jevan Kearse who was something like 265.

    The same goes when people mention 300lb linebackers (also do not exist).
    Lisa: [showing off a tomato the size of a beach ball] I've grown a futuristic tomato by fertilizing it with anabolic steroids.
    Bart: The kind that help our Olympic athletes reach new peaks of excellence?
    Lisa: The very same.

    -The Simpsons episode 9F14 "Duffless"

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by nt07077 View Post
    Give Kemp his MVP. Ban him for life.

    Why would they give Kemp the MVP and then ban him for life? lol
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg1dj View Post
    what is the significance level of the drug tests...99% or 95%? I only ask because while reading the article and realized that nobody has ever fought and beat a ruling...yet there have been around 30-35 suspensions and probably thousands of tests overall since they began testing which if we are testing at 95% or even 99% then we can expect at least a few false positives.

    Not saying this is the case, but I feel it is strange that we treat the tests like they are 100% accurate, and the league treats it as though it is 100% accurate yet we know through the scientific method that it is not at all 100% accurate.
    Do we? I'm not a scientist. Are you?
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg1dj View Post
    I know you are using hyperbole to make a point...but this always bugs me....there has never been a 6'5'' 397 LB guy who has run a 4.4 40. There have only been a handful of guys who have been anywhere near 397 lbs. The heaviest person I have ever heard of that ran around a 4.4 was Jevan Kearse who was something like 265.

    The same goes when people mention 300lb linebackers (also do not exist).
    Bruce Campbell, Maryland, 6-7, 310, tackle. Dazzled scouts at the combine when he ran the 40-yard dash in 4.8 seconds. If you can forgive the hyperbole, you get the point.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankwood View Post
    Bruce Campbell, Maryland, 6-7, 310, tackle. Dazzled scouts at the combine when he ran the 40-yard dash in 4.8 seconds. If you can forgive the hyperbole, you get the point.
    That's neither a linebacker, nor anywhere near 397 lbs.
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich the Giants fan View Post
    That's neither a linebacker, nor anywhere near 397 lbs.
    Who said anything about linebackers? The point being made is that steroids are not the "black mark" in football that they are in baseball. I'll bet there aren't football websites that sit and argue about if so and so was a better running back only because of steroid use.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankwood View Post
    Who said anything about linebackers? The point being made is that steroids are not the "black mark" in football that they are in baseball. I'll bet there aren't football websites that sit and argue about if so and so was a better running back only because of steroid use.
    "I know you are using hyperbole to make a point...but this always bugs me....there has never been a 6'5'' 397 LB guy who has run a 4.4 40. There have only been a handful of guys who have been anywhere near 397 lbs. The heaviest person I have ever heard of that ran around a 4.4 was Jevan Kearse who was something like 265.

    The same goes when people mention 300lb linebackers (also do not exist)."

    There.

    And maybe it's not, but perhaps it should be. The main reason it is not is pretty much because football doesn't have the same type of "hallowed" numbers that baseball and its rich history, do.
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  13. #63
    First, he is innocent until proved guilty (and I'm a Dodger fan who thinks Matt Kemp should have been the MVP), and I have the funny feeling that he didn't do what his not-so-illustrious predecessors did, or in the same way, precisely for what I am about to say. Namely, if Braun did this or something like it, he is dumber than a box of rocks.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankwood View Post
    Riiiiiight.....and a cup of coffee changes your overall body mass equal to HGH.
    This is just more ignorance of what fans dont know, and their willingness to let certain law breaking be allowed. Especially when the names Aaron and Mays are involved. Amphetamines are a cup of coffee?? Riiiiiight.

    Amphets enhance performance and are illegal. Really nothing to say after that. You cant just do something less illegal and be innocent can you? Can you be a little bit pregnant? Uhhhh no. Performance enhancing and illegal is performance enhancing and illegal. End of story.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 12-11-2011 at 10:41 AM.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    This is just more ignorance of what fans dont know, and their willingness to let certain law breaking be allowed. Especially when the names Aaron and Mays are involved. Amphetamines are a cup of coffee?? Riiiiiight.

    Amphets enhance performance and are illegal. Really nothing to say after that. You cant just do something less illegal and be innocent can you? Can you be a little bit pregnant? Uhhhh no. Performance enhancing and illegal is performance enhancing and illegal. End of story.
    well I don't agree that amphetamines are equal to steroids. steroids give you a bigger bang.

    However steroids were not available in the 50s. So I think that someone who used greenies then would have used steroids if they are available...
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    well I don't agree that amphetamines are equal to steroids. steroids give you a bigger bang.

    However steroids were not available in the 50s. So I think that someone who used greenies then would have used steroids if they are available...
    I never said they were equal. My point is illegal is illegal, and performance enhancing is performance enhancing.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    well I don't agree that amphetamines are equal to steroids. steroids give you a bigger bang.

    However steroids were not available in the 50s. So I think that someone who used greenies then would have used steroids if they are available...
    Some steroids produce a bigger "bang" than others. Amphetamines are classified as a performance enhancing drug, and for good reason. That players have used them for decades cannot be disputed.
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    I never said they were equal. My point is illegal is illegal, and performance enhancing is performance enhancing.
    How anybody, at this late date, can look at greenies as equal to steroids is beyond me. Yes, greenies were illegal, but they didn't produce results that would trash the record books. If they did, Willie Mays or Mickey Mantle would have hit 70 home runs, too. Greenies don't completely change your physiology. Look at pictures of Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa before and after, and tell me they would have gotten the same results with greenies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    If they did, Willie Mays or Mickey Mantle would have hit 70 home runs, too.
    Or maybe they would have hit only 10 without them and Mantle's tape measure HRs would have been easy outs. We'll never know.


    My feeling about PEDs and HGH is that the issue was far more widespread than just the guys who got huge numbers. I can guaranty that many people used them and got no results and no increase in numbers. There is a certain amount of raw talent that is necessary to connect with the ball and hit major league pitches. Nobody just walking off the streets can start taking PEDs or HGH and suddenly hit 70 home runs. And you aren't going to see a .200 hitter take enhancement drugs start crushing the ball, hit .300 and 60 HRs either.

    But Braun was beyond simple PEDs.

    "What he did triggered violation of #MLB steroid-testing policy," Rosenthal wrote. "Source says substance was prohibited, but not PED."

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb
    Last edited by doctor_gogol; 12-11-2011 at 12:41 PM.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    How anybody, at this late date, can look at greenies as equal to steroids is beyond me. Yes, greenies were illegal, but they didn't produce results that would trash the record books. If they did, Willie Mays or Mickey Mantle would have hit 70 home runs, too. Greenies don't completely change your physiology. Look at pictures of Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa before and after, and tell me they would have gotten the same results with greenies.
    This is what I mean by ignorant thinking. Do you realize Mantle couldnt play some days without the help of greenies coming in off of a hangover. They are illegal and peformance enhancing.

    Again nobody is saying that they have as big an impact as steroids, but they have a level of impact.

    How do you know that Mays and Mantle wouldnt have only hit 25 homers without them? When you mention certain names...my Lord some guys get very defensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    Actually, I did. I even quoted from it. Do I get extra credit?
    Am philosophically against so called "extra credit". How about a gold star or a cookie?

    But seriously, there seems to be more than a smidgeon of doubt here yet people are rushing to out do each other in villifying him.

    Do far we have elevated tesosterone and possible synthetic testosterone, all from a unnamed source.

    My main take is I wish the whole process was more transparent and that the players union would push for more stringent testing, just of PEDS, someone wants to ruin themselves with so called recreational drugs, well, that's on them. Don't need to be a morales police, just police the sport.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Spokesperson for Braun;
    "There are highly unusual circumstances surrounding this case which will support Ryan's complete innocence and demonstrate that there was absolutely no intentional violation of the program.
    Interesting wording there from Braun's camp. They are, by that wording, virtually admitting he did violate the MLB drug rules, but did so "unintentionally".

    So are they implying somebody slipped him an HGH mickey?
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    This is just more ignorance of what fans dont know, and their willingness to let certain law breaking be allowed. Especially when the names Aaron and Mays are involved. Amphetamines are a cup of coffee?? Riiiiiight.

    Amphets enhance performance and are illegal. Really nothing to say after that. You cant just do something less illegal and be innocent can you? Can you be a little bit pregnant? Uhhhh no. Performance enhancing and illegal is performance enhancing and illegal. End of story.
    You don't think there's wrong in varying degrees? Is stealing the same as murder? Man. Get real. If steroids and speed is the same affect, you're living a sheltered life.

  24. #74
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    Wow, disappointing. In any case Kemp was the best choice for MVP anyways.
    Chop! Chop! Chop!

  25. #75
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    http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/...21525877440513

    Ken Rosenthal tweets "Source: Braun tested positive for a prohibited substance, not a performance-enhancing drug. More coming on FOXSports.com"

    That source is reportedly close to Braun, not MLB.
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