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Thread: 1901 - Present Keeper League Discussion

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by catcher24 View Post
    Franchise players can be designated any time up to their fourth year, but of course it goes without saying that there would be no advantage to designating one earlier because they you would have to pay the higher salary that much sooner. In CKL it has to be done after the fourth season but prior to the beginning of the fifth season, so there is a rather limited window available. I would also suggest doing it prior to the RFA process, since then you would know how much cap space you had left. Then again, you might want to wait until after the RFA so you would know how much you had left. I don't believe (although I could be wrong) that it has to be done at any certain point, though, other than before the final rosters are set for the following season. Rich may wish to set a definite deadline though.
    So if I want to designate a player as my Franchise player, but his 4th year happens in say 1917, that means I can't have any Franchise player from 1911-1916, correct?

    Also, do players we select in 1901 count as "rookies" for purposes of being Franchise players?

    In regards to the FA auction, I think it is a bit confusing because Rich didn't indicate any time frames for the bidding. This is set by the commissioner, so is somewhat discretionary, but let me go through how the process will work this off season in the CKL, with time frames added. (BTW, I think Rich left out one step of the process as well, but perhaps that is how he intends to run the FA auction, eliminating one of the steps we use in the CKL.)

    Our bidding begins at 9PM on Friday Feb. 24th. During this time period, you can bid on any player, with a minimum starting bid of 250K, and minimum 250K to increase a prior bid on the same player.

    At 8 PM Monday Feb. 24, after this initial period of bidding, the bidding will stop for a short time, usually an hour, say from 8PM to 9PM Monday. The commissioner and/or assistant (I do it in the CKL) will post a list of any player that has received an offer, along with the current bid on each player. This gets posted, and bidding then begins again. PLEASE NOTE that at this point in the CKL process, the bidding increment is still 250K. This will continue for 23 hours, or until 8PM on Tuesday Feb. 25th. At 8 PM on the 25th, the bidding stops for this first signing round. ANY PLAYER WHO HAS RECEIVED NO ADDITIONAL BIDS FROM MONDAY 9PM TO TUESDAY AT 8PM IS SIGNED BY THE LAST TEAM TO POST A BID FOR THAT PLAYER. Any player who received an additional bid since 9PM Monday OR any player receiving their first bid during this round, go on to the next pool.

    These would be all of the players not signed after the first signing phase. This phase begins at 9PM Tuesday Feb., and runs until 8PM Wednesday. The bid increment increases to 500K minimum. At 8PM Wednesday, the bidding again stops. Just as in Signing Phase one, any player that has not received an additional bid since 9PM Tuesday is signed by the last bidding team. Also again, any players receiving additional bids or any newly bid players during the round go on to the next phase.

    This phase starts at 9PM Wednesday and runs to 8PM Thursday. Minimum bid increase goes up to 1M. At 8PM Thursday, same as before: any player with no new bids goes to the bidding team; any players receiving additional bids or newly bid players this round go to the live bidding round.
    So these are all blind bids? And we have to make bids on every player simultaneously? So I might end up winning 3 shortstops accidentally?

    Kind of self explanatory. The bidding is now live (or as live as it can be on BBF). Minimum bid is 1M; any player not receiving a new bid for 10 minutes goes to the last bidding team.
    This might be a problem, since I'm in a drastically different time zone than most of you.
    Last edited by Wade8813; 02-03-2012 at 08:34 AM.
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  2. #77
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    every team can have one player per decade. that means that each team can have one player who they drafted between 1901-1909 as a franchise player, and one player drafted between 1910- and so on. In your example Wade.. . a player drafted in 1913 could be eligible for franchise designation in 1917. you could not have another franchise player whose rookie season was in the 1910's

    regarding the free agent auction The time frames will be flexible so as to allow for time zones and such. Also, the final round will not be live but rather will be a blind bidding. I hope that makes sense. any ties in the blind biding will go to the team who previously had the highest bid. I really like our live bidding but I agree that getting everyone on board is difficult and it's an important phase in free agency.

    The initial draft of 1901 players are not rookies and will not be eligible for franchise players.
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  3. #78
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    That certainly can make an interesting (and difficult) dynamic. You have a really good player, but there's a significantly better player who debuts in a couple years - but you don't know if you'll end up with that better player on your team.

    I'm still not entirely clear how we'll handle the auction. It sounds like each team will submit bids on every player they're interested in at once? Let's say I need a SS, and there are 3 I might be interested in. If I bid on all 3, I might get stuck with more SS than I wanted. If I only bid on the one I want most, I have to bid on him even if his price goes higher than I wanted, or else I won't have a SS.

    I assume if a player was a rookie in 1901 they can be a franchise player?
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  4. #79
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    Only players who are drafted in the rookie draft are considered rookies, and we are not doing a seperate rookie draft in 1901. you arent stuck with a guy in the franchise player position either. you could always release or trade him. and if you end up drafting a player better than your current fanchise player that decade you would have 4 years to figure out how to deal with it.

    Regarding the free agent auction. I would suggest as lew has to watch our CKL free agent auction so you can get a good idea on how it works. in your shortstop example you are right ... to an extent. absolutely you could get stuck with 3 shortstops but thats somewhat unlikely unless you overbid on all of them. and you certainly could get stuck if you don't have a backup plan ...Just like in real life MLB free agency. the key is having a plan and a good backup plan. I think you will find that's a big key to running a successful franchise here. last year, for example, my Beavers team needed a third baseman and I set my sights on Darrell Evans, but some dirty no good rotten owner who shall remain nameless Jay = bid him out of my price range so I had to regroup and in the end i overpaid a bit for Nettles but I had no better options at 3rd.
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  5. #80
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    Piggybacking on Wade's questions and the answers given, I have a couple of more questions:

    1. How often does the bidding get to the "live" portion in CKL?

    2. Are you saying that I can name a franchise player and then non-tender him and name another at any time within the decade? Let me use a hypothetical. I draft a great rookie in 1901 and before the start of the 1905 name him my franchise player. I pay him $12M per year for as long as I want to keep him. In 1910, I draft another great rookie. Fast forward to the 1913-14 pre-season. My 1901 franchise player is still an active player but is fading. I want to name my 1910 rookie as my franchise player to cap his salary at $12M. I can non-tender (or effectively cut) my old franchise player and name the 1910 rookie my new franchise player?
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmadachik View Post
    You arent stuck with a guy in the franchise player position either. you could always release or trade him. and if you end up drafting a player better than your current fanchise player that decade you would have 4 years to figure out how to deal with it.
    I thought you could only have selected one franchise player during a decade? That means if I select someone as my franchise player in 1910, I can't use my franchise tag on someone in 1919, even if the original franchise player is no longer on my team - correct?

    Regarding the free agent auction. I would suggest as lew has to watch our CKL free agent auction so you can get a good idea on how it works. in your shortstop example you are right ... to an extent. absolutely you could get stuck with 3 shortstops but thats somewhat unlikely unless you overbid on all of them. and you certainly could get stuck if you don't have a backup plan ...Just like in real life MLB free agency. the key is having a plan and a good backup plan. I think you will find that's a big key to running a successful franchise here. last year, for example, my Beavers team needed a third baseman and I set my sights on Darrell Evans, but some dirty no good rotten owner who shall remain nameless Jay = bid him out of my price range so I had to regroup and in the end i overpaid a bit for Nettles but I had no better options at 3rd.
    I plan to follow the auction (it would be nice if someone linked me to the post it starts on). Also, is there an old auction I can look at?

    In real MLB Free Agency, they deal with multiple players simultaneously, but they finalize contracts one at a time. They can't accidentally sign more shortstops than they wanted to.
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  7. #82
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    http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...-Agent-Auction

    ^^ there's last year's FA auction (which I didn't post at all in, oh the joys of having literally zero cap space).

    The bidding always gets to the live portion, but there's rarely more than ten players being bid on or two to three teams doing the bidding. It used to be super hectic, but it isn't any more.

    It's still usually a good idea to get on right before the deadline each night to maintain your high bids in case someone overbids you, but it's not absolutely vital unless you're still bidding on guys in the last section.

  8. #83
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    To Clarify the P2PKL franchise player rule (which varies slightly from the CKL rule i believe):
    You can only have one active franchise player who's rookie season is in a given decade. so each team may have one active fanchise player who's first season was in the 1900's, one franchise player who's rookie season was in the 1910's and so on. The decade that the players franchise status is assigned to is the decade he began playing - not the year he is assigned the franchise role.

    To clarify the P2PKL free agent auction - we will not do a 'Live' final phase. It will be replaced with a blind auction where every owner will submit a blind bid on the players they want who are remaining. highest bid once all bids are in gets the player. the 250k 500k, and 1M phases of free agency will run exactly the way they run in ckl
    Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah

  9. #84
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    Thanks. I was looking in the Offseason thread instead of looking for an Free Agent Auction thread. *facepalm*

    What do we do with players who BBRef only lists as OFers? (It doesn't specify if they play CF or LF/RF)
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  10. #85
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    in the leagues prior to 1927, I am working off of homebrew seasons (these are files that have been created by other DMB users. They have assigned fielding ratings based on where they traditionally played (Sam Crawford for example is listed as a right fielder in his BBRef profile so he is rated as a RF in the DMB file)

    Players can be assigned to play a position that they are not rated to play in the DMB program. and making that switch in the outfield is easy.
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  11. #86
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    1. How often does the bidding get to the "live" portion in CKL?
    Just once - the final night. The previous three nights, bidding stops at 8PM, and any players that have not received an additional bid since the previous night at 9PM get signed. Three phases of this: end of the 250K bid increment; end of the 500K bid increment; and end of the 1M bid increment. Any player who received an additional bid during the 1M increment phase goes into the live auction (as well as any players who receive a first bid during the 1M increment auction).

    Are you saying that I can name a franchise player and then non-tender him and name another at any time within the decade? Let me use a hypothetical. I draft a great rookie in 1901 and before the start of the 1905 name him my franchise player. I pay him $12M per year for as long as I want to keep him. In 1910, I draft another great rookie. Fast forward to the 1913-14 pre-season. My 1901 franchise player is still an active player but is fading. I want to name my 1910 rookie as my franchise player to cap his salary at $12M. I can non-tender (or effectively cut) my old franchise player and name the 1910 rookie my new franchise player?
    You cannot do this in the CKL; once you name a franchise player for your ten year period, that's it. If you trade him or cut him, you simply no longer have a franchise player from that period. I don't know if that's what Rich is planning on for this league. Wade seems to be asking the same thing, too, and Rich's answer is a bid ambiguous:

    You can only have one active franchise player who's rookie season is in a given decade. so each team may have one active fanchise player who's first season was in the 1900's, one franchise player who's rookie season was in the 1910's and so on. The decade that the players franchise status is assigned to is the decade he began playing - not the year he is assigned the franchise role.
    Emphasis above is mine. It does sound like you could pick another franchise player for a decade if you cut the first one. I know that's not permitted in the CKL, but I'm not sure of your intentions here.
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  12. #87
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    Regarding the free agent auction in CKL (a little off topic here), no, you don't bid blind. I try to update the bid list at least twice a day, and you always have the most recently posted one to refer to. Each post may only contain one bid, too, so if you're watching a particular player or two you can check the most recent update, then scan any subsequent posts to see if that player's bid has been increased. You'll see exactly what I mean when you look over last year's auction.

    Rich, I like the idea of blind auction for the final. Adds another little tweak/change to the CKL rules and adds a little more suspense than our live auction, where you always know what the other guy has bid. BTW, backing up to the Franchise Player, one post mentions 12M, but didn't you make the franchise player annual salary 10M for the new league?
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  13. #88
    Can we get a DB of 1901 to see who is rated at what OF position?

  14. #89
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    the rule for franchise players should read 10M. not sure where I put 12M in but i'll find it and fix it. also yes you can change your franchise player in a decade. I think I would lean toward an qualifier though:

    Any player drafted can be named a franchise player as long as the team doen not have a designated franchise player already on his roster at the beginning of the season that the player is drafted.

    for example .... You have a player designated as your franchise player and you end up with the first pick in the draft. you draft a player that you want to replace your current keeper. you would have to trade that player prior to opening day or release him before free agency for the player you drafted to be eligible as your keeper.

    I hope that's not too complicated.
    Last edited by rmadachik; 02-03-2012 at 10:20 PM.
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  15. #90
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    also, since 1901 is before Cy Young had completed his career, The award for pitcher of the year will be called the "Old Hoss Award" until the time comes when another player retires and earns the namesake.
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    So you can only have one franchise player at once and it has to be someone you drafted and you can't name them after the beginning of their fourth season, and if you draft someone that you intend on franchising but you have a current franchise player on your roster, you have to get rid of them?

    Example: let's say in 1903 I have the #1 pick and take Three Finger Brown, and franchise him. In 1907, I have the #1 pick again and take Tris Speaker. If I want to franchise Speaker in a few years, I have to trade Brown before Speaker plays, and then go until Speaker's fourth season without a franchise player?

    I think a better way to do it might be to say that you can apply the franchise tag at the beginning of any offseason to any player you originally drafted, provided they are still on your team, but you can only have one franchise player at a time, and if you remove the tag from one player then they immediately become a free agent.

  17. #92
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    --I prefer Dan's suggestion of having to drop the previous franchise player before actually giving the designation to another player. I assume you could still have 2 or even three franchise players at once if they were drafted in different decades though? Say you are rebuilding and get one in 1909, then another in 1910 and they are both still active when you land a third worthy player in 1920.

  18. #93
    I like Eriks reasoning. Removing tag equals releasing player.
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  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Bedard View Post
    So you can only have one franchise player at once and it has to be someone you drafted and you can't name them after the beginning of their fourth season, and if you draft someone that you intend on franchising but you have a current franchise player on your roster, you have to get rid of them?

    Example: let's say in 1903 I have the #1 pick and take Three Finger Brown, and franchise him. In 1907, I have the #1 pick again and take Tris Speaker. If I want to franchise Speaker in a few years, I have to trade Brown before Speaker plays, and then go until Speaker's fourth season without a franchise player?

    I think a better way to do it might be to say that you can apply the franchise tag at the beginning of any offseason to any player you originally drafted, provided they are still on your team, but you can only have one franchise player at a time, and if you remove the tag from one player then they immediately become a free agent.
    That's almost an exact duplicate of a rule I proposed a LONG time ago for the CKL, but it never flew. In fact, I think it is exactly the same. I had said that you should be able to tag a new player with the FP tag, but in order to do so you had to release your present FP. And it was a straight release, too, so that the player would enter the FA auction and the releasing team would get no compensation for them (like in a trade). I do like the rule as Dan proposes it, although it should probably read only one franchise player per decade, so that Mark's scenario would still be a possibility too.
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    the rule for franchise players should read 10M. not sure where I put 12M in but i'll find it and fix it. also yes you can change your franchise player in a decade. I think I would lean toward an qualifier though:
    You did have it at 10M, Rich. It was someone else's post that mentioned the 12M franchise player salary.
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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmadachik View Post
    To Clarify the P2PKL franchise player rule (which varies slightly from the CKL rule i believe):
    You can only have one active franchise player who's rookie season is in a given decade. so each team may have one active fanchise player who's first season was in the 1900's, one franchise player who's rookie season was in the 1910's and so on. The decade that the players franchise status is assigned to is the decade he began playing - not the year he is assigned the franchise role.

    To clarify the P2PKL free agent auction - we will not do a 'Live' final phase. It will be replaced with a blind auction where every owner will submit a blind bid on the players they want who are remaining. highest bid once all bids are in gets the player. the 250k 500k, and 1M phases of free agency will run exactly the way they run in ckl
    Quote Originally Posted by rmadachik View Post
    the rule for franchise players should read 10M. not sure where I put 12M in but i'll find it and fix it. also yes you can change your franchise player in a decade. I think I would lean toward an qualifier though:

    Any player drafted can be named a franchise player as long as the team doen not have a designated franchise player already on his roster at the beginning of the season that the player is drafted.

    for example .... You have a player designated as your franchise player and you end up with the first pick in the draft. you draft a player that you want to replace your current keeper. you would have to trade that player prior to opening day or release him before free agency for the player you drafted to be eligible as your keeper.

    I hope that's not too complicated.
    Does this second post override the previous one? Or are they both in effect? If I get a rookie in 1902 and Franchise him in 1906, can I pick a rookie in 1910 and Franchise him? Or can I only do it with a player from the next decade?

    I wonder how often teams will have players who are significantly better than their franchise player...
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  22. #97
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    Just a quick question Rich. How many rules are still under discussion? It appears that the Franchise Player rule is still having quite a bit of discussion going on. Just wondering if any other rules are still actually under discussion. If so, I would make the following suggestions. If not, just disregard this post.

    A couple of suggestions: (suggested changes in bold italics and parentheses)

    Section 2.B.
    After all player raises/nontenders/signings (See # 3 ), each owner will pick a 25 man active roster (each team shall have a 35 man roster: 25 active players and 10 inactive players (farmhands)). Owners shall submit lineups, depth charts, pitching rotations, bullpen roles and managerial profiles to the league commissioner. Players on the team but not on the active roster will be assigned to the “farm”. Once the season has started, it shall be permissible for a team to have more than or less than 35 men on their roster. This situation could result from a 1 for 2 trade; adding an additional player(s), etc.
    I'd prefer the following. I'd welcome anyone else's input. I'd just hate to win my division and then lose in shorter than 7 game playoff to go to the championship series.
    Section 2.E.
    E. PLAYOFFS
    At the end of the regular season, the division winners will play the 2nd place division team in a 5 game playoff series (7 game playoff series), with the winners then playing the each other for the championship. Home field will go to the team with the best record.
    Couple of suggestions here. The first one is easy, since the rookie draft is a draft and no bidding takes place. The others might generate some discussion.
    Section 3.C.2.
    C. ROOKIE DRAFT
    1. The date, time and procedure for bidding (eliminate the "for bidding" part) for the rookie draft shall be set by the commissioner in a post to the offseason thread.
    2. Players who debuted in the real major leagues in the upcoming replay season will be drafted through a Rookie Draft. Only players who made their first major league appearance in the coming season are eligible for the Rookie Draft. The order of the first round of the draft will be set by a lottery of the 2 worst teams in each division (of the four teams with worst overall records). The worst record in each division will get 10 tickets, and the 2nd worst team in each division will receive 4 tickets.(The worst record will get 12 tickets; second worst 7 tickets; third worst 4 tickets and fourth worst 2 tickets - had to add this if the other is changed; otherwise no change in original)
    Just missing a section 4 here; I don't know if you're holding it for something. Looks like it, since it appears to have been removed.
    FREE AGENT AUCTION
    1) PFA and secondary auctions combined
    2) No minmium years on contracts
    3) All free agents will be eligible to be signed for up to 5 years.
    4)
    5) Preliminary bidding runs for 48 hours with 250k bid increments; then
    a) first official list of bids is posted - if not topped (still 250K) within 24 hours those players are signed
    b) New free agent list is posted - if not topped at increments of 500K those players are signed
    c) New free agent list is posted - if not topped in 24 hours at increments of 1M those players are signed
    d) Blind Bid on all remaining players. Each owner submits a list of bids for players still active in the auction. Tge highest bid gets the player. in the case of a tie during blind bidding the winner will be the owner who had the worse record the previous season.
    Just a little cleaning up here:
    5. FRANCHISE PLAYERS
    Each team may designate one player as a Franchise Player per decade (1901 to 1909; 1910 to 1919; 1920 to 1929; 1930 to 2039(1939) etc). Rules concerning Franchise Players are:
    A. The player must be one that was originally drafted as a rookie and retained by the designating team.
    B. The designation of Franchise Player shall be made after the player’s fourth season. Once the Franchise Player designation is given a player, he is automatically signed at 10M per year indefinately.
    D. The Franchise Player remains with the designating team for as long as the team owner desires, at the 10M per year salary.
    E. Any player drafted can be named a franchise player as long as the team doen (does) not have a designated franchise player already on his roster at the beginning of the season that the player is drafted. (This whole section five is a bit confusing and maybe should be discussed or clarified. Sounds like you could draft a guy and immediately designate him as the FP.)
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  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by leecemark View Post
    --I prefer Dan's suggestion of having to drop the previous franchise player before actually giving the designation to another player. I assume you could still have 2 or even three franchise players at once if they were drafted in different decades though? Say you are rebuilding and get one in 1909, then another in 1910 and they are both still active when you land a third worthy player in 1920.
    I agree. I will put it in the league rules as written.
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  24. #99
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    I'd actually prefer only having one franchise player at a time to having several over different decades. If you can get a franchise player in 1909 and then another in 1910, it makes it vastly preferable to time your rebuilds at the end of each decade, which is unrealistic in addition to being a bit of a loophole. It's also much simpler to just say you can only have one at a time and to change tags you have to release the first one (and you can only change tags in the first phase of the offseason).

    Another thing I'd suggest would be making anyone on a rookie contract eligible to be franchised. So you could trade for a player and then franchise them. That would provide for more interesting trade scenarios.

    My ideal franchise player rule would look like this:

    - Starting in 1902, any player on a rookie contract can be declared a Franchise Player by the team owning their rights at the beginning of the offseason.
    - Franchise Players will have a static contract of $10,000,000 for as long as the team desires to keep them at that price.
    - If the designation is removed (must be done at the beginning of the offseason), the player becomes a free agent.
    - A team may only have one Franchise Player at a time. To change the player designated, the current Franchise Player must be released immediately.
    - A player cannot be designated as a Franchise Player at any time after their fifth season in the league unless they were ineligible to receive the designation previously (i.e., if the team owning their rights had another Franchise Player).
    - Franchise Players cannot be traded.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by catcher24 View Post
    You did have it at 10M, Rich. It was someone else's post that mentioned the 12M franchise player salary.
    I probably was the one that introduced the $12M amount as I am trying to learn the CKL rules at the same time. Sorry.
    Dan
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