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Thread: BBF Mets franchise HOF round three

  1. #1
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    BBF Mets franchise HOF round three

    This election will close on February 4, 2012, at 7:00 a.m EST.

    This is the third round for this franchise. The previous round is here


    We inducted the following players:
    David Cone
    Sid Fernandez
    Dwight Gooden
    Keith Hernandez
    Howard Johnson
    Cleon Jones
    Jerry Koosman
    Jon Matlack
    Mike Piazza
    Tom Seaver
    Darryl Strawberry

    And the following contributors:
    Frank Cashen
    Gil Hodges
    Davey Johnson
    Ralph Kiner

    PLEASE READ THE FORMAT AND RULES SECTION BEFORE VOTING. THANK YOU.

    FORMAT AND RULES

    Purpose: The purpose of this project is to create a Hall of Fame for each franchise whereby each franchise will honor those individuals whose contributions and accomplishments are most notable, significant, and enduring to that franchise's history. This project is not about simply honoring those with the best statistics with each franchise.

    Standards: Each franchise has its own unique history and context, and thus contributions and accomplishments that may stand out remarkably within one franchise's history, may not be so remarkable in another franchise's history. Standards from franchise to franchise will inherently vary, and thus there should be no impetus to create equal standards among the franchises or to aspire to the standards of the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Consequently, subjectivity within the context of the franchise in question will play an inevitable role when considering an individual's contributions and accomplishments with respect to that franchise. In sum, a franchise's Hall of Fame should be unaffected by the standards and contexts of other franchises as well as the National Baseball Hall of Fame, and should be entirely a product of its own history.

    Election Format: Elections will be conducted one franchise at a time starting in chronological order with the oldest continuously and currently operational franchise. Each election will last approximately five days.
    - Ballot Size: Voters can select up to 15 players and 5 contributors per election. There is no minimum ballot size.
    - Ballot Editing: To account for ongoing discussion, voters may edit their ballots as often as necessary through the end of an election.
    - Election Percentage: Any individual that is listed on at least 75% of either the player or contributor submitted ballots will be elected to that team's Hall of Fame. In instances where an individual receive votes as both a player and a contributor, that individual will be elected if listed on at least 75% of ballots in either category or if the individual's combined vote total is at least 75% of the category with the greatest number of ballots submitted. However, a minimum of six votes is required to elect anyone.
    - Subsequent Rounds: After an election has been performed for each franchise, a second round of elections will commence, again proceeding in chronological order. A third round of elections (and perhaps beyond) may also be held depending on interest.

    Eligibility:
    - Players: Players may be considered by any currently operational franchise for which they appeared and are eligible either immediately upon officially retiring or after having not appeared at any level of professional baseball for an entire season for reasons not due to injury.
    - Contributors: Individuals that contributed in other capacities to a franchise may be considered, including managers, coaches, executives, owners, and broadcasters. Mascots are eligible. Contributors that are still active may only be elected by their current employing franchise, and cannot be considered by prior employing franchises until no longer active (this does not apply to individuals who are employed by a franchise only in nominal and/or non-integral ways, such as in scouting, consulting, or public relations capacities).
    - Multiple Capacities: The totality of contributions and accomplishments with respect to a franchise are to be considered, and thus an individual can only be elected once by a franchise. For purposes of ballot size limits, an individual should be designated either a player or contributor based on what the voter perceives to be the individual's greater role with the franchise. An individual should not be listed as either a player or contributor merely to facilitate ballot space for the other category.
    - Relocations/Renaming: Franchises that have relocated and/or been renamed, may still consider and elect individuals that were with the franchise prior to the relocation/renaming.
    - Multiple Franchises: An individual may be considered and elected by multiple franchises.

    Franchise History
    - Founded: 1962 (NL for entire existence)
    - Former Locations/Names:

    Titles
    - World Series Championships: 2 (1969, 1986)
    - Pennants: 4 (1969, 1973, 1986, 2000)
    - Division Titles: 5 (1969, 1973, 1986, 1988, 2006)
    - Wild Card Berths: 2 (1999, 2000)

    Helpful Links
    The following links are all courtesy of baseball-reference.com, baseball-almanac.com, and wikipedia.com, and may assist voters in determining an individual's impact on this franchise:
    - Franchise Almanac
    - All Batters
    - All Pitchers
    - Batting Leaders
    - Pitching Leaders
    - Most Common Positional Starters
    - Most Common Pitching Staff Alignments
    - Managers
    - Notable Owners and Executives
    - Notable Broadcasters

    Award Recipients
    - MVP Recipients (0):

    - Cy Young Recipients (4): Dwight Gooden (1985), Tom Seaver (1975), Tom Seaver (1973), Tom Seaver (1969)

    - RoY Recipients (4): Dwight Gooden (1984), Darryl Strawberry (1983), Jon Matlack (1972), Tom Seaver (1967)

    - Batting Triple Crown (0):

    - Pitching Triple Crown (1): Dwight Gooden (1985)

    Multiple All Star Selections (no adjustment for double selections for 1959-1962)
    Code:
    Rank 	Player			Selections
    1	Tom Seaver		9
    t2	Mike Piazza		7
    t2	Darryl Strawberry	7
    4	David Wright*		5
    t5	Carlos Beltran*		4
    t5	Gary Carter		4
    t5	Dwight Gooden		4
    t5	John Stearns		4
    t9	Keith Hernandez		3
    t9	Jon Matlack		3
    t9	Jose Reyes*		3
    t12	Richie Ashburn		2
    t12	Bobby Bonilla		2
    t12	David Cone		2
    t12	Sid Fernandez		2
    t12	Tom Glavine		2
    t12	Jerry Grote		2
    t12	Bud Harrelson		2
    t12	Todd Hundley		2
    t12	Ron Hunt		2
    t12	Howard Johnson		2
    t12	Jerry Koosman		2
    t12	Pedro Martinez		2
    t12	Willie Mays		2
    t12	Jesse Orosco		2
    t12	Rick Reed		2
    t12	Frank Viola		2
    t12	Billy Wagner		2
    
    * Player is currently active
    Notable Managers (with at least 300 games managed with this franchise or at least one pennant win)
    Code:
    Manager			Games		Win %	WS Titles	Pennants	Div Titles	Wild Cards
    Yogi Berra		588		.497
    Dallas Green		512		.447			1		1
    Gil Hodges		649		.523	1		1		1
    Art Howe		323		.424
    Davey Johnson		1012		.588	1		1		2
    Jerry Manuel		417		.489
    Willie Randolph		555		.544			1
    Casey Stengel		582		.302
    Joe Torre		709		.405
    Bobby Valentine		1003		.534			1				2
    Wes Westrum		380		.375
    Last edited by jalbright; 01-25-2012 at 01:23 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  2. #2
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    My ballot
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    Al Leiter
    John Stearns
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  3. #3
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    Players
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    Ron Darling
    Lenny Dykstra
    Wayne Garrett
    Jerry Grote
    Bud Harrelson
    Al Leiter
    Dave Magadan
    Lee Mazzilli
    Tug McGraw
    Kevin McReynolds
    John Olerud
    Rick Reed
    John Stearnes
    Mookie Wilson

    Contributors
    Dallas Green
    Willie Randolph
    Bobby Valentine
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  4. #4
    Tommie Agee
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    Armando Benitez
    Gary Carter
    Ron Darling
    John Franco
    Tom Glavine
    Jerry Grote
    Bud Harrelson
    Todd Hundley
    Al Leiter
    Jesse Orosco
    John Stearns
    Frank Viola
    Mookie Wilson

  5. #5
    Players:

    Edgardo Alfonzo

    Al Leiter

    Mookie Wilson

    Contributors:

    Bob Murphy

    Lindsey Nelson

  6. #6
    Players:

    Tommy Agee
    Edgardo Alfonso
    Wally Backman
    Hubie Brooks
    Gary Carter
    Ron Darling
    George Foster
    John Franco
    Jerry Grote
    Bud Harrelson
    Ed Kranepool
    Al Leiter
    Lee Mazzili
    Rusty Staub
    Mookie Wilson

    Contributors:

    John McIlvaine
    Bob Murphy
    Lindsey Nelson
    William A. Shea
    Mel Stottlemyre
    Last edited by jjpm74; 01-25-2012 at 05:13 AM.

  7. #7
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    We're at five votes, which means we need at least one more to elect anyone and at least three more to have any chance at another election.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  8. #8
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    Edgardo Alfonzo
    Gary Carter
    Ron Darling
    Jerry Grote
    Bud Harrelson
    Tug McGraw
    Jesse Orosco

    Tim McCarver
    Bob Murphy
    Lindsey Nelson
    Joan Payson - her omission is a huge huge huge black mark against having team HOF votes by strangers to the franchise. This woman was the first owner of the franchise and was very much identified with the franchise
    William Shea
    Last edited by PVNICK; 01-26-2012 at 05:33 AM. Reason: added Mcgraw who I mistakenly thought was already elected and Carter b/c somehow I missed him (bad week apparently)

  9. #9
    I thought we were done with contributors for the Mets.... ?

  10. #10
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    At this point, only the Yankees are still considering contributors.

    The Mets now have six votes and can elect someone. They need two more to have a chance of another round, though with the way the vote is split, it still might not happen. If you think there's somebody missing who belongs, it's probably a good idea to campaign.

    Finally, I think when all the franchises are done, I'll give anyone who wants to campaign for anyone not already included in a franchise a chance to state their case. That will be the nomination. If it gets a second (I'll provide it for any decent case, though I'll reserve the right not to support the candidate in the voting). The details of the voting will have to be worked out depending on how many candidates we get. This is true for either players or contributors. Candidates will still need at least six votes and at least 75% of the vote to make it, so there should be no concern about watering down our standards. However, only nominated candidates will be voted on.
    Last edited by jalbright; 01-23-2012 at 07:09 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    ...
    Joan Payson - her omission is a huge huge huge black mark against having team HOF votes by strangers to the franchise. This woman was the first owner of the franchise and was very much identified with the franchise
    Actually, I'd say it's a failing of the fans of the franchise to attempt to educate the rest of us before this. That said, you'll get a chance to do exactly that, per my previous post.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  12. #12
    Players
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    Gary Carter
    Ron Darling
    John Franco
    Bud Harrelson
    Ed Kranepool
    Al Leiter
    Tug McGraw
    Rusty Staub
    John Stearnes
    Mookie Wilson

    Contributors
    Joan Payson
    Bob Murphy
    William Shea
    Bobby Valentine

  13. #13
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    Wally Backman
    Armando Benitez
    Hubie Brooks
    Gary Carter
    Ron Darling
    Lenny Dykstra
    John Franco
    Tom Glavine
    Todd Hundley
    Al Leiter
    Dave Magadan
    Kevin McReynolds
    John Olerud
    Rick Reed

    Last time I focused mostly on older guys, this time I'm focusing mostly on more modern fellows.
    Check out my stuff for sale on eBay! Jersey cards of Edinson Volquez, Craig Kimbrel and David Ortiz! Bat card of Troy Tulowitzki! Autographs of Drake Britton, Kyle Lotzkar, Casey Weathers, Michael Burgess, Bryan Anderson, Trevor Bauer, Adam Lind, John Ely and Lorenzo de la Cruz! Plus a guide on how to get autographs...for free!

    My website...
    My other website...
    My other, other website...

  14. #14
    Added Ron Darling. Deleted Tug McGraw. Darling was in my queue anyway and I see he's getting a lot of support this round. Between his pitching and his announcing, I think he merits inclusion.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    Actually, I'd say it's a failing of the fans of the franchise to attempt to educate the rest of us before this. That said, you'll get a chance to do exactly that, per my previous post.
    I know I made the same comments last time around and others chimed in. I don't quite have the time to do anything extensive and don't really appreciate being told effectively "its your fault we're not well informed"

  16. #16
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    Gary Carter
    Edgardo Alfonzo
    John Stearns
    John Franco
    Mookie Wilson
    Al Leiter
    Jesse Orosco
    Ron Darling
    Bud Harrelson
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it!" Dizzy Dean

    "I sure was having a picnic with Frisch. You oughta seen the fellows in the clubhouse when I was puttin' him on. They was duckin' behind posts, tryin' to keep Frank from seein' how they was laughin', an' I had a time keepin' a straight face myself. I hope Frank manages the Cardinals forever. I sure love to drive that Dutchman nuts!" Dizzy Dean

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    I know I made the same comments last time around and others chimed in. I don't quite have the time to do anything extensive and don't really appreciate being told effectively "its your fault we're not well informed"
    This project seeks to educate as well as provide enjoyment. Most franchises don't have a good hall project of their own, and I'm not interested in frequenting 30 franchise forums to discuss the best players of each franchise. I'm sure I'm not alone in that, and this project addresses that as best we can. That said, the contributor ballot isn't open this time, and you'll have another chance to state your case for her when the voting for all the franchises is done.
    Last edited by jalbright; 01-25-2012 at 07:21 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  18. #18
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    I'd say that it appears there will be another round of voting for the Mets players.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  19. #19
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    Owners after the guys that were around in the 19 aughts haven't done well. They've been regarded as primarily deep pockets, which isn't enough for our electorate. We're not all fans of one team, so that doesn't help, especially with contributors. Our electorate seems to be a pretty skeptical bunch on top of that, so a testimonial or two by our voters doesn't carry much weight. That's all we've gotten on behalf of Joan Payson, and may have swayed precisely one voter who didn't post a testimonial (she got three total). An argument for her was presented, but I think the evidence is clear that it failed to state a persuasive case on her behalf.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  20. #20
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    What's up with the condescending tone?

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    If I'm condescending, I apologize, but I feel you are in the same vein in your complaint, which IMHO implied we're the unwashed masses.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  22. #22
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    Touche. My bad.

  23. #23
    Payson was a minority owner of the NY Giants who voted against moving them to SF. When they moved, she used her money and influence to get NY a new baseball team. Also, being the huge Giants fan she was, she was instrumental in bringing back Willie Mays at the end of his career. That is pretty much it. She was team president when the Mets went to 2 World Series winning one of them, but what did she do to get them there? I don't see her omission as an oversight and I am a big fan of this franchise.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    Payson was a minority owner of the NY Giants who voted against moving them to SF. When they moved, she used her money and influence to get NY a new baseball team. Also, being the huge Giants fan she was, she was instrumental in bringing back Willie Mays at the end of his career. That is pretty much it. She was team president when the Mets went to 2 World Series winning one of them, but what did she do to get them there? I don't see her omission as an oversight and I am a big fan of this franchise.
    That bolded portion such as it is. But be that as it may she has been dead for nearly 40 years and isn't able to appreciate my apparently misguided homage.

    I double checked my own ballot and have had to made several additions liek McGraw and carter so I havn't exactly been the most careful of voters here.

  25. #25
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    My feeling was that when expansion came, the National League wanted New York as much as New York wanted a National League team. If that's the case, she needs something more notable to get my support. Maybe my impression is wrong, and I'll be happy to be educated on the point. Are there obituaries online that might make a better case for her?
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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