10th Greatest Negro L. Pitcher

**Bill Burgess** · 12-30-2011, 11:14 AM

Congratulations to Martin Dihigo, for winning 9th Greatest Negro L. Pitcher! He won 4 of our 10 votes (40%). Martin beat out Cannoball Jackman who received 3 votes (30%) and John Donaldson, who also received 3 votes (30%). And it will only get tougher from here on out!! Hope we can get 15 voters from now on.

This round for our 10th Greatest Negro L. Pitcher is now open! Let the Games Begin!

1. Satchel Paige
2. Smokey Joe Williams
3. Bullet Joe Rogan
4. Rube Foster
5. Willie Foster
6. Hilton Smith
7. Jose Mendez
8. Ray Brown
9. Martin Dihigo
10.

As per our usual, please consider everything. Counting totals, peak, longevity, awards, intangibles, team strength, special skills, etc. Thanks, guys

We are now ONLY voting for the 8th Pitcher. Only vote for ONE PERSON.

Normally, we would close the poll after 10 days, but in this case, we will remain open until we get at least 15 voters.

**Bill Burgess** · 12-30-2011, 11:14 AM

Here are some background Reference Resources:

It might serve a purpose to see how many former members of the Negro Leagues have presently been enshrined.

1971 - Satchel Paige --------- Negro L. committee
1972 - Josh Gibson --------- Negro L. committe
1972 - Buck Leonard --------- Negro L. committee
1973 - Monte Irvin ---------- Negro L. committee
1974 - "Cool Papa" Bell -------- Negro L. committee
1975 - Judy Johnson -------- Negro L. committee
1976 - Oscar Charleston ------ Negro L. committee
1977 - Martin Dihigo -------- Negro L. committee
1977 - "Pop" Lloyd -------- Negro L. committee

1981 - Rube Foster - ---------Veterans committee
1987 - Ray Dandridge ---------- Veterans committee
1995 - Leon Day ----------- Veterans committee
1996 - Willie Foster ----------- Veterans committee
1997 - Willie Wells ------------ Veterans committee
1998 - Bullet Joe Rogan --------- Veterans committee
1999 - Smokey Joe Williams ------ Veterans committee
2000 - Turkey Stearns ----------- Veterans committee
2001 - Hilton Smith - -------------Veterans committee
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A. In 1952, the Pittsburgh Courier polled 31 Negro league players, writers, officials and managers and they selected the following team:

A Team------------------------B Team

1B - Buck Leonard-----------1B - Ben Taylor
2B - Jackie Robinson---------2B - Bingo DeMoss
SS - John Henry Lloyd-------SS - Willie Wells
3B - Oliver Marcell-----------3B - Judy Johnson
LF - Monte Irvin-------------LF - Pete Hall
CF - Oscar Charleston-------CF - Cool Papa Bell
RF - Christobal Torriente----RF - Chino Smith
C - Josh Gibson / Biz Mackey-C - Campanella / Bruce Petway
P - Smokey Joe Williams------P - Dave Brown
P - Satchel Paige------------P - Cannonball Dick Redding
P - Bullet Joe Rogan---------P - Nip Winters
P - John Donaldson ----------P - Dizzy Dismukes
P - Willie Foster-------------P - Don Newcombe
Utility OF - Martin Dihigo---Utility 1B - John Beckwith
Utility IF - Martin Dihigo----Utility 1B - Newt Allen
Utility IF - Sam Banheart---Utility - Clint Thomas
Coaches - Dizzy Dismukes--coaches - C. I. Taylor
Coaches - Danny McClelland--coaches - Dave Malarcher
Manager - Rube Foster-------Manager - Cum Posey
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The Pittsburgh Courier, a black newspaper, polled its fans in 1952. Their readers listed the following players into 5 teams:

First team: (1B) Buck Leonard, (2B) Jackie Robinson, (SS) Pop Lloyd, (3B) Oliver Marcelle, (OF) Monte Irvin, (OF) Oscar Charleston, (OF) Cristobel Torriente, (C) Josh Gibson, (C) Biz Mackey, (P) Joe Williams, (P) Satchel Paige, (P) Bullet Rogan, (P) John Dondaldson, (P) Bill Foster, (Utility) Martin Dihigo, (Utility) Sam Bankhead, (Mgr) Rube Foster, (Coach) Dizzy Dismukes, (Coach) Danny McClellan.

Second Team: (1B) Ben Taylor, (2B) Bingo DeMoss, (SS) Willie Wells, (3B) Judy Johnson, (OF) Pete Hill, (OF) Cool Papa Bell, (OF) Chino Smith, (C) Roy Campanella, (C) Bruce Petway, (P) Dave Brown, (P) Dick Redding, (P) Nip Winters, (P) Dizzy Dismukes, (P) Don Newcombe, (Utility) John Beckwith, (Utility) Newt Allen, (Mgr) Cum Posey, (Coach) C.I. Taylor, (Coach) Dave Malarcher.

Third Team: (1B) Jud Wilson, (2B) Bill Monroe, (SS) Dick Lundy, (3B) Jud Wilson, (OF) Rap Dixon, (OF) Larry Doby, (OF) Fats Jenkins, (C) Double Duty Radcliffe, (C) Louis Santop, (P) Slim Jones, (P) Bill Holland, (P) Phil Cockrell, (P) Webster McDonald, (P) Bill Byrd, (Utility) Emmett Bowman, (Utility) Dick Wallace, (Mgr) Ed Bolden.

Fourth Team: (1B) Ed Douglas, (2B) George Scales, (SS) Doby Moore, (3B) Ray Dandridge, (OF) Jimmy Lyons, (OF) Mule Suttles, (OF) Spotswood Poles, (C) Frank Duncan, (C) Bill Perkins, (P) Double Duty Radcliffe, (P) Frank Wickware, (P) Danny McClellan, (P) Leon Day, (P) Bill Jackman, (Utility) Rev Cannady, (Utility) Jose Mendez, (Mgr) Vic Harris.

Fifth Team: (1B) George Carr, (2B) Bunny Downs, (SS) Pelayo Chacon, (3B) Dave Malarcher, (OF) Frank Duncan, (OF) Turkey Stearnes, (OF) Jelly Gardner, (C) Doc Wiley, (C) Speck Webster, (P) Stringbean Williams, (P) Ray Brown, (P) Rats Henderson, (P) Luis Tiant, (P) Leroy Matlock.

Others receiving votes: (1B) Leroy Grant, Mule Suttles; (2B) Nate Harris, Sammy T. Hughes, Frank Warfield, Ray Dandridge, George Wright, Harry Williams; (SS) Gerard Williams, Bobby Williams, Morton Clark; (3B) Bill Francis, Jim Taylor; (OF) Minnie Minoso, Jap Payne, Blaine Hall, Ted Strong, Ted Page, Vic Harris; (P) Jose Mendez, Laymon Yokely.

*Some players that weren't listed but could have been: (1B) Buck O'Neil, Red Moore, Steel Arm Davis, George Giles; (2B) Bonnie Serrell; (SS) Jake Stephens; (3B) Alec Radcliffe, Bobby Robinson; (OF) Jumbo Kimbro, Willard Brown, Bill Wright, Neil Robinson, Ducky Davenport; (C) Quincy Trouppe, Larry Brown, Buck Ewing, Pops Coleman; (P) Chet Brewer, Hilton Smith, Barney Brown, Ted Trent, Max Manning, Sug Cornelius, Harry Salmon, Barney Morris; (Mgr.) Buck O'Neil, Double Duty Radcliffe.
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Supplimental Player Profiles, as provided by Jim Albright:

Dave Brown
The pitching ace of the Chicago American Giants during the early 1920s, Brown had numerous effective pitches and the ability to win with either power or control. Brown was quiet and popular with his teammates in spite of consistently finding himself on the wrong side of the law. In 1925 he killed a man in a barroom fight and dropped out of sight to avoid conviction, cutting short a career that had tremendous promise.

Rube Foster
The most important figure in the establishment of the Negro Leagues, Foster is one of the most important figures in all of baseball history. In 25 years of black baseball, he was an excellent administrator, perhaps the greatest manager in black baseball history, and among the best few pitchers in the early part of his career. A crafty pitcher who featured a screwball, Foster was a dominant hurler in the 1900s, starring for a few teams, including the powerhouse Leland Giants from 1907-10. In 1910 he split with owner Frank Leland and formed his own team, the Chicago American Giants. Foster influenced black baseball for decades by building the Giants into a winner relying upon good pitching, excellent defense, and a bunting/free-running offensive attack. In 1920 he founded the Negro National League, the first "true" Negro League, and served as its president while running his own club. Thousands paid their respects after Foster's premature death in 1930.

Willie Foster
The younger half-brother of Rube, Willie starred for big brother's American Giants club from 1923-1930. Generally accepted as the best left-handed pitcher in black baseball history, Foster performed at his best when the game was most important. One example: he won the Negro National League pennant for the American Giants in 1926 by starting and winning both ends of a doubleheader to end the season against fellow Hall-of-Famer Bullet Joe Rogan. A power pitcher, Foster had good control and threw five different pitches well. He was likable, well-respected and educated - a dean at Alcorn State College after completing a career that established him as among the greatest pitchers - of any color.

Ted Radcliffe
Called "Double Duty" for his dual role as starting pitcher and top catcher, Radcliffe is a unique figure in the annals of baseball history. No other pitcher at a Major League level has spent virtually his entire career as a full-time player on his off-days, let alone as a catcher, easily the most demanding position on the diamond. Of course, we can just as easily look at it the opposite way and observe that no starting player, never mind a catcher, has also taken a regular turn in solid pitching rotations for most of a career that spanned past the end of the color line. A superior catcher and solid pitcher, "Duty" played in numerous All-Star contests, as both catcher and a pitcher. He had a steady throwing arm, was quick defensively, and was a solid batter. As a pitcher he enjoyed throwing a variety of illegal pitches to confound the opposition. A ballplayer who always gravitated toward the fattest paycheck, Radcliffe never spent more than two successive seasons with the same team until the very end of his career, retiring as a unique competitor in the rich history of our national pastime.

Dogdaze has contributed these next 2 excellent sketch profiles of Willie Foster and Hilton Smith.

Willie (Bill) Foster, LHP:

Elected to the HOF in 1996: http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/ho...layerId=492565

Elected to BBTF's HOM: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/...on/bill_foster

According to Macmillan Encyclopedia, Foster's stats:
W 137 L 62 G 265 CG 161 IP 1659 H 972 BB 370 SO 734

According to Negro League Historian John Holway:
W 155 L 65 W% .721, 4-1 vs. major-league competition
6-8 in one season in Cuba, 14-1 in the California Winter League.

According to James A. Riley, The Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues;
W 130, L 54 in NEL competition, 14 wins, 1 loss in the California winter league.

Willie Foster was one of the greatest left-handed pitcher’s from the Negro Leagues, with a good fastball, devastating change-up, a "12 to 6 o'clock curve," and pinpoint control, William Hendrick Foster (Rube Foster's half-brother) was an intelligent power pitcher with near-perfect control and a variety of pitches, all delivered with the same fluid motion. Occasionally, he would use a hesitation wind-up. Foster was a stylish lefty in the mold of Warren Spahn. In 1926 he won 26 consecutive games.

, Foster pitched a two-game series against an America League all-star team composed of players from the Tigers, Browns, Indians, and White Sox. He struggled in the first game, but followed with a shutout in the second contest, pitching eight innings of no-hit ball and striking out nine. Available box scores show Foster winning 11 of 21 against Satchel Paige.

"Willie Foster's greatness was that he had this terrific speed and a great, fast-breaking curveball and a drop ball, and he was really a master of the change-of-pace. He could throw you a real fast one and then use the same motion and bring it up a little slower, and then a little slower yet. And then he'd use the same motion again, and Z-zzz. He was really a great pitcher."
- Dave Malarcher

Jocko Conlon, a Hall of Fame umpire, regarded Foster comparable to another Hall of Famer, Herb Pennock but said that Foster was a little faster. Conlon added that Foster was "really something to watch."

"If I could paint you white I could get $150,000 for you right now."
- Charlie Gehringer

“Willie Foster was the greatest left-hander that I ever played with. He could have made history if he could have played in the Big Leagues."
-Double Duty Radcliffe

"All the years I played, I never got a hit off him. He threw fire."
- Buck Leonard

Hilton Smith, RHP:

Elected to the HOF 2001; http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/ho...layerId=492583

Not elected to BBTF's HOM. But absolutley worthy IMO.
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/...n/hilton_smith

According to Macmillan Encyclopedia:
W 69 L 33 G 137 CG 45 IP 725 H 560 BB 131 SO 338

According to Negro League Historian John Holway:
70 wins 28 Losses in NEL competition with a .714 winning percentage.

Latin America numbers according to Holway:
6-3 in Cuba in 1937. 4-2 in Cuba in 1939.
3-5 in Mexico in 1941, with a 3.88 ERA. 13-11 in Mexico in 1942.

6-1 against Major Leaguers in exhibition play

Hilton Smith's career NgL stats per the research project:
146 G, 83 GS, 53 CG, 71-31, 5 SV, 812.1 IP, 674 H, 304 R, 152 ER, 3.37 R/G, 1.68 ERA, 470/96 K/BB

According to James A. Riley, The Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues;

He had a lifetime record of 161 wins against 32 losses in league play. He compiled a 10-5 record pitching 2 years in Cuba. He pitched in six consecutive All Star games, 1937-1942, striking out 13 batters, tying with Satchel Paige for second place on the all-time All Star list. He pitched one year in Venezuela with an 8-5 record, and pitched against the New York Yankees in Venezuela, and allowed the Yankees only 1 hit in 5 innings to earn the win in a 4-3 victory.

Hilton Smith had one of the best curveball in baseball, many have stated that Smith was the best all-around pitcher in the Negro Leagues. In addition to his excellent curve balls, he had a high, hard fastball, a sinker, a slider, and a change of pace, all of which he threw both sidearm or overhand, maintaining good control with both styles of delivery.

During much of his career, Smith acted as a long-reliever to the legendary Satchel Paige. In order to attract a crowd, Paige would start the game, pitch the first few innings, often leaving after a once-through of the opposing lineup. Then Smith would pitch the remainder of the game. Despite playing in the shadow of Paige, Smith led the league in pitching victories five times, an accomplishment unequaled by any other Negro League pitcher. Bob Feller said Smith was better than Paige.

Smith was named to six consecutive East-West All-Star games (1937-1942). Smith pitched brilliantly in exhibitions against white major leaguers, collecting six wins with just one loss in the contests. Bill James in The New Historical Baseball Abstract called Hilton Smith the best Negro leagues player in 1939, 1941, and 1942, while naming Paige only once, in 1936.

Smith sometimes felt unhappy about constantly being Paige's shadow. "I won 161 games and lost only 32 but most people do not even know of me. I took my baseball seriously. Doing the job and being the best pitcher I could be was my aim. I'm taking nothing away from Satch, he produced and could clown around and get away with it. Being in the shadow of Paige really hurt me but there was nothing I could do about it. My personality was opposite of that of Satch. I never did crawl out from under his shadow."

Asked which was better, Paige or Smith, Hall of Famer and veteran of both the Negro and major leagues Roy Campanella said, “Migod, you couldn’t tell the difference!”

Teammate Allen Bryant said, "We never told him but he was the best pitcher we had including Satchel Paige."

“You better get your runs early” – against Paige – “ ‘cause you ain’t gonna get any runs after Smith came in.”
– Gene Benson

"Hilton Smith was unbeatable there for a spell, from 1938 to 1942,"
-Buck O'Neil

“I don’t see how in the world you ever lose a ball game,” Biz Mackey said after a game pitched by Smith.

"He would have been a 20-game winner in the Major Leagues with the stuff he had. We played against an All-Star team once with Stan Musial and Johnny Mize, and they said they'd never seen a curveball like Hilton's curveball." -Buck O'Neil

“Hilton, in my estimation, had the most ability of any pitcher of my time.”
– Quincy Trouppe
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Form Chart:

"Cannonball" Dick Redding, (1911-1938)
Dave Brown, (1918-1925)
Bill 'Willie' Foster, (1923-1938)
Ray Brown (1930-1948)
Hilton Smith (1932-1948
Jesse 'Nip" Winters (1920-1933)
Will 'Cannonball' Jackman (1925-1936)
Jose Mendez (1908-1926)
John Donaldson (1913-1934)
Walter Ball (1903-1923)

**Bill Burgess** · 12-30-2011, 11:15 AM

Might I persuade anyone to consider voting in our other 19th Century polls?

6th Greatest Negro League Player

10th Greatest Negro League Hitter

If your choice does not appear on the ballot, please ask to have him added. We aim to please.