HBO 2007 Documentary on Brooklyn Dodgers, "The Ghosts Of Flatbush"

[MATHA531]

I have a hard time that O'Malley was a rich owner while in Brooklyn. The only rich owners in the 1950s were men who were already independently wealthy. I don't think any owner whose main source of income was a baseball team was getting rich in the 1950s.

Let's put it this way; he was doing quite well...after a bitter fight with Branch Rickey, he had acquired a very large chunk of the Dodgers and as noted through this era the Brooklyn franchise was the biggest money maker in baseball and again where our views diverge, there was little danger of that changing in the near future of that era thanks to that growing medium called television.

That hasn't changed in this country. Where do you think the bulk of NFL revenue comes from?

[EdTarbusz]

Let's put it this way; he was doing quite well...after a bitter fight with Branch Rickey, he had acquired a very large chunk of the Dodgers and as noted through this era the Brooklyn franchise was the biggest money maker in baseball and again where our views diverge, there was little danger of that changing in the near future of that era thanks to that growing medium called television.

That hasn't changed in this country. Where do you think the bulk of NFL revenue comes from?

The Dodgers were making a lot of money, but they also had a big overhead mainly because their extensive farm system. They also had a lot of World Series money. With an aging lsoing the World Series money had to be a concern for club officials.

[milladrive]

Yes, I read the thesis. Nothing like revising revisionism to create equalization.

The fact remains, though, that regardless of the opposition or support either "side" was receiving at the time -- Moses still had absolute power and the final word in the mid 1950s. I will continue to assert that all Moses had to do was to say yes and it would have been. I said it before I'd ever read Caro's The Power Broker, and I was still saying it long before HBO's 2007 documentary.

No, Moses didn't force the Dodgers to move to the city of Los Angeles, and, in fact, he eventually got what he wanted with the building of Shea Stadium, but the only thing the arguably most powerful man in NYC history had to do was approve O'Malley's constant pleas to build a new park in Brooklyn at the former engineer's adopted location.

Sure, driving to Atlantic and Flatbush from Long Island, as one interviewee claimed, was indeed a "shlep." It still is. However, driving to Atlantic and Flatbush was and is still easier to get to by car than it is to Bedford and Sullivan. I fully believe that the biggest mistake O'Malley made in his numerous claims to the all-powerful wholly Moses was to NOT include a request for an Atlantic Expressway through Queens and Brooklyn. It certainly wouldn't have been as major a project as was the Cross Bronx and would have affected many fewer people. In fact, Atlantic Avenue is [still wide enough for a limited access highway (thanks to the median once used for trolleys and subways). Instead, O'Malley didn't think of it, and Moses had his own ideas. And for over 40 years Robert Moses got what he wanted without any authority to whom to answer (despite whatever consensus supported his denials).

Imo, both were guilty of being bullheaded, but add my suggestions for the Atlantic Expressway and perhaps a spur up 3rd Avenue from the BQE -- the primary appeals I believe O'Malley failed to make -- and it just may have happened. No matter how it's sliced, though, the fact remains as is asserted in the documentary. Indeed, all Robert Moses had to do was say YES.

Btw, finances of "corruptorate" (my own word) figures are not my strong point. Taxes and tolls are paid, the lawmakers come up with them and the taxpayers pay them. The numbers are simply too high for me (and most of the general population) to comprehend. I do know, however, that, partly due to the New York Mets, the pendulum swung back soon enough. So, perhaps the taxes and profits gained and/or lost by all concerned in this saga shouldn't be part of the equation this many years down the road.

Btw, does anyone want a copy of The Ghosts Of Flatbush free of charge? Just PM me.

[Bobcat]

...well,.... it looks as though some folks did......watch it ...that is.....interesting discussion.....still no conclusion.....

[milladrive]

Just for everyone's info, I changed the title of this thread because it's no longer available "On Demand" at HBO, and, being an HBO documentary created in 2007, I felt the new title was more appropriate.

Incidentally, my DVD offer is still (and always will be) open to anyone who desires a copy.