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Thread: 1901 - Present Keeper League Discussion

  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by rmadachik View Post
    I was an English major .... my mind is not made to spell asylum that way lol
    Hey, I don't mind changing it to ASSylum Inmates BUTT....It will require me posting a new team Logo
    There are 10 kinds of people. Those who get binary and those who don't.

  2. #142
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    How does this program rate people defensively?

    In other words, does it count Jeter as a good fielder or a bad one?

  3. #143
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    --Defensive ratings are strictly by the numbers, not reputation. You see some well regarded fielders with surprisingly low rating and vice versa. Also some guys who got a bad rep by making lots of errors will actually have good range (others will have bad range, but make few errors). And there will be swings in range from year to year, so don't expect the gold glover you draft this year to neccessarily achor your defense going forward.
    --Actually the above is true for seasons actually programmed by DMB. These early seasons are home brews by assorted gamers and may be based more on reputation? They have also been edited by Rich for our league so he would be better able to answer the question on reputation vs defensive stats.

  4. #144
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    I know a lot (most?) of the home brew seasons rate a high percentage of players as average, unless there is good evidence that rating should be adjusted one way or another. It also depends to an extent on how much time and effort a guy was willing to devote to digging up those fielding stats. I know Scott spent hours doing it because he told me how he went about assigning his fielding ratings, but Scott was a Diamond Mind anomaly, and I doubt there are a dozen guys in the world who devote the amount of time and effort that he did to DM.
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  5. #145
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    lew is right ... in these early homebrew seasons most players do have an average rating. One of the big adjustments I made to the era settings is I have normalized the error rate. There will still be more errors in the first 20 years but not at such an extreme rate. I am going to take lew up on his offer to creat a list of player fielding ratings for a 4 to 5 year period for those owners who are interested.
    Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmadachik View Post
    Rookie pay structure will be as follows:
    1-4: 3M
    5-8: 2.5M
    9-12: 2M
    13-16: 1.5M
    17-24: 1M
    25-32: 750K
    3rd round: 500K
    4th round: 250K
    There will only be 4 rounds
    Quote Originally Posted by rmadachik View Post
    1901 Season Redraft Rules

    All players from the year 1901 will be re-drafted. Player salaries and contract length for this initial draft will be automatic depending on what round they are taken.

    Round 1 - 15M
    Round 2 - 10M
    Round 3 - 8M
    Round 4 - 7M
    Round 5 - 6M
    Round 6 - 5M
    Round 7 - 4M
    Round 8 - 3M
    Round 9-12 - 2M
    Round 13-17 - 1M
    Round 18-21 - 750K
    Round 22-25 - 500K
    Round 26-30 - 250K

    Contract lengths will be as follows

    Round 1-2 - up to 8 years
    Round 3-5 - up to 6 years
    Round 6-10 - up to 5 years
    Round 11-15 - up to 4 years
    Round 16-30 - up to 3 years

    For the first draft you will need to choose contract lengths at the time your pick is made.
    I like the format of the rookie draft better, where the first several picks are differentiated in value. But I think that at least the top picks of the rookie draft should be more like the 1901 redraft, with significantly higher salaries. The #1 rookie each year is almost certainly going to be worth at least $10 mil, and possibly up to $20-25 million. Paying $21 million over 7 years for $175 million in value is absurdly unfair

  7. #147
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    Rich, with only 12 teams in the league, you should probably adjust the rookie pay structure. 25-32 will be most of the third round.

    Also, I like the way the CKL does rookie pay. It's more realistic that way (real life rookies get paid far below market value), and also makes rebuilding easier simply by adding cap space. Also, it increases the value of draft picks, leading to more player movement and thus more league activity.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Bedard View Post
    Rich, with only 12 teams in the league, you should probably adjust the rookie pay structure. 25-32 will be most of the third round.
    I agree with Eric. The rookie pay schedules for P2PKL and CKL are the same. However, P2PKL is a 12 team league, and the CKL is a 16 team league.

    Jack
    Illegitimi Non Carborundum

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Bedard View Post
    Rich, with only 12 teams in the league, you should probably adjust the rookie pay structure. 25-32 will be most of the third round.
    I agree with Eric. The rookie pay schedules for P2PKL and CKL are the same. However, P2PKL is a 12 team league, and the CKL is a 16 team league.

    Jack
    Illegitimi Non Carborundum

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Bedard View Post
    Rich, with only 12 teams in the league, you should probably adjust the rookie pay structure. 25-32 will be most of the third round.

    Also, I like the way the CKL does rookie pay. It's more realistic that way (real life rookies get paid far below market value), and also makes rebuilding easier simply by adding cap space. Also, it increases the value of draft picks, leading to more player movement and thus more league activity.
    I purpose the following

    1-4: 3M
    5-8: 2.5M
    9-12: 2M
    13-16: 1.5M
    17-20: 1M
    21-24: 750K
    3rd round: 500K
    4th round: 250K
    My dream ballpark dimensions
    LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
    RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
    Location....San Diego

  11. #151
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    Garry's suggested rookie pay schedule looks good for a 12 team league. Presuming the league lasts that long, I don't foresee any expansion at all until 1961 or 1962 and I imagine we'll have the 12 team structure right on through.
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  12. #152
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    I agree. That was an oversight on my part. Thanks Guys
    Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah

  13. #153
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    I still don't like that we're paying $3 million a year for players who may be worth seven times as much.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    I still don't like that we're paying $3 million a year for players who may be worth seven times as much.
    Wade, you have to understand that it's part of the "suspension of reality" that DM leagues hope to create. Remember, WE know what these guys did, but back in 1901 the teams that brought these guys along had no idea how good they could be. Also, with players separated from their original teams, teammates and ballparks, you have some idea of how well they may perform in this DM league, but there are certainly no guarantees. Anyone who has participated in these DM leagues knows that putting a hitter into a different home park, or even more dramatically putting a pitcher who in real life had tremendous defense and a pitcher's park into a hitter's park with poor defense can make a huge difference in performance.

    The best example I can think of was my White Sox team in another league I'm in. Two years ago they projected to have a horrible staff. In most of my test sims they were last or next to last in ERA, WHIP etc. Instead, they produced a very decent ERA and WHIP, with all but two or three performing much better than in real life. I never did figure out why; could have been just a quirk for that one sim, but it was the one that counted.
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    I still don't like that we're paying $3 million a year for players who may be worth seven times as much.
    Market inefficiencies are what make baseball fun.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    I still don't like that we're paying $3 million a year for players who may be worth seven times as much.
    What rookie starts off making $21 million a year? Albert Pujols made $200K, $600K, & $900K his first 3 seasons. This is what this pay scale is intended to represent. The value of players during their rookie contracts.
    My dream ballpark dimensions
    LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
    RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
    Location....San Diego

  17. #157
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    On another note, I was wondering if we will still be having only four rounds in the rookie draft, or should we perhaps go to five? With 16 teams, four rounds uses up 64 players. With only 12 teams, even five rounds will use only 60 players. Just something I thought of last night while thinking about Garry's suggested salary scale. I have no preference either way,just thought I'd mention it before everything gets set in stone.

    Also, I presume anyone not drafted goes into the FA auction, same as CKL.
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by catcher24 View Post
    Wade, you have to understand that it's part of the "suspension of reality" that DM leagues hope to create. Remember, WE know what these guys did, but back in 1901 the teams that brought these guys along had no idea how good they could be. Also, with players separated from their original teams, teammates and ballparks, you have some idea of how well they may perform in this DM league, but there are certainly no guarantees. Anyone who has participated in these DM leagues knows that putting a hitter into a different home park, or even more dramatically putting a pitcher who in real life had tremendous defense and a pitcher's park into a hitter's park with poor defense can make a huge difference in performance.

    The best example I can think of was my White Sox team in another league I'm in. Two years ago they projected to have a horrible staff. In most of my test sims they were last or next to last in ERA, WHIP etc. Instead, they produced a very decent ERA and WHIP, with all but two or three performing much better than in real life. I never did figure out why; could have been just a quirk for that one sim, but it was the one that counted.
    I understand that flukes happen - and there should be factors such as defense and ballpark that make a sizable difference. But over the course of multiple seasons, things will balance out (unless the sim is broken).

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Bedard View Post
    Market inefficiencies are what make baseball fun.
    We could pay these first pick players triple the starting $3 million and still be drastically underpaying some of them. Besides - it's not a market inefficiency if everyone agrees they're worth more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye View Post
    What rookie starts off making $21 million a year? Albert Pujols made $200K, $600K, & $900K his first 3 seasons. This is what this pay scale is intended to represent. The value of players during their rookie contracts.
    What rookie gets drafted where the team already knows how he'll produce? Besides, Pujols was a decade ago (and wasn't even taken in the first round).

    I'm not saying we have to pay them $20 mil a year. I'm saying $10 mil a year when they're likely going to be worth MORE than $20 mil is much more reasonable.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by catcher24 View Post
    On another note, I was wondering if we will still be having only four rounds in the rookie draft, or should we perhaps go to five? With 16 teams, four rounds uses up 64 players. With only 12 teams, even five rounds will use only 60 players. Just something I thought of last night while thinking about Garry's suggested salary scale. I have no preference either way,just thought I'd mention it before everything gets set in stone.

    Also, I presume anyone not drafted goes into the FA auction, same as CKL.
    That is a fair point Lew. With fewer actual teams though the player pool from which to draft is smaller so we may indeed find the pickings slim from 49-60. In 1902 for instance there are a total of only 39 players that average 100 PA/BF per season while under team control. On the other hand there are a total of 81 players with at least 1 season with 100+ PA/BF while under team control. Which is all it really takes to make a player draftable. Like you I'm fine with it either way.
    My dream ballpark dimensions
    LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
    RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
    Location....San Diego

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    I understand that flukes happen - and there should be factors such as defense and ballpark that make a sizable difference. But over the course of multiple seasons, things will balance out (unless the sim is broken).

    We could pay these first pick players triple the starting $3 million and still be drastically underpaying some of them. Besides - it's not a market inefficiency if everyone agrees they're worth more.

    What rookie gets drafted where the team already knows how he'll produce? Besides, Pujols was a decade ago (and wasn't even taken in the first round).

    I'm not saying we have to pay them $20 mil a year. I'm saying $10 mil a year when they're likely going to be worth MORE than $20 mil is much more reasonable.
    This would cause numerous problems. The more teams are paying their rookies the less money they have to spend on free agents. As a result you'd have the superstar players in their prime making about the same or often times less than the rookies. This is unrealistic. One of the ways for a team to rebuild in by trading for draft picks. In the CKL it's not uncommon for a team to aquire 1-2 additional 1st round picks. With a pay scale such as this a team wouldn't be able to afford to rebuild via draft picks. It would be more cost efficient for a rebuilding team to trade their 1st round picks and use the money to sign free agents. Think about it this way. $3 million is 3% of a teams salary cap. With a 40 man roster the average player makes $2.5 Million. So a rookie is already getting paid above the league average salary. $10 million would be 10% of the salary cap. Leaving a total of only $90 million for the other 39 players. Again a very unrealistic pay scale.
    My dream ballpark dimensions
    LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
    RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
    Location....San Diego

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