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Thread: Al Stump: The Felon, The Fraud, and The Man Who Created The Ty Cobb Myth

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanks0714 View Post
    While much of Stump's 'stories' may be exaggersated or out and out lies, let's remember that Cobb had a certain reputation BEFORE Stump ever wrote that book. I can remember reading things about Ty Cobb back in the 1950's that were not particularly of a positive note.

    As I read through this thread I get an impression that we are trying to paint Cobb in a new light, as if he was a fine, I have no doubt that many of the historical 'facts' surrounding Cobb's demeanor are exaggerated but there lies some aspect of pathos to his life as well.
    Let's not try to make him something he wasn't

    I wasn't around in the 50's but I would guess any bad story's you heard about Cobb before 1961 were about his sharpening of his spike's or fighting. I wouldn't think the killing another man story or the Ted Williams stories were ever made light of until Al Stump came along.

    Like the article said if Stump could lie and steal about Cobb memoribilia to make money why wouldn't he lie about his life to make money.

    I think everyone know's Cobb wasn't a saint but he wasn't a murderer or drug addict which Stump claim's either. With respect to Stump supposivly Cobb told him he killed a man so it would be hard not to print something like that but a real journalist woulda researched this or got more information from Cobb.

    What I get out of Stump is he didn't care too much for Cobb and even that article says they really didnt spend too much time toghther. I would think thats because Stump was a cocky succesful writer who wrote what he knew would sell and could care less about Cobb. I think Cobb probaly wanted a friend and Stump just used him.

    Cobbs doctor in 1961 even said Stump was wrong. He was closer to Cobb from what it sound's like.

    I'm not saying i'm right but I get a bad feeling from Al Stump. Cobb may have been a tough gruff kinda guy but he had a heart which is pretty clear by the fact he would help out old ballplayers and thier wives. Stump seem's like the type who would tell someone in need to go to hell.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

  2. #27

    The Original Stump Article from "True" Magazine (December, 1961)

    Link:
    Ty Cobb's Wild Ten Month Fight To Live

    Now I really wonder how much of this was conjured by Stump for the purposes of sensationalism....self-promotion.... profit.....and (perhaps also) character assassination....

    Ironic that it was published in "True" magazine.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by CandlestickBum View Post
    Will ask my pa if he has more details next time we speak.
    I assume this is Spencer Lane in Atherton. Gorgeous neighborhood, but def. designed for the privacy of the wealthy and/or famous.

  4. #29
    Speaking of what Ty Cobb was ACTUALLY like, in person, to my knowledge, this member is the only person here who claims to have actually met Cobb in person, beyond an autograph. Here's what he posted in response to a few queries from other members.

    "deadball-era-rules" - 05-12-2009 07:18 PM


    Hi rkoch. I saw that you had said you talked to quite a few notable old time ballplayers years ago. You specifically mentioned Ty Cobb. He's my favorite player, and since I'm 22 years old I haven't ever had the opportunity to talk to anyone who has ever met him personally. Could you just share with me what the experience was like, and what you thought of him? I don't know how well you knew him, but anything that you can tell me would be would be greatly appreciated.


    "rkoch" - 09-19-2009 09:34 PM

    Sorry this took so long. When I first met Cobb was in the Riverside Hotel and approached him using the guise, that while Id never seen him play but recalled players he had on the Tigers team,like John Bassler, Fred Haney,Larry Woodall and others when I was a kid.He remembered them all and we had a drink or two together. This was in 1953 and I was 31ears old he must have been in his late sixties. You must bear in mind this was well before Al Stumph did that "fairy tale" hit piece. I found him very easy to talk to. At the time, I was a sound technician in motion picture theatres and he asked me what I did I told him I was installing some Dutch equipment[Phillips] that was their entry into the us Market. He knew all about the company, told me what a large conglomorate it was, and further that he had stock in it. I was impressed about his knowledge and intelligence on subjects other than baseball. I saw him within the next few months,same place Riverside Bar and he remembered me and was interested how my installation had gone. Bought me a drink and thats the last time I saw him.In no way was he like the character Al Stumph wrote about. I completely enjoyed my times with him. He was immaculately dressed and was not intoxicated. He may have been married to his second wife at the time but I can`t know. Anyway my memories of him are all pleasant, but remember this was 56 years ago. Anyway to me he`ll always be "a hell of a guy".

  5. #30
    I wonder why the heck Bill Burgess isn't interpolating here......he spent about 10 years of his life researching Ty Cobb.

    Speaking of which, as far as Cobb pistol-whipping the mugger to death off Trumbull Avenue story goes.... it's an incredibly dramatic and horribly lurid story....but almost certainly just another fabrication spat out for publicity by Stump.

    http://baseballguru.com/bburgess/ana...burgess01.html

  6. #31
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    Al stump was ahead of his time. He hyperbolically trashed a celebrity for financial gain. If he were alive today, he'd probably write for the National Enquirer..

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by yanks0714 View Post
    Let's not try to make him something he wasn't
    Nobody here needs to try to make Cobb out to be something he wasn't....however, Stump did a pretty phenomenal job at that years ago. Bill James said it best in his analysis, when he wrote with respect to the exaggerations and fabrications about Cobb which gained tremendous clout and absolute credibility over time, that "the bell cannot be unrung".

    I agree; we should *not* try to make him out to be something he wasn't. And to a certain extent, we don't need to. Burgess has done the homework for us. For starters, he provided a litany of direct quotes from Cobb's teammates, along with a compendium of interviews and primary source information from with those who knew him best.

    For the record, I think James' lay psychoanalysis of Cobb in his latest Abstract is probably quite valid, and it seems evenhanded as well. Cobb did some horrendous things and could be (way) beyond ornery, but he also exhibited extreme gratuity, kindness, courtesy, and a very amicable general persona. Cobb was a very troubled and complex man. I think, to an extent, he never "came to grips" with the murder. I wonder what his mother told him, and what he found out for himself from people in town who knew bits and pieces of the truth. Absent that heinous crime, though, the unparalleled rage and equally unparalleled drive probably wouldn't have been there, and we wouldn't be here, engaged in a a palaver 100 years later on an internet forum.
    Last edited by csh19792001; 03-08-2012 at 10:20 PM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    I assume this is Spencer Lane in Atherton. Gorgeous neighborhood, but def. designed for the privacy of the wealthy and/or famous.
    The tobacco shop where he played cards was not on the same street as where he lived, no. Not many businesses to be found at all in Atherton actually. Kind of a strange town in that regards, almost 100% residential, nothing, nothing but beautiful homes.


    Not even the same town. Just a few miles north, in Redwood City was his card club.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
    Cobb may have been a tough gruff kinda guy but he had a heart which is pretty clear by the fact he would help out old ballplayers and thier wives.
    You had to be tough back then. It was a lot different than now. People didn't **** around. Hell, you could still get yourself into a duel.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by yanks0714 View Post
    While much of Stump's 'stories' may be exaggersated or out and out lies, let's remember that Cobb had a certain reputation BEFORE Stump ever wrote that book. I can remember reading things about Ty Cobb back in the 1950's that were not particularly of a positive note.

    As I read through this thread I get an impression that we are trying to paint Cobb in a new light, as if he was a fine, I have no doubt that many of the historical 'facts' surrounding Cobb's demeanor are exaggerated but there lies some aspect of pathos to his life as well.
    Let's not try to make him something he wasn't
    Like Al Stump did?
    Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
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    Robin JEDI

  11. #36
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    I read the story about Stump and the shotgun a year or two ago.

    1. I was raised on the story that Cobb's mother had blown her husband's head off with a shotgun, mistaking him for an intruder.
    2. Wesley Fricks informed me he had information that it was a pistol, and the house didn't have a second story. She fired through a living room glass window.
    3. William R. Cobb is a friend of mine and we worked together on my project to find all the sources of Ty's supporters quotes.
    4. If Bill Cobb has the goods on Stump as a thief and criminal, I take his word for it.

    Bill has good evidence that after Ty died, Al Stump went to his Lake Tahoe hunting lodge and robbed it blind. Stump apparently told people that Ty had told him he could have a momento or two and that Stump used that to take everything that wasn't nailed down.

    Stump also apparently wrote a falsified diary and tried to pass it off as Ty's. He used Ty's green pen in his attempt to be convincing. I now take it as a proven fact that Al Stump was a liar, thief, purveyor of stolen sports memorabila. I believe he slandered Ty Cobb, libeled him, and otherwise did his best to discredit a man who had welcomed him into his home, trusted him to write facts without distortion or undue embellishment, and that Stump betrayed all these confidences and trust.

    Al Stump single-handlely set back Ty Cobb's good name and reputation by a significant degree. True, Ty already had a terrible press, but Stump just threw logs of timber on the bonfire. And after Ty was gone, he robbed him blind, and tried to profit by selling Ty's memorabilia on the sports market under false advertising. That's fraud anyway you look at it.

    I wish to be on record as outing the unethical Mr. Stump.

  12. #37
    And the fact that Cobb had genuine character flaws is no reason to suddenly develop this fear that exposing Stump's fraud "turns Cobb into something he was not." The larger issue is whether Stump's deceptions helped damage Cobb's proper place in baseball history as one of the greatest players ever. By all rights, Cobb should be viewed with the same level of legend as Ruth, Mays, Mantle etc. yet its because of the mythology of Cobb's persona that it was no longer proper to accord him that level of respect. Cobb's hometown painted over the billboard that once proclaimed it as his birthplace and which showed a classic image of Cobb in action. That was more due to the myth that surrounded Cobb after he was dead than anything he had done while he was alive.

    Cobb's human failures should be acknowledged in assessing his life just as we also do so with Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle. But those human failings should not be the first thing we talk about when assessing Cobb's place in baseball history and unfortunately it's because of the Stump mythology that we have become conditioned to do when it comes to Cobb.

  13. #38
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    I liked both Al Stump's books on Ty Cobb. In the 1961 autobiography, Doubleday had given Ty final approval, so it only had what Ty wanted it to have. The manuscript was at the printer's 2 weeks before Ty died. They rushed it through to the stores to take advantage of Ty's death. It appeared in magazine's ads in September, 1961. I was one of the first to order it.

    The second 1995 book wasn't as bad as Ty's fans like to make it out to be. It was the movie that was based on it that stunk. The book was alright. It had some things that stuck in my mind as pretty extreme and harsh, and I want to show them here, now. Two show Al Stump's attitude towards Ty. Here they are.

    "During the long stretches of time we spent together, my feelings for Ty Cobb were often in flux. My respect for his greatness, my contempt for his vile temper and mistreatment of others, my pity for his deteriorating health, and my admiration for his stubbornness and persistence produced a frustrating mix of emotions. With so much material left over, there was need for another manuscript, but it wasn't until three decades later that I finally felt compelled to put the real Ty Cobb to rest." (Cobb, by Al Stump, 1995, Preface, xvii.)

    "[Paul] Gallico, a longtime sports editor at the New York Daily News who closely studied Cobb in his late career, felt that Cobb's weird conduct, both on and off the field, could have been signs of significant mental illness." (Cobb, by Al Stump, 1995, Preface, xvi.)

    Those two examples give the reader an insight into Stump's mindset.

    The book also gives 2 extreme examples of Ty's behavior. Tough stuff, but still fair, if true. Here they are.

    "Here's a typical story about him. One day a Yankee rookie pitcher threw a beanball at Cobb and it nicked his ear. Big Ty didn't say a thing then, but next time up he drag-bunted down the first-base line. The pitcher went to handle the bunt, and the next thing he knew he was flying through the air, halfway knocked out. Cobb's spikes had actually cut the pants and part of the shirt right off him. The man was left bloody, ragged, and permanently scarred." (Cobb, by Al Stump, 1995, Foreward, xiv.)

    (Talking about Ty, Jr.) "The redheaded eldest son had been raised by his mother and private-school teachers. "I blame her for the way the kid behaved," Cobb flared in conversation with his close friend Elmer Griffin. The girl-chasing Ty juior had been in one scrape after another while enrolled at Richmond Academy in Augusta, then at Princeton University. He drew traffic tickets for speeding , dated fast girls, and missed classes. Showing no baseball ability, Ty junior wound up as a member of the Princeton varsity tennis team. The senior Cobb, thinking tennis to be a pitty-pat sport for the white-flannels set, winced. "Here's a boy who has grown up privileged to visit big-league clubhouses and training camps," he told Griffin. "But he would rather watch Bill Tilden then see his father win games." (Tilden, U.S. tennis king in the 1920s, was a known homosexual.) Paternal bitterness ran deep.

    In the late spring of 1929, receiving word that Ty junior had flunked out of Princeton, Cobb had caught a train to the New Jersey campus and called at his son's lodging house. He carried a black satchel. He removed from the satchel a blacksnake whip "and then I went to work on that boy pretty hard," he told this writer. "I put him on the floor and kept it up . . . tears and some blood were shed . . . but Tyrus never again . . . never . . . failed in his grades."

    Cobb never thought of the act as repulsive. When he mentioned the horsewhipping to the few people of his inner circle he did so with an air of satisfaction.
    He said, "You can look at it two ways. Teaching Ty a lesson hurt both of us. On the other hand, it did some good. . . he grew up in a hell of a hurry. In the end he made something of himself."

    That was true--for a while. Since Princeton no longer wanted him as an undergraduate, Ty junior entered Yale University. He improved academically and became captain of Yale's tennis team, a star singles player. However, in 1930 he was arrested for drunkenness on two occasions and failed to graduate with a degree. Cobb provided lawyers to handle the police charges, then informed the twenty-year old that there would be no further communications between them. Cobb senior was finished with Cobb junior. This was not just a threat. An unbending father meant it, to the extent that they remained alienated until near Junior's death at the age of forty-two, in 1952, of a malignant brain tumor. It was all very sad, Griffin reported. "Ty paid for the young man's sickness and death," said Griffin. "But that was all."

    The above stories are extreme, excessive, harsh and maybe brutal, even if true. Why one's biographer would decide to include that shows his attitude towards his subject.

    I do not fault Al Stump for including brutally true events in Ty Cobb's life. It was his robbing him and defrauding the sports memorabilia buyers that crosses the line.

    Al Stump might have been a good sports writer, but he was a lousy man. And a criminal one at that.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 05-10-2013 at 06:10 PM.

  14. #39
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    bill burgess is the ultimate Cobb authority now that Stump is dead


    i say we listen to him

  15. #40
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    Thanks, Blackout, my old buddy. But modesty and truth must prevail. Wesley Fricks is the leading Ty Cobb authority of our times. He is arguably the most knowledgable Ty Cobb historian, researcher and advocate living today.

    Richard Bak and Mark Okkenon are two other leading Ty researchers. I will take a bow as the leading Ty man in the house. I think I've earned that much. But Wesley did visit us briefly and posted with great authority. If anyone is interested, I can dig out his posts. Only about 3 or 4 posts.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 03-09-2012 at 03:21 PM.

  16. #41
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    I saw 1 post he did. Is there any way you can dig em up? I'd like to see em. The post I saw from him was from 2006. He had a interesting post from what I remember.
    Last edited by chicagowhitesox1173; 03-09-2012 at 05:03 PM.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

  17. #42
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    TY COBB Was Not A Racist!

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TY COBB's INFLUENCE ON BLACKS.


    February 19, 2006

    Dear Friends:

    As I have recognized a need to present facts about Ty's relationships with blacks, I have enclosed some material that advocates TY COBB’s support for blacks and other minorities. This is to provide facts supporting the reality that the negative publicity came after TY COBB died in 1961. I also enclosed several articles, but interestingly, one that I found where his son, Jim Cobb, made the exact same assessment in 1977.

    My friends, if you were to research the facts, you’ll find that Mr. Cobb was different than he is portrayed in the eye of the modern public. He was rich with popularity and writers could always count on his name to generate interest in their newspaper. Mr. Cobb was a charitable natured man who actually was soft for the minority, whether the minority was someone who had different colored skin, or handicapped, or someone who was less fortunate, or even someone who was small in size. He would always tell the little fellow who was standing in the back and could not get close to come to the front. He wanted to make sure they got a chance, too.

    In the late 1920’s, TY COBB leased a hunting preserve with over 12,000 acres in MaGruder, Georgia, and built a house on it for a black man, named Uncle Bob Robinson, and his family to live there. In place of the rent, they would make sure no intruders trespassed on the property. Anytime Cobb and his friends were hunting on the land, this fellow, by his own choice, would always hunt along beside COBB. At times, he would entertain the guest with his story telling.

    After a long day of hunting, they would gather around a campfire and talk baseball, or whatever came to mind. On this particular day, COBB had bagged twelve birds and had not missed a one (Mr. Cobb was a crack shot). Mr. Robinson told the story to Tris Speaker and the others, “Yeah, Mr. COBB had a bad day today.” What do you mean, Cobb bagged twelve birds and didn’t miss,” said Speaker. “Yeah, but he near ‘bout missed one,” recounted Mr. Robinson.

    Present day authors have distorted COBB’s reputation to a point of the ridiculous. For example, in the book “COBB” that the movie “COBB” was based on tried to show that COBB hosted orgies and drinking parties. I have the contract agreement on the land and it clearly states that there was to be “absolutely NO alcohol on the premises.” This was at Major League Baseball’s Brunswick, Georgia retreat. It was called “Dover Hall Club” and TY COBB was 1/16 part owner of the 2,500 acre hunting and fishing camp. The MLB magnates owned it from the early 1910s until the late 1930s. COBB was the only player of the sixteen investors who bought into the $1,000 stock-leasing plan.

    Mr. Cobb was in financial straits in the spring of 1906, but by the end of 1907 he had worked and saved his money. He began investing it in real estate in Georgia. In 1908, he bought 15 acres in Toccoa, Georgia and built and remodeled some of the nicest little homes, in a predominately black neighborhood. He named the subdivision “Booker T. Washington Heights,” and financed these homes to these residents for a minimal amount.

    He owned the property until 1940 and he turned it over to his son, Herschel Cobb, to assist him with starting him a Coca-Cola franchise in Idaho. One transaction sold a lot (#22) to J. H. Johnson for only $42.50 in 1909. It was a relatively good price even for that era. There were 109 lots in Booker T. Washington Heights.

    I hear a great deal about COBB’s racism in the present, especially on the Internet, but no one ever does or has actually have provided factual or even specifics about their racial allegations. If COBB had been a racist, some newspaperman would have made remarks about the specifics in some way. I have over 40,000 newspaper articles, and NOT one article makes any correlation to TY COBB being a racist. All the evidence demonstrate COBB’s support for the advancement of colored people, and yet, there is NO evidence that give any indication that Mr. COBB made any movement toward oppressing the black population.

    Contrary, when Jackie Robinson entered into the Major Leagues, it began a slow process of allowing blacks to began entering into every league in the country. When the Dallas club of the Texas League was considering allowing blacks to enter, COBB was there to bat for them.

    Ty Cobb, Fiery Diamond Star, Favors Negroes In Baseball
    Independent Journal - January 29th, 1952

    MENLO PARK (AP) Tyrus Raymond Cobb, fiery old time star of the diamond, stepped up to the plate today to clout a verbal home run in favor of Negroes in baseball.
    Himself a native of the Deep South, Cobb voiced approval of the recent decision of the Dallas club to use Negro players if they came up to Texas league caliber.
    The old Georgia Peach of Detroit Tigers fame was a fighter from the word go during his brilliant playing career. He neither asked for nor gave quarter in 24 tumultuous years in the American League. Time has mellowed the one time firebrand and he views the sport in the pleasant role of a country squire. He spoke emphatically on the subject of Negroes in baseball, however.
    "Certainly it is O.K. for them to play," he said, "I see no reason in the world why we shouldn't compete with colored athletes as long as they conduct themselves with politeness and gentility. Let me say also that no white man has the right to be less of a gentleman than a colored man, in my book that goes not only for baseball but in all walks of life.”
    "I like them, (Negro race) personally. When I was little I had a colored mammy. I played with colored children."
    Referring again to last week's developments in the Texas league, Cobb declared, "It was bound to come." He meant the breaking down of Baseball's racial barriers in the old south.
    Cobb expressed the belief Negroes eventually would be playing in every league in the country. He concluded with: "Why not, as long as they deport themselves like gentlemen?"

    TY COBB did have an altercation with at least four African-Americans during his lifetime, but I have all the documents from these incidents, and in every case, the problem can be traced back to an action, not related to racism, that was committed by COBB himself, the black person, or a third party, that cause the issue to escalate into an altercation. I am not going to discourse tediously on who was at fault in either of the incidents because I only want to exhibit that there was a reason that the incidents happened that had nothing to do with color. And I must mention that COBB’s incidents with whites far exceed the number of occurrences with the blacks.

    TY COBB was not a racist, he did not sharpen his spikes to slash other players just to steal a base, he did not kill a man in Detroit as alleged by recent nickel writers, and he did not live the life of a bigot. Contrary to those myths, TY COBB exerted a kindness toward blacks. One of his fondest memories of his youth was being taught how to swim by a black laborer named, Uncle Ezra. Ezra would get young TY to cling to his neck and wade out into the middle of the river or stream. At this point, TY would be released and forced to swim back to the riverbank.

    Blacks lived in COBB’s house behind his home on Williams Street there in Augusta. COBB employed blacks the whole time he lived on the “Hill”. Emaline Cosey lived with and worked for TY COBB in 1920.

    Jimmy Lanier grew up in Augusta with one of TY COBB’s sons. Jimmy has told a story many times about him and Herschel going to the Rialto Theater in downtown Augusta to see one of them shoot’em up movies. “We came out of the theater and Mr. Cobb, like a father, was waiting on the other side of the road,” claimed Lanier. “As we were getting into the car, Mr. Cobb overheard the owner of a nearby restaurant explaining to a man dressed in shabby clothes how to get to the Linwood Hospital – a veterans hospital. Mr. Cobb interrupts and says, ‘Son, I’ll take you there.’

    “The man stood on the running board of Mr. Cobb’s La Salle coupe, and they were talking back and forth, and this man was a veteran of World War I. When they pulled up to the gate at the Linwood Hospital, I saw Mr. Cobb hand this man a $20 bill. Herschel was looking off at somewhere else, but I saw what Mr. Cobb done. It was incidents like this that never made it to the press,” concluded Lanier.

    Friends, I believe that one of Mr. Cobb’s problems was that he never looked for credit for anything that he done. He could never boast of his philanthropic nature that would put celebrities like Babe Ruth or Joe DiMaggio riding on the crest of publicity. And two, he never refuted accusation against him publicly. If someone alleged that he had spiked another player intentionally, he gave an explanation only to the person or people that it mattered to most, like owner of the Tigers or President of the American League, but very seldom to the press. If he would have stood up and said to people, “You are wrong” or “That is not true,” maybe these present day authors would have had less room to reinvent his reputation to their own liking.

    TY COBB was a close associate to the 2nd Commissioner of baseball, Albert B. “Happy” Chandler, who was head of the baseball realm when Jackie Robinson entered into Major League baseball. COBB was a big supporter of Chandler. In a press interview on August th, 1950, COBB shared his support for Chandler, “So far, Chandler has lived up to everything that I thought he could do as a commissioner. To me, every one of his decisions have been fair.” The article goes on explaining COBB’s support for “Happy.” Three years later, he was elected to serve as member of the Board of Trustees of the COBB Educational Foundation.

    The Foundation contributed $2,800.00 in scholarships the first year. Fifty years later the annual grants have reached well over a $500,000 dollars. As of July, 2003, the Foundation has provided scholarships to 6,876 students, equaling $9,743,000. dollars.

    Thanks to his charitable nature, Ty Cobb has made it possible for thousands of students of Georgia to achieve a higher mark in education. There is no limit to what this Foundation can provide to future students who truly want an education. One thing is certain; it is bound to generate a winning team of students in this great state of Georgia.

    And as I mention frequently, I could go on forever talking about great things that Mr. COBB did to enrich the lives of other people. He did this without any expectations from the recipient or others who witnessed his philanthropic deeds. In an interview in the mid 1950s, Mr. COBB made this statement, “You’ve ask me about this Cobb Educational Fund, and now I’m going to have to answer it. I do not wish to be eulogized for what I have done. I’m proud of it, yes. This Educational Fund has given me the greatest possible happiness and pleasure, and maybe when I’m gone we’ll have some real great men developed out of the Cobb Educational Foundation.”

    The TY COBB Healthcare Systems, Inc provide jobs to thousands of healthcare professionals in northeast Georgia, and I know personally, and young black fellow that I went to school with who works for the healthcare system and has made a huge impact on the community. He got his start at the COBB Memorial Hospital and now is a providing much leadership in the direction of the city.

    TY COBB’s father was a Georgia State Senator from the 31st District who voted against a bill introduced and approved by the Senate that allowed taxes deriving only from black properties to finance the black schools. This was in 1900. He stated in the Atlanta Constitution that the “Negroes had done, and were doing a good deal for the up building of the state, and I am in favor of allowing them money for education.” He believed that the race should be protected from class legislation.

    TY COBB set more records in baseball than any other player. He was the first player inducted into baseball’s Hall of Fame in 1936. He was the most celebrated athlete in baseball’s history.

    In 1950, COBB dedicated the new hospital in Royston, Georgia to provide medical attention to the region. In Dr. J. B. Gilbert, COBB found one of the finest African-American doctors to serve the black population, and this was before desegregation. Dr. Gilbert also serviced white patients and later became Chief of Staff at the COBB Memorial Hospital (See photo below). Dr. Gilbert’s daughter remembers TY COBB visiting the home when she was just a young lady. COBB signed baseballs for all three of Dr. Gilbert’s grandchildren.


    In 1953, COBB established the TY COBB Educational Foundation to give scholarships to needy students in Georgia. Hundreds and hundreds of young black students have become a beneficiary of this educational fund.

    Alexander George Washington Rivers was a black employee of COBB for 18 years and named his first-born Ty Cobb Rivers, “Even if it would have been a gal, Ah would have named her the same,” Rivers relayed to his friends in an interview with The Detroit News. Rivers served as COBB’s batboy, chauffeur, general handyman, and was an avid supporter of the famed “Georgia Peach.”

    After 22 seasons with Detroit, COBB joined the Philadelphia Athletics to finish out his twenty-four year career. Rivers followed COBB, “I wasn’t exactly against the Tigers, but I still had to be for Mr. Ty.”

    TY COBB’s racial reputation came only after he had died in 1961. Racial reform should not be fought at the expense of a man who helped make Baseball a great sport for colored people to enjoy, too.

    COBB loved Augusta! He did not just live there for a while – it was his home. He raised all of his children there. He lived at 2425 William Street in the Summerville district. He held common and preferred stock in the Augusta Chronicle. He sold Hawkeye trucks there in the Augusta area. He was president and principle owner of the TY COBB Tire Co. on Broad Street. He owned the TY COBB Beverage Co. who had their office at 313 in the Leonard Building. He was one of three principle owners in the City Bank of Thomson. He hunted and fished in all parts of the Augusta area and even down the Savannah River. He was on the Board of Directors of the First National Bank in Lavonia, Georgia for all his professional life.

    He coached and umpired some at the Richmond County YMCA and in the Nehi League. He entered his girls into beauty pageants, horse shows and musical recitals. He helped the city authorities host outside guest. When a large group of Philadelphia businessmen came to Augusta, COBB participated in a first-of-its-kind aeroplane golf tournament for the visiting spectators. COBB owned a great deal of property in the city.

    One piece of land was 444.72 acres south of Spirit Creek and the Augusta Orphan Asylum. Mr. COBB owned the properties on the east side of Tuttle, between Fenwick and Jenkins Streets; corner of Broad and Seventh (McIntosh); ten acres, five miles out on old Milledgeville Rd.; two lots on the corner of Druid Park and Gwinnett Street; southwest corner of Twiggs and Boyd’s Alley containing five lots; four lots close to the corner of Phillip Street and Walton Way; and the COBB’s property list goes on and on. Looking over the Richmond County Court documents, it appears to me that in some cases COBB loaned money to help prevent foreclosure on some of the properties.

    He lived adjacent to a dentist that started the South Atlantic League back up after it shutdown during the depression. Eugene Wilder worked as secretary to the Mayor of Augusta for many years, and was an admirer of COBB’s. When COBB entered the United States Army in 1918, he left Dr. Wilder instructions and money he had set aside for his famous prize dog, “Cobb’s Hall,” in case he failed to return from the war. COBB served as a Captain in the Chemical Warfare Division over in France at the close of the war.

    COBB also became part owner of the Augusta Tourist in 1922. The team name was later changed to Augusta Tygers to honor COBB. He developed many young athletes into strong competitors. He managed the Detroit Tigers from 1921-1926, and during that time, a Detroit batter won the batting title 4 out of 6 years. He was a great teacher, and loved to devote his time to helping others advance.

    TY COBB was always concerned about the advancement of the city of Augusta. He was always striving to promote and stimulate the city’s economy. He donated his vehicle to the fire station to be auctioned off. He owned numerous businesses in Augusta and drew people of every nature to the city. He once hosted the sole owner of the Diamond Tire Company who came down from up north. There were a couple of Presidents of the United States that COBB became acquainted with on the streets of Augusta.

    In closing, I just want to say that all these little things add up to give us plenty of reason to say that COBB deserves being memorialized with a stadium. Especially from his home city, a place that he helped to make a wonderful place to live and work. If the people of Augusta do not want COBB’s name on the Olmstead Stadium, that's up to them – I don’t live there. But I can’t sit an allow people to say such negative remarks such as “COBB was a racist” without at least trying to educate the public on the absolute truth.

    I would hope that if there is this much of an issue in naming the stadium, period, then it might be apprehended that there is a greater force that is calling us to name the facility “COBB MEMORIAL STADIUM,” or something that would commemorate the great Georgia athlete. “GEORGIA PEACH STADIUM” may be a happy medium that would satisfy both sides of the debate.

    At any rate, my position is only to educate and pass on the information that is sometimes forgotten or unknown. I hope that I have provided you with enough information that it may give you a different perspective on who TY COBB really was. I have enclosed different passages and material that you can read and see more aspects of TY COBB and his legacy. This is only a speck in the sand of the material that I possess on this great athlete. I would be happy to assist you or your colleagues in any capacity should that be your desire. I hope that you will be enlightened and receptive to this information, and I hope that it will assist everyone in the reconstruction of his or her opinion of TY COBB. I want to leave you with words straight from TY COBB’s own personality, “I like them, personally. When I was little I had a colored Mammy. I played with colored children.”

    Sincerely,
    Wesley Fricks
    TY COBB Historian

    I hope you all will address whatever Ty questions to him that I couldn't address to your satisfaction. He is also familiar with the deadball era of baseball.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wesley's Biography:

    John Wesley Fricks was born in Atlanta February 3, 1971 and moved to Royston, Georgia in 1974. He grew up on COBB St., one block away from the old COBB home place.

    He got involved on the ground floor of the creation of the TY COBB Museum in January 1998. Wesley worked six months with Museum Director and Planning and Development Committee to establish this memorial to baseball’s most celebrated athlete. He was slated to be the Keynote Speaker at the opening ceremonies on July 17th until Phil Neikro’s services was secured. It was the year Neikro was inducted into baseball’s Hall of Fame.

    He continued to work with the new Committee established, the TY COBB Advisory Committee, to continue to upgrade and enhance the material inside the Museum. Just last year, the TY COBB Educational Foundation was celebrating fifty years of giving scholarships to needy Georgia students. They were interested in getting a display in our Museum. Wesley was asked to work with a team to provide this outlet for the TCEF to get some exposure. He was asked to write a video script with only three days to get it done. He scored and scored big with his creation of the TCEF DVD video that is a wonderful addition to the Museum.

    Wesley was the keynote speaker at the Museum’s October 2003 unveiling of the TCEF display. He also designed the baseball card that was released on the same day. His contribution to the TY COBB Museum has been tireless and energetic.

    Wesley has been a pillar of strength for TY COBB’s legacy over the last decade, participating in baseball symposiums, television shows, and was even asked by Major League Baseball Productions for an interview at Turner Field in Atlanta to be on Baseball’s All-Century Team video in 1999. He was interviewed again at Turner Field in 2002 for Turner South’s Liars & Legends show that featured TY COBB.

    Wesley has continued to do follow up with people from all over the country who contact the Museum for various purposes. His professionalism and knowledge of Ty Cobb baseball during that era has made a significant impact on what we do here at the Museum.

    TY COBB Museum

    October 5, 1949, greeting Don Newcombe, Dodger P,
    before Game 1 of the 1949 World Series
    .

  18. #43
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    50 YEARS of SUBVERSION, COBB STILL ENDURES! Writers Betrayed Hall of Famer, Ruined his Legacy.

    By WESLEY FRICKS

    The TY COBB Historian

    Tampa, Fl. July 17th, 2011 – It was 50 years ago today that Ty Cobb made his final out. And for the last five decades, everyone imaginable has tried to portray him as everything except who he was - the greatest baseball player of all-time. Lest we forget, he was voted on as the first player inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame & Museum, even ahead of Babe Ruth!

    It all began in 1959, two years after Ty had returned to his native state of Georgia to live out his days as a country squire, as he called it. That is when he contacted Doubleday to help assist him in finding a suitable writer that could help him put in life story in ink. His efforts were to "set the record straight."

    Al Stump was a writer who graduated from the University of Washington who was viewed as a risky guy willing to take a chance on some new venture. Stump worked as a sportswriter for the Vancouver Columbian and the Portland Oregonian and was famous for have many "ghostly apparition hanging over his keyboard." Yes, Stump loved to drink and drink a lot!

    Stump and Cobb began work on the book titled, "My Life In Baseball – The True Record" which is now, believed my many, to be the best record of the famed Georgia Peach and his life as a master of the baseball diamond.

    However, Stump had other plans!

    Stump portrayed Cobb as a drunkard, cheater, racist, prejudice monster and a gun-wielding idiot with a temper that shot off at the motion of a wind's change and at a moments notice. An image I think reflected his own persona.

    He was setting his sites on a fortune that he thought he could make by double crossing Cobb after his death. The double crossing came easy for the beguiling Stump, but his grand payday never turned up.

    Stump made up lies about Cobb and filched all that he could from a man who was dying of cancer and dying to tell his story before it was too late. Stump couldn't wait for Cobb to die remarking that if Cobb died before the book was finished he would write what he wanted. "I'm not going to die before the book is finished," remarked Cobb. "I'll write slow," promised Stump!

    It was his destiny to deceive Cobb and he made no small efforts to purge all of Cobb's belongings from his two prolific estates in Lake Tahoe and Atherton.

    Stump took all of Cobb's letterheads, stationary and other personal effects and stored them where he could sell them off later for a handsome price. To make matters more outrageous, he began to forge hundreds, if not thousands of letters, notes and other handwritings and signed Cobb's name on them and sold them to anyone who would believe that they were authentic. He went as far as to use Cobb's traditional green ink for most of his handwriting forgeries.

    The most recent discoveries were diaries from 1942 & 1946 that Stump allegedly said belonged to Cobb. There are three known 1946 diaries out there that the possessors believe they have the original because of the "green ink."

    However, a closer examination of all three diaries clearly shows that the exact same handwriting was reproduced on each of the three diaries. Stump was a professional forger and sold all of these diaries illegally.

    Stump's lies were so deep in both of his books; the second one was released a year or more before his death in 1994, that it would take excessive space to detail it all. However, one thing is certain, the fuse is running short for Stump. The tide is turning on Stump and his secret, which he thought would never be revealed, is finally unraveling.

    But Stump wasn't the only deceiver of Cobb's. Ohio University history professor, Charles Alexander, followed Stump's first book in 1985 with a few falsities of his own in his book, "Ty Cobb." Alexander chose to fabricate stories of Cobb's run-ins with blacks to make Cobb look like a racist. Alexander once told this writer that he was at a disadvantage because of the lack of technology, but I am not buying into such an ineffectual and vain pardon.

    There is enough circumstantial evidence to lead one to believe that they had the same information available to them as we have now. It may not have been quite as easy to access before, but they still had it.

    It is obvious to see by some of the information that he did present in his book that he knew certain things but chose to interpret them to his own choosing. Such as when Cobb's father had been accidently shot and killed by his mother, Alexander stated that Mrs. Cobb had gotten a "shotgun" from the corner of the room and fired it at someone trying to "raise the window" from the "porch roof" of their home.

    The fact of the matter is, Mrs. Cobb was acquitted of murder in the Franklin County Superior Court on March 31st, 1906 and rightfully so. Mrs. Cobb herself gave a statement to the coroner's jury stating that she mistook her husband for an intruder and shot him with her pistol while he was standing in the yard.

    "I retired about 10 o'clock," said Mrs. Cobb to a coroner's jury shortly after the accident, "and woke up sometime during the night. I heard a kind of rustling noise at the lower window of my room," she continued. "I got up and got my pistol."

    There was no porch roof, there was no shotgun and there was never a lover as claimed by Alexander in his book. He had Mrs. Cobb's statement prior to writing his book and he chose to select the information to publish that work best for him in trying to establish a sensational hoopla in his book. He was also determined to make Cobb out to be a manic, "a creature without normal motivation," as he stated it.

    Stump and Alexander had followers to their displaced lunatic and extremely impractical phenomena. Richard Bak, of Detroit, shadowed Stump and Alexander stating that Cobb was a "Mean S.O.B." and Bak tried earnestly to settle his personal fight with the north and south through his book on Ty Cobb. The lesson to his readers on race relations in Georgia, or the south in general, were more of his fantasy than it was facts.

    On page 19 of his 2005 revised version of his former edition, "Ty Cobb: His Tumultuous Life And Times," Bak stated that "Ty and his father both read the 'Journal' religiously during its race-baiting heyday."

    Bak continued that their racial attitudes were shaped by, or "reinforced" by the papers "sensational views and inflammatory rhetoric." Contrary to Bak's belief that Professor W.H. Cobb supported a servile attitude toward blacks, he more so, advocated a broader education for blacks in the state of Georgia.

    In a speech he gave at a Georgia Agriculture Society Convention in Thomasville in August 1901, Mr. Cobb addressed the subject social equalities and the future Georgia would face with its race relations.

    "History teaches us that three systems of controlling the people of a Government have been tried, slavery, serfdom and education; that the first two have been dismal failures," said the elaborated Cobb. "That the educational system of governing a people by training up the children in the way they should go and teaching them to control themselves is the greatest political discovery of the ages."

    He continued that the "slate and pencil were more efficient implements of true weal than the hangman's knot and the policeman's club."

    He also gave his prophecies for the state's future racial solutions stating that the "day would come in Georgia when it would be absolutely necessary to preserve the equilibrium of social forces."

    Professor Cobb was very close to an outspoken and prominent Whig party member who was one of the last remaining voters in Georgia that elected Abraham Lincoln as our sixteenth president. Professor Cobb was editor of the paper owned by this fellow citizen who installed the first black census taker in the county.

    Professor Cobb fought for the rights to give equal education to the black population in Georgia and took on abolitionists' views toward blacks.

    This was an oversight on all former Cobb authors or was it? Didn't they have access to the same information? Why did they choose to omit such pertinent information about the subject of their eventual credibility? Why did they choose not to publish these positive points and details about Cobb's life?

    I believe they never foresaw the advancement of technology and they never suspected that someone would come along and discover their secrets, secrets that they published all these lies for their own gain at the expense of the greatest player in baseball history.

    The secrets of how they had information and they chose to employ "select information authorship," a method used in publishing a portion of the story and leaving out key information that would have balanced the scale of their story. This works until someone discovers the use of this strategy.

    However, because of these findings and additional discoveries to come, Al Stump, Charles Alexander and Richard Bak will soon be placed in the same category as liars, cheats and forgers destined to be set aside as an implausible Cobb resource and a new wave of stories and facts will surface to permanently stand solid for Ty Cobb's reputation and give his legacy final justice and restoration to its original state.

    It has been fifty years to the day that Ty Cobb made his final out.

    The day was a somber occurrence in Royston and the rest of northeast Georgia as baseball's most prominent performer made his way home from the private service held for him in Cornelia, Georgia. The session traveled 27 miles to Royston to a mausoleum he had built for his family to rest in eternally.

    Stump said that he took Ty to the Cobb mausoleum on a snowy Christmas Eve in 1960. He also claims that Cobb got extremely furious because he could not find the family mausoleum that he had built. To begin with, no accounts exist that prove it snowed on Christmas Eve that year. And there is no area of the graveyard where the Cobb Mausoleum is not visible. It is huge and sits on a hill near the highest point in the graveyard. I use to live four blocks away from there and I could see Cobb's mausoleum from my upstairs bedroom window.

    Stump was also the first to point out that Cobb only had three players to attend his funeral. There was a good reason for this. You see, the Cobb family made public request that the service be held private and ask members of Major League Baseball not to attend. Articles detailing the request were run in select media outlets.

    The family did not want Cobb's funeral to be a fiasco like Babe Ruth's funeral turned out to be. Most will remember that hundreds of thousands lined up outside St Patrick's Cathedral in New York as the chaos unraveled.

    There were three of Cobb's real close friends were allowed to attend as honorary pallbearers, Cochrane, Schalk and Nap Rucker. Also in attendance was Sid Keener, the then-director of the Baseball Hall of Fame.

    Unacknowledged to most, many of Cobb's contemporaries had already died by 1961. Ruth died in 1948, Speaker in 1958, Connie Mack in 1956, Hugh Jennings in 1928, Walter Johnson in 1946 and Honus Wagner in 1955. Cobb had simply outlived them all.

    He has endured so much more since his death than he ever had during his lifetime. Maybe someday, somewhere, people will want to believe the facts over the lies and deceit he has been handed by these gold-digging writers.

    All the lies written about Cobb have now been woven into baseball history and taken as the truth, believed to be supreme over actual and official written documents. But the unveiling of the Al Stump deception he has lived and died with will continue to surface, and the FBI investigation will remain active as new allegations arise. The Museums are removing the Stump forged pieces from displays all over the country and historians are sharing and trading information and acknowledging that Stump was a firsthand fraud.

    He lied about Mrs. Cobb shooting her husband with a shotgun. A story Stump concocted because of his beloved idol, Ernest Hemingway, had used a shotgun to kill himself two weeks before Cobb's death and when Stump was finishing up the book. It must be noted that Stump was the first writer to claim the shotgun story.

    Fifty years of believing Al Stump's version has made it difficult for those who believe in the truth will prevail, but I do see the turning of the mountain and the reversal of the tide. I am confident that an ending to his era is eminent as it relates to Ty Cobb.

    I believe in justice and I believe that people generally want to know the truth and eventually more people will research this subject thoroughly and extensively and determine that the facts, over the lies, will stand on their own merit.

    I believe that Stump will pay for his horrendous crime of ruining Cobb's reputation more than fifty years ago and soon will be tried in public opinion as new allegations are bound to be unearthed.

    But nevertheless, Ty Cobb memory will continue to endure even after the Al Stump era vanishes now that he has been exposed for his lies, pilfering and forgeries. Hopefully, now we can close the Al Stump period and move on to more reliable sources and get the facts out to the public for the historical intentions of preserving baseball long and revered past

    Long will live the Prince of Baseball !

  19. #44
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    Great Ty video created by the most knowledgable Ty Cobb man I know, Wesley Fricks. It's just great!

    http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoID=33535605

  20. #45
    Interesting stuff, Bill. As an admirer of Cobb myself, I like to believe that he was nothing like the monster Stump and others have painted him as. I recently re-watched the movie "Cobb," and I found it to be pretty ridiculous in light of what I've learned since I first saw it back in the '90s. The portrayal of Stump as one of America's most respected sportswriters was pretty laughable too. To be fair though, the movie did acknowledge some of the good things Cobb did, like helping Mickey Cochrane financially, and bequeathing some of his money to an education fund.

    I think some elements of that Wesley Fricks article are presented questionably. I admire his desire to defend Ty Cobb, but the writing style and frequently-unsourced claims make it come across as less than impartial. Let's look at some of these things:

    Stump made up lies about Cobb and filched all that he could from a man who was dying of cancer and dying to tell his story before it was too late. Stump couldn't wait for Cobb to die remarking that if Cobb died before the book was finished he would write what he wanted. "I'm not going to die before the book is finished," remarked Cobb. "I'll write slow," promised Stump!
    I remember that line from the movie. Offhand, I can't remember if it appeared in the book, but that would seem the most likely source. If so, does that mean Fricks is using Stump's own words to tell the story of what happened between the two men? Why, if Stump was a liar?

    According to the SABR article, Stump received a legitimate letter from Cobb saying he could help himself to certain possessions of his, so it would seem that Cobb trusted Stump. Why would he, if Stump basically told him he was willing to betray him?

    Furthermore, if one accepts that such an exchange did occur, it would suggest that Cobb did in fact have something to hide. Is Fricks knowingly ignoring facts that go against his argument?

    The fact of the matter is, Mrs. Cobb was acquitted of murder in the Franklin County Superior Court on March 31st, 1906 and rightfully so. Mrs. Cobb herself gave a statement to the coroner's jury stating that she mistook her husband for an intruder and shot him with her pistol while he was standing in the yard.

    "I retired about 10 o'clock," said Mrs. Cobb to a coroner's jury shortly after the accident, "and woke up sometime during the night. I heard a kind of rustling noise at the lower window of my room," she continued. "I got up and got my pistol."

    There was no porch roof, there was no shotgun and there was never a lover as claimed by Alexander in his book. He had Mrs. Cobb's statement prior to writing his book and he chose to select the information to publish that work best for him in trying to establish a sensational hoopla in his book.
    This might very well all be true, but it seems like Fricks is relying completely on the testimony of the defendant to declare Alexander a liar. It might've been more convincing if he'd offered more supporting evidence, as the SABR article does.

    Also, the SABR article says that Alexander relied on the testimony of Joe Cunningham, a local man whose recollections were inconsistent, for details about the shooting. Perhaps Alexander wasn't trying to "establish a sensational hoopla," but simply used sources that weren't completely reliable?

    He was also determined to make Cobb out to be a manic, "a creature without normal motivation," as he stated it.
    This part is confusing. Did Alexander specifically say that he wanted to show Cobb to be "a creature without normal motivation," or is that a description he used of Cobb in his book? If the former, what's the source of it? An interview? The preface to the book? A direct statement he made to Fricks? The way it's written, it comes across no differently than the hearsay quotes Stump put in his book.

    This was an oversight on all former Cobb authors or was it? Didn't they have access to the same information? Why did they choose to omit such pertinent information about the subject of their eventual credibility? Why did they choose not to publish these positive points and details about Cobb's life?

    I believe they never foresaw the advancement of technology and they never suspected that someone would come along and discover their secrets, secrets that they published all these lies for their own gain at the expense of the greatest player in baseball history.
    One might certainly argue that Cobb was the greatest baseball player in history, but stating it unequivocally makes Fricks appear more like a fan with an agenda than an unbiased seeker of the truth.

    The slightly conspiracy-theorist tone of this passage doesn't exactly help either. I don't know much about any of Cobb's biographers except Stump. While there's good reason to think that he was a fraud who wanted to publish an unfavorable story, I can't say for the rest of them. It's certainly possible that many of the others weren't completely fair to Cobb, but the presumption of ill intent on their part while offering no evidence isn't completely fair either. Considering Bak's book was published in the internet age, it's hard to imagine he felt he could hide behind a lack of technology.

    He lied about Mrs. Cobb shooting her husband with a shotgun. A story Stump concocted because of his beloved idol, Ernest Hemingway, had used a shotgun to kill himself two weeks before Cobb's death and when Stump was finishing up the book. It must be noted that Stump was the first writer to claim the shotgun story.
    It's certainly plausible that Stump was inspired by Hemingway, but it's still pure speculation. One should be careful not to state probable facts as absolute facts.

    Long will live the Prince of Baseball !
    Ending the article this way makes the whole thing sound like a fan piece rather than a scholarly attempt at presenting the true story.

    Believe me, I want to see Ty Cobb exonerated as much as anyone, but defenders like Wesley Fricks might appear more credible if they adopted a more even-handed tone in their defenses. When I read the article above, I frequently wonder if the writer is giving it to me straight or if he's putting his own spin on things. The most convincing parts are the ones where he cites his sources and doesn't rely on loaded words to punch up his writing. I would've been more impressed with this article if the whole thing had been like that.

  21. #46
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    I don't think that Cobb was anywhere near as bad as Stump makes him out to be, but I don't buy Wesley Frick's claim that Cobb wasn't a racist. Cobb appears to have become more paternalistic as he got older, but that is not the same thing as not being a racist.

  22. #47
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    Cobb's Ancestory!

    I don't believe that Cobb was immediately related to the distinquished Georgia Cobb's (Cobb's lineage coming through North Carolina.)

    However, all Cobbs may be related some way. Cobb's immediate lineage can be traced back to 1800, so if he was related to T.R.R. Cobb, it had to be distantly.

    It has been reported that Cobb claimed kin to the Georgia Cobbs. If so, I'm sure he could have explained how they were related. I have never been able to make that connection.

    Wesley Fricks
    TY COBB Historian

  23. #48
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    TY & Claire Cousins Not Lovers!

    I thought that I would wait and let you guys air out your opinions of the Cobb and Merritt/Hodgson/Ruth relationship before I broke the real news to you. (Laughter) I'm kidding!

    But really, Cobb's maternal grandmother was Sisily Mize, related to Johnny "Big Cat" Mize. Johnny Mize and Claire were second cousins making their kindship too close to consummate any type of sexual relationship.

    When Cobb said that it got "interesting" with Hodgson, I can assure you that it was not sexual.

    Claire Merritt Hodgson Ruth was Born September 11, 1900 and not 1897 as has been reported. She was 76 when she died in 1976. She was eight years old when Ty got married.

    I do not see her as a "gold digger" as proclaimed by Richard Bak. She married a wealthy owner of a boarding house. Frank Hodgson died in 1922, and she inherited their estate. I think she was more star-struck, meaning wanting to see herself prosper in the limelight of braodway and on the big screen. Everyone know how much she did for the Babe.

    She left Athens, Georgia (35 miles north of Royston) to appear in the Ziegfield Follies in 1918. Shortly afterwards, she poster modeled for third liberty loans posing for Harrison Fisher and Howard Chandler Christy. She also appeared in a motion picture starring Alma Reubens in Fools First.

    She also played in Rough And Ready with William Farnum, filmed at Port Henry, New York. She worked with D. W. Griffith and even starred in a stage production called "Tangerine" which toured through Georgia.

    She maintained all her life that her father handled some of Cobb's legal affairs, but I am trying to determine what those affairs consist of. It was not affairs relating to his mother's trials, or anything else pertaining to Franklin County, Georgia. In addition, I believe that Mr. Merritt would have been out of his jurisdiction otherwise.

    I will be interested in learning more about that!

    Sincerely,
    Wesley Fricks
    TY COBB Historian

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burgess View Post
    I
    But really, Cobb's maternal grandmother was Sisily Mize, related to Johnny "Big Cat" Mize. Johnny Mize and Claire were second cousins making their kindship too close to consummate any type of sexual relationship.
    In Georgia 100 years ago?
    Alcohol
    Tobacco
    Firearms
    should be a convenience store,
    not a government agency

  25. #50
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    I wish to go on record that I believe in Wesley Fricks' credibility and honesty. When he talks about Ty Cobb, I listen VERY closely. I also believe in the credibility of Charles Alexander and Richard Bak. I think if the three of them were to sit down in a room for a week, they would come to realize that they have no conflicts that they could not work out.

    I think Wesley is mistaken about the motives of Mr. Alexander and Richark Bak. I have spoken on the phone with Wesley and exchanged friendly emails with Charles Alexander. I find both to be extremely honest and wishing only true facts. I sincerely wonder if Charles Alexander or Richard Bak had the newspaper resources available to Wesley. Just because Wesley is harsh in his assessment of Alexander and Bak doesn't mean they were being unfairly selective in what they published. I think they might have been more limited in their resources than Wesley assumes.

    I remember when I finally was able to reach Wesley and speak with him, he told me he was concerned and suspicious of my motives with respect to Ty Cobb. And I was the most sympathetic person with respcet to Ty Cobb that I knew! Next to Wesley, of course!

    It is painful for the leading Ty Cobb historians to bicker in public. Washing our dirty laundry in a public forum is painful, but so be it if the truth must stand all challenges. For truth to be cleansed, it must be pelted from all sides in the forum of public opinion. Only then can the dross fall away and the truth stand revealed.

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