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Thread: 1901 Off Season Thread

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by buppers View Post
    What we are saying is when several players are equally ranked then we will almost always take the position player. If you look over some CKL drafts you will see pitchers taken above position players early in the draft. The coming CKL draft should see Fernando go fast - probably before I pick at #4.
    If they're really equally valuable, why does it matter which you take first?

    Also, maybe that's what people mean, but that's not what they say. When someone says they can't justify taking a pitcher with the first pick (no matter how good), that means if Walter Johnson had his rookie season in 1901, you wouldn't even consider taking him.

    (I'm not picking on you catcher24. I've heard a LOT of people say the same thing)

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    If they're really equally valuable, why does it matter which you take first?

    Also, maybe that's what people mean, but that's not what they say. When someone says they can't justify taking a pitcher with the first pick (no matter how good), that means if Walter Johnson had his rookie season in 1901, you wouldn't even consider taking him.

    (I'm not picking on you catcher24. I've heard a LOT of people say the same thing)
    I don't consider a pitcher equally valuable at all. I prefer someone who will play 150+ games instead of 40+.

  3. #63
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    So then will you take your entire starting lineup before you take your first SP? Because that's what you just said.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    So then will you take your entire starting lineup before you take your first SP? Because that's what you just said.
    everyone has their own method of rating player's worth. If you place more emphasis on a top end starter than others then that's great for you especialy if they are drafting ahead of you. We make a point of not being too openly critical of other owners strategies here. The gentswho you are in disagrement with have been huge winners in the CKL league for a reason.
    Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmadachik View Post
    everyone has their own method of rating player's worth. If you place more emphasis on a top end starter than others then that's great for you especialy if they are drafting ahead of you. We make a point of not being too openly critical of other owners strategies here. The gentswho you are in disagrement with have been huge winners in the CKL league for a reason.
    I'm not even discussing their strategy - not really. I'm saying that their statements don't line up with their actions. It's not really a big deal though.

  6. #66
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    Personally I have been baxk and forth on this thought process. Having run a club that was heavy on hitting and weak on pitching I can say I never want to go through that type of season again (also growing up in cleveland and witnessing the Indians of the 90's assemble rag tag rotations year after year),

    Christy Matthewson, regardless of the fact that he is my favorite player of all time, to me would be the first pick . . . the only downside is that since you only get 8 years max you miss out on a lot of great pitching from him. Wagners glove is solid most of his career at a position of relative weakness in the 1900's, as is Lajoie's and both are terrors with the bat. I agree they are the top three with some very great players just behind them.

    I would say that I am glad I don't have to make that decision you do Lew ... but I'd be lying.
    Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    So then will you take your entire starting lineup before you take your first SP? Because that's what you just said.
    Actually, thats not what he said. He said he "prefers" someone who plays 150+ games over someone who plays 40+. When his turn comes up he will take his player rankings and pick the player that he thinks will help his team the most. You or I, with the same team may take another player with that pick. I may be playing for current season while someone else may be building for the future. So if someone ranks players different than you do you have a better chance of getting the player you want. So if you think someone is ranking players wrong you should sit back and take advantage. Who knows, you could end up with 8 HOF caliber pitchers and lose 100 games 2 - 1.
    There are 10 kinds of people. Those who get binary and those who don't.

  8. #68
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    ???

    1901 is Mathewson's first full season. You basically get his entire career.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    ???

    1901 is Mathewson's first full season. You basically get his entire career.
    The initial draft of 1901 players has contract length restrictions. They are posted in the rules thread
    Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird_1981 View Post
    I don't consider a pitcher equally valuable at all. I prefer someone who will play 150+ games instead of 40+.
    Quote Originally Posted by buppers View Post
    Actually, thats not what he said. He said he "prefers" someone who plays 150+ games over someone who plays 40+. When his turn comes up he will take his player rankings and pick the player that he thinks will help his team the most. You or I, with the same team may take another player with that pick. I may be playing for current season while someone else may be building for the future. So if someone ranks players different than you do you have a better chance of getting the player you want. So if you think someone is ranking players wrong you should sit back and take advantage. Who knows, you could end up with 8 HOF caliber pitchers and lose 100 games 2 - 1.
    He said he doesn't consider them equally valuable at all because someone who plays 150+ games is worth more.

    In reality he's probably not going to pick like that, but that's what he said.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmadachik View Post
    The initial draft of 1901 players has contract length restrictions. They are posted in the rules thread
    Oh, okay. I thought you were saying you only get 8 years from him compared to more years from other people.

  12. #72
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    tell you what lew ... i'm willing to swap you your number 1 pick for my spot in the stadium draft at #4 .... and a future 4th rounder
    Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah

  13. #73
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    nah .... just would be a shame to have him for 8 years and then watch someone else enjoy that awesome 1909 season. It will be very interesting to see how teams aproach the first 2 or 3 rounds of this draft.
    Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade8813 View Post
    So then will you take your entire starting lineup before you take your first SP? Because that's what you just said.
    No it isn't at all. When I draft I take whatever player I deem will help my team the most but if I have two players rated fairly even I will take the position player.
    Last edited by jaybird_1981; 02-12-2012 at 09:55 AM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by buppers View Post
    What we are saying is when several players are equally ranked then we will almost always take the position player. If you look over some CKL drafts you will see pitchers taken above position players early in the draft. The coming CKL draft should see Fernando go fast - probably before I pick at #4.
    Ed, you can bet your life on it my friend without worry. I lucked into the #2 pick, and there's only one guy I would take over Fernando.

    Regarding Wade's post, you're kind of mixing apples and oranges. If it wasn't for the fact that this is a league formation draft and not a rookie draft, and that there are two everyday players available who many still consider the best ever at their respective positions even though they played over 100 years ago, Mathewson would be an easy top pick. We have had a several rookie drafts in the CKL where the top player taken was a pitcher. It just depends on who else is available. With Wagner (frequently included in all time top 10 player lists) and Lajoie available for everyday play, they just nudge out Mathewson - and not by much, either. It's almost a coin flip.

    If Walter Johnson was available as a rookie in 1901, I WOULD make him the top pick, even over Wagner and Lajoie. That's how highly I think of Walter. I guarantee you now, without looking at who else is even a rookie that year, that in 1907 Walter Johnson will go #1.
    Last edited by catcher24; 02-12-2012 at 01:00 PM.
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmadachik View Post
    The initial draft of 1901 players has contract length restrictions. They are posted in the rules thread
    That brings up a good question. Will we be able to make them our Franchise Player? Actually, that's how the FP originally came into being. When the CKL formed, the first guy we picked in that draft we got to keep for the original 12M salary for as long as we wanted to keep them. I kept Ron Santo for a dozen seasons at 12M, then dropped him and resigned him as FA at a much lower salary to still let him retire as Legend.
    Or will we be able to use the Restricted Free Agent rule when their initial contract is up? It would be good to know that before the draft starts.

    I would like to see the option available to designate our first pick in the formation draft a 15M Franchise Player, as we did in the CKL. Barring that, I think they should at least qualify for RFA. One of the two options should be available, IMHO.
    Last edited by catcher24; 02-12-2012 at 01:11 PM.
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmadachik View Post
    tell you what lew ... i'm willing to swap you your number 1 pick for my spot in the stadium draft at #4 .... and a future 4th rounder
    Soooooo close Rich. If you had just offered a future third instead of a fourth it could have been yours!
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by catcher24 View Post
    Ed, you can bet your life on it my friend without worry. I lucked into the #2 pick, and there's only one guy I would take over Fernando.
    So you have #2 in 1980 (me 4th) and #1 in 1901 (me 2nd). Congrats !
    There are 10 kinds of people. Those who get binary and those who don't.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird_1981 View Post
    No it isn't at all. When I draft I take whatever player I deem will help my team the most but if I have two players rated fairly even I will take the position player.
    That's fine. It's not what you said though.

    Quote Originally Posted by catcher24 View Post
    Regarding Wade's post, you're kind of mixing apples and oranges. If it wasn't for the fact that this is a league formation draft and not a rookie draft, and that there are two everyday players available who many still consider the best ever at their respective positions even though they played over 100 years ago, Mathewson would be an easy top pick. We have had a several rookie drafts in the CKL where the top player taken was a pitcher. It just depends on who else is available. With Wagner (frequently included in all time top 10 player lists) and Lajoie available for everyday play, they just nudge out Mathewson - and not by much, either. It's almost a coin flip.

    If Walter Johnson was available as a rookie in 1901, I WOULD make him the top pick, even over Wagner and Lajoie. That's how highly I think of Walter. I guarantee you now, without looking at who else is even a rookie that year, that in 1907 Walter Johnson will go #1.
    That's not me mixing things up - that was my entire point.

    People say "I can't justify taking a pitcher with the #1 pick no matter how good he is", but if the pitcher was as good as Walter Johnson, you would take him.

  20. #80
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    If I have a really high pick and value a pitcher and a hitter close to evenly, I'll generally take the scarcer commodity (so see if you can figure out who's going #1 in the 1980 draft). In this one, though, there's a clear best pick and pitcher/position player shouldn't really factor into it.

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