2012 Mets Season Thread

[milladrive]

Quite right. And the shortstop we failed to even offer a contract to was a prime time New York performer.

I can't disagree. He was definitely a shining light in the NY market. At the same time, perhaps the market doesn't affect him at all. We'll have to wait to see what kind of numbers he puts up in Dade County.

Our shortstop is off to a much better start.

Pretty small sample size.

Furcal is hitting over .500 in his first 20 PA's maybe we should get him because after all its what you do on April 11th that reaaaally counts. Right?

...Like I said.

I donno on Bay. Boston, and replacing Manny before he made a mockery of himself, ain't exactly flyover land. Sometimes I think when a guy comes to NY "we" and the media are too quick to pat ourselves on the back and say they can't handle it here or as often as not (witness camera man getting inches from Randy Johnson's face as he walks into a doctor's office) creating self fulfilling prophecies or injecting into the story rather than sitting on the side and reporting/commenting.

I see what you're saying, but, despite their fans' tough expectations, Boston's media is nowhere close to New York's, Chicago's, or Los Angeles'. Besides, Fenway is a much different park. As for Pittsburgh, do they even have a media?

Lucas Duda is not a major league player. Not even close. He has power, but whoever gave him his glove should be arrested for placing a weapon in someones hands. I think the Mets have quite a few players that arent major leaguers but they get their names tossed around as a young core to build around. Its a smoke screen - Oz is not behind the curtain.

I tend to agree, in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way.

so now we need the proverbial 5 tool players. apparently Swoboda was a butcher early on he turned out alright. I'll duck, but Kent was no wizard at 2B, I don't recall but was that and his personality why he got kicked to the curb so quick.

To use your two examples, Swoboda was no Hall of Famer. An average OPS+, an OBP of about .325, and a BA around .240. Nothing to write home about. And if it weren't for a play in the '69 Series, he'd not be revered in any way as much more than a below average fielder. As for Kent, I think he's another good example of someone who couldn't shine in the NY market. The instant he got to San Francisco, he began to shine brightly. Maybe it's the coaching; maybe it's the less difficult market/media. We may never know.

Poor fielder = not a major league player. I think I've heard it all.

Defense is half the game. Duda's a bat that had to find a place in the lineup. Imho, he should be a DH. A National League DH.

[mandrake]

Defense is half the game. Duda's a bat that had to find a place in the lineup. Imho, he should be a DH. A National League DH.

What about a DF.... a designated fielder. Duda gets to hit, but Jason Bay plays the field and if he picks up a bat, the game is forfeited?

[theAmazingMet]

If nothing else BBF doesnt fail to amuse. Between people saying Tejada is better than Reyes, to people defending Fidel Castro in the Current Events thread I feel like I'm watching some messed up reality show set at Pilgrim State Hospital.

[Paulypal]

Poor fielder = not a major league player. I think I've heard it all.

Not just poor --- piss poor. As much I love offense I know that pitching and defense win championships. Lucas Duda will give back every run he produces and then some. Its amazing he got this far with such poor....piss poor defensive skills. He better hit 80 homers if he is going to play defense like he does.

I didnt say he cant improve. Right now he is not a major league player....he is a Met which right now doesnt mean major league ability. Stop reading the Met PR clippings. This team doesnt have a young core to build around. We get to see AAA and AA baseball in Queens, along with A ball in Brooklyn. We have to turn to the Bronx to watch the major leaguers.

[CokeMachineGlow]

Not just poor --- piss poor.

Boo hoo. Semantics.

As much I love offense I know that pitching and defense win championships.

That's like saying you need to cross home plate to score points. I get it -- we need a good team to win a championship(s).

Lucas Duda will give back every run he produces and then some. Its amazing he got this far with such poor....piss poor defensive skills. He better hit 80 homers if he is going to play defense like he does.

Duda isn't a good fielder. He's one-dimensional. He's currently one of the only forces in our lineup. What's your point? Would I bank on building around pieces like Duda? Sure. Is he my centerpiece? No.

I didnt say he cant improve. Right now he is not a major league player....he is a Met which right now doesnt mean major league ability

He has the ability to play and thrive in the Major League environment, thus he is a Major League player. I'm not even going to address the second half of that post since I don't even know what it means.

Stop reading the Met PR clippings. This team doesnt have a young core to build around. We get to see AAA and AA baseball in Queens, along with A ball in Brooklyn. We have to turn to the Bronx to watch the major leaguers.

We have a bunch of building blocks, but we have no central core. I agree, we don't have an actual core. We do have a good supporting cast to supplement a core.

[Paulypal]

Boo hoo. Semantics.

Not Semantics at all...I am just showing further depths of poor

That's like saying you need to cross home plate to score points. I get it -- we need a good team to win a championship(s).

Way to miss the point. Catching the ball..............a fundamental that can not be over looked in this case.


Duda isn't a good fielder. He's one-dimensional. He's currently one of the only forces in our lineup. What's your point? Would I bank on building around pieces like Duda? Sure. Is he my centerpiece? No.

Duda is a force now? I didnt get that memo. Then again I didnt read the PR press clippings either. If you bank on building guys like Duda the building will fall.


He has the ability to play and thrive in the Major League environment, thus he is a Major League player. I'm not even going to address the second half of that post since I don't even know what it means.

Wow....major leaguers catch the ball. Do you know what that means?

We have a bunch of building blocks, but we have no central core. I agree, we don't have an actual core. We do have a good supporting cast to supplement a core.

I thought building blocks were the core. I must be mistaken. Right now the Mets are breeding bench depth - at best - for contenders.

[CokeMachineGlow]

Way to miss the point. Catching the ball..............a fundamental that can not be over looked in this case

.

Hitting the ball. A fundamental that you're overlooking in this case.

Duda is a force now? I didnt get that memo. Then again I didnt read the PR press clippings either. If you bank on building guys like Duda the building will fall.

Duda has 25 HR power and can possibly hit for a decent average. John Sickels and Keith Law must be writing for the Mets now? And you do realize Duda is an above-average player, right? You can build around those types....you know that, right?

Wow....major leaguers catch the ball. Do you know what that means?

What an astute observation, chief. Please tell me more about your never ending wisdom. Duda can catch the ball - he can get to your average fly balls, he won't cover a lot of ground, though. I really don't understand how that doesn't make you a Major League player. Robinson Cano must not be a Major League player -- he isn't that good of a fielder. Same goes for Derek Jeter. And David Wright.

I thought building blocks were the core. I must be mistaken. Right now the Mets are breeding bench depth - at best - for contenders.

Wow, you know absolutely nothing. It really astonishes me.

Duda can give you max value in the AL at the DH position. Thole is an average catcher, but the catcher position is scarce and a lot of teams would take him. Tejada is a fringe starter/bench player. Shall I go on?

[milladrive]

Not just poor --- piss poor. As much I love offense I know that pitching and defense win championships. Lucas Duda will give back every run he produces and then some. Its amazing he got this far with such poor....piss poor defensive skills. He better hit 80 homers if he is going to play defense like he does.

.

[Paulypal]

.

Hitting the ball. A fundamental that you're overlooking in this case.



Duda has 25 HR power and can possibly hit for a decent average. John Sickels and Keith Law must be writing for the Mets now? And you do realize Duda is an above-average player, right? You can build around those types....you know that, right?



What an astute observation, chief. Please tell me more about your never ending wisdom. Duda can catch the ball - he can get to your average fly balls, he won't cover a lot of ground, though. I really don't understand how that doesn't make you a Major League player. Robinson Cano must not be a Major League player -- he isn't that good of a fielder. Same goes for Derek Jeter. And David Wright.



Wow, you know absolutely nothing. It really astonishes me.

Duda can give you max value in the AL at the DH position. Thole is an average catcher, but the catcher position is scarce and a lot of teams would take him. Tejada is a fringe starter/bench player. Shall I go on?

Duda is an above average player? Wow....and I know nothing? Do you understand what the term "player" means. Duda has power, but he stinks with the glove...stinks something fierce. A player plays both sides of the ball...not necessarily a gold glover but someone that looks like they have done it before. He doesnt.

Now your metioning Duda in the same sentence with Jeter, Cano, and Wright.....and yet I still know nothing to your astonishment.

Yes he can be a DH (maybe--do we even know he is going to be a good hitter yet? No we dont)....not sure if you realize this - The Mets are in the NL, and the DH is only in the AL. I know nothing but I know some of the rules...like the DH one. (ok I admit - I just Googled it). Stop drinking the Kool Aid.

Yes go on please...enlighten me with your knowledge. Tejada is a fringe starter/bench player? He is a starter on a team that sucks..... a bench player on a good team, and a AAA player on championship caliber team.

Duda is an above average player... My Lord.

[Blue387]

Jason Bay hit a two-run home run off Cliff Lee tonight.

[Paulypal]

Good win. Dickey was outstanding again. He probably is the most consistant knuckleballer I have seen. He always keeps them in the game.

On the other hand, and this gets back to my point earlier.. the play that happened with Thole just cant happen. Physical errors can happen, but that type of mistake is really not acceptable.

[milladrive]

He better hit 80 homers if he is going to play defense like he does.

Hahaahaha. (...Call that a delayed reaction; I was lying in bed last night falling asleep when that remark popped into my head and made me lol.)

[Blue387]

Hahaahaha. (...Call that a delayed reaction; I was lying in bed last night falling asleep when that remark popped into my head and made me lol.)

Duda also needs to steal 80 bases to become the first 80/80 man in history. I believe he can do this.

[Ralf]

So much negativity towards the players after 7 games............the schtick is so tired.

[milladrive]

So much negativity towards the players after 7 games............the schtick is so tired.

I think at this point, it's primarily intended to be in good humor. ...for whatever that's worth.

"You know the good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." ~ B. Joel

[CokeMachineGlow]

Duda is an above average player? Wow....and I know nothing? Do you understand what the term "player" means.

If you need to be an excellent fielder and hitter to be called a Major League player, then about half of the player in the MLB don't deserve to be called "players."

Duda has power, but he stinks with the glove...stinks something fierce. A player plays both sides of the ball...not necessarily a gold glover but someone that looks like they have done it before. He doesnt.

You do realize that RF is a difficult position to play for someone who barely played there in the minors, right? He's a LF/1B. Duda is a below-average fielder, so...that makes him not a Major League player? Why don't we send the likes of Duda, Wright, and Murphy down to the minors since they're average to below-average fielders. Get a grip, man. You're definition of a "player" is blatantly obtuse.

Now your metioning Duda in the same sentence with Jeter, Cano, and Wright.....and yet I still know nothing to your astonishment.

Did you really not get the point? Are you seriously taking things out of context? Are they players or not? Jeter, Cano, and Wright are bad fielders - they must not be your definition of a "player", though.

Did you really not get the point? Are they players or not? The players I mentioned are considered pretty bad defenders.
Yes he can be a DH (maybe--do we even know he is going to be a good hitter yet? No we dont)....not sure if you realize this - The Mets are in the NL, and the DH is only in the AL. I know nothing but I know some of the rules...like the DH one. (ok I admit - I just Googled it). Stop drinking the Kool Aid.

What in the world are you talking about? I'm not anointing Duda as the next Albert Pujols. Saying Duda is an above-average player isn't a stretch. Various scouts such as Law and Sickels see Duda as a good hitter, but poor fielder down the stretch who is a starter caliber player. They must be working for the Mets, though -- since all I read is their PR clippings.

Yes go on please...enlighten me with your knowledge. Tejada is a fringe starter/bench player? He is a starter on a team that sucks..... a bench player on a good team, and a AAA player on championship caliber team.

Good lord, do you realize how weak the SS position truly is? If Tejada were a third basemen I would agree, but he isn't. He hits as well as your average utility player and is a good fielder. That is fringe starter/ bench player worthy.

Duda is an above average player... My Lord.

He is.

[Ralf]

I think at this point, it's primarily intended to be in good humor. ...for whatever that's worth.

"You know the good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." ~ B. Joel

Totally disagree. Some people are just know-it-alls. "Duda sucks, Tejada sucks, Thole sucks, the Mets are AAA team, Alderson doesn't know what he's doing, Jose was the greatest player ever" and on and on..... The schtick is tired.

I'm actually really excited about this year. I want to see how each of these young guys makes it through another full season BEFORE deciding anything. Others seem to know-it-all already.......and without any factual data either.

[Blue387]

David Wright hits a first pitch home run in today's game against the Phillies.

[Blue387]

Duda's two-run dinger
4/14/12: Lucas Duda hits his third home run of the season, a two-run shot that gives the Mets a 4-0 lead

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20612545

[milladrive]

Totally disagree. Some people are just know-it-alls. "Duda sucks, Tejada sucks, Thole sucks, the Mets are AAA team, Alderson doesn't know what he's doing, Jose was the greatest player ever" and on and on..... The schtick is tired.

I'm actually really excited about this year. I want to see how each of these young guys makes it through another full season BEFORE deciding anything. Others seem to know-it-all already.......and without any factual data either.

I didn't realize humor and effacing a team we root for were mutually exclusive. See, I didn't know that before. Now I do.

Who was the last Met fan you ever Met who didn't think he was the greatest armchair GM of all-time? This place is full of them. Just look around. Can't take things too seriously, Ralf.

Which brings me to my other point. We are going to remain civil at all times in the Mets forum. This means focusing on the post, not the poster. If I see any more comments of a negative personal nature, the suspensions will go out. And I mean business. Demeaning others and/or their opinions is entirely unacceptable. Wanna debate? Debate. But it's gonna be in a polite, to-the-point style. Period.

[Ralf]

I didn't realize humor and effacing a team we root for were mutually exclusive.

I'm still waiting to read the humorous posts....

All I see are mostly debbie-downers and know-it-all contrarians. Not pointing to anyone in particular but just calling it as I see it.

[theAmazingMet]

I'm still waiting to read the humorous posts....

All I see are mostly debbie-downers and know-it-all contrarians. Not pointing to anyone in particular but just calling it as I see it.

One mans debbie downer is another mans realist. I also dont think anyone ever called Reyes the best player ever. Although he is our best shortstop ever.

[CokeMachineGlow]

I see a realistic optimist and a pessimist. Worlds are clashing here, people. Our debate isn't as vilifying as Paulypal's and NYMets back in the day, though. Those got really personal and rough.

[Strawman]

One mans debbie downer is another mans realist. I also dont think anyone ever called Reyes the best player ever. Although he is our best shortstop ever.

Yeah Reyes is our all-time shortstop and a top five homegrown Mets star - and the team let him go. That's not debbie-downerism to discuss that the very season he was exiled.

And yeah, do do know it all - we're baseball fans, Mets fans! And I've been one since 1969....

[Ralf]

No doubt Reyes was the best homegrown shortstop the Mets have ever produced. That doesn't mean he is worth $18m a year and the front office made a bad decision in not signing him which some suggest.

And yes, no one directly called Reyes the best player ever - that was clearly an exaggeration on my part. However, I think some fans are so emotional about Jose because he is homegrown that they put him on a pedestal he has not earned imo.