2012 Mets Season Thread

[Blue387]

Scott Hairston hits for the cycle in tonight's game. This has been a weird game.

[Mongoose]

As I'm pretty sure this is directed at me I shall respond in kind. I dont recall insulting any particular person. In fact no groundrules were violated. As far as people wanting to donate to the Wilponzi fund, thats their right, but notice how many aren't anymore? Newsday even ran an article on how only 2-3,000 people are going to games. Regardless of the "announced" attendance. But lets face it, if some New Yorkers didnt like inferior products all the cheap knockoffs from China being sold in the alleys of Mott St would have no market as well. If people want to support Wilpon and go to games, and post about it, than conversly people may post about non support and not going to games. As long as there are no personal attacks, than not allowing a certain segmant to voice their opinions reeks of censorship. This isnt about the team at all. Hey support them all you want, but I wont be a hypocrite and bash the Wilpons while contributing to their regeneration fund. It hurts to not go trust me, but rooting for the Mets is like rooting for Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde. I like the team and want them to do well, but hate the owners and want them to fail. Its the same dilema wearing the apparel. I want to show support for the team, not the owners, but some people see it as one and the same. We the fans were able to get rid of the horrid DeRoullet-Grant ownership in the late 70's and I feel we can do the same to the Wilpons now. I used to follow blindly along rooting against logic, and history that we would have another golden age, but now I'm pretty sure that as long as the Wilpons own this team we will never see a championship. Its a shame that a team in New York City, with a proud NL tradition is run into the ground by a couple of hucksters, and its fans treated with borderline contempt by the owners. Mets fans deserve better.

I disagree Amazing. Ownership doesn't treat fans with borderline contempt: it treats fans with contempt. I think questioning the wisdom of patronizing that ownership is valid. All real Mets fans want change. I suspect the Mets and SNY are their only profitable entities. Spending money on the Mets is bad for the team right now. It's unfortunate some people can't grasp that paradox without getting emotional.

As for Mandrake's question: it's been said elsewhere that if attendance doesn't reach certain minimums the Wilpons will have to give rebates to businesses renting concessions. The Wilpons lying to keep their paws on someone else's money? Makes sense. The attendance figures appear to be bald faced lies. Most likely there are enough technical ticket give-aways to allow the Wilpons to claim flagrantly false "paid" attendance. Or maybe not. Who knows where these phantom "tickets" wind up. I know journalists read these threads. One of them should write an expose explaining exactly what's going on.

[milladrive]

Question that wisdom in the Management thread. That's what it's there for. Whether right or wrong, paradox or otherwise, we're not gonna ruin this thread with a potentially alienating anti-attendance anti-Wilponzi agenda nor debate. That's all I'm saying. There's a time and a place for everything, and this is not the place to bitch about management.

And Amazing, there are times and places where one needs to censor oneself. Like it or not, this thread is one of those places.

[Strawman]

Question that wisdom in the Management thread. That's what it's there for. Whether right or wrong, paradox or otherwise, we're not gonna ruin this thread with a potentially alienating anti-attendance anti-Wilponzi agenda nor debate. That's all I'm saying. There's a time and a place for everything, and this is not the place to bitch about management.

And Amazing, there are times and places where one needs to censor oneself. Like it or not, this thread is one of those places.

Yeah and there's always last night's nail-biter to review! (I kid, I kid...lightening the mood, I am).

[milladrive]

Yeah and there's always last night's nail-biter to review! (I kid, I kid...lightening the mood, I am).

Heh, that truly was ridiculous, wa'n'it? How good we felt when we jumped up 6-2 was so quickly erased. Sorry to say, I thought Collins left in both Schwinden and Acosta way too long. I honestly believe that game could've been salvaged if Collins wasn't so intent to get Schwinden through the fifth and recognized that he was in the kind of trouble he wasn't gonna get himself out of in that inning, and if he'd yanked Acosta when it was virtually instantly obvious he didn't have his stuff.

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I hate scoring nine runs and losing.

[Strawman]

Heh, that truly was ridiculous, wa'n'it? How good we felt when we jumped up 6-2 was so quickly erased. Sorry to say, I thought Collins left in both Schwinden and Acosta way too long. I honestly believe that game could've been salvaged if Collins wasn't so intent to get Schwinden through the fifth and recognized that he was in the kind of trouble he wasn't gonna get himself out of in that inning, and if he'd yanked Acosta when it was virtually instantly obvious he didn't have his stuff.

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I hate scoring nine runs and losing.

The defense was also pretty horrid - we're not a great defensive team right now.

[Blackout]

i wonder why the mets didnt at least OFFER jose reyes a contract to try to keep him

[Blue387]

Ike Davis is currently batting .141/.208/.268/.475 in 20 games and 71 at-bats.

[milladrive]

i wonder why the mets didnt at least OFFER jose reyes a contract to try to keep him

Imagine Charlie Brown's Lucy trying to keep up with Dr. Freud. The Mets had no intention of making an offer to him because they didn't have the funds (at the time) to even compete in the market. The prime directive this past winter was to slash the payroll, and signing Reyes would've gone against that directive.

Ike Davis is currently batting .141/.208/.268/.475 in 20 games and 71 at-bats.

You know what? I'm okay with that. Why? Because I happen to think Ike is better than that. So, when he finally gets out of this funk, the numbers are bound to rise. I firmly believe he'll get hot enough to end the season with at least a .260 BA, which means at some point this season he'll go on a major tear. All it takes is to have a couple of .300+ months and it'll all balance out. I don't think Ike is incapable of that. So, I'm keeping the faith.

[milladrive]

Yet another super catch by Nieuwenhuis!

I simply can't believe that Collins has already made up his mind to replace him in center tomorrow when Torres comes back! The plan as I've heard it is to platoon Kirk with Hairston in left until Bay comes back. Frankly, Nieuwenhuis is just too good, both offensively and defensively, to just pull him out of the lineup. I really don't know what Collins is thinking, other than he wants a switch hitter with a little more speed leading off. I say it's not a fair trade-off, considering all that Kirk's proven by now.

Unbelievable. Get ready for a slow downward spiral until Collins takes his head out of his... sand.

[Blue387]

Frankly, Nieuwenhuis is just too good, both offensively and defensively, to just pull him out of the lineup. I really don't know what Collins is thinking, other than he wants a switch hitter with a little more speed leading off. I say it's not a fair trade-off, considering all that Kirk's proven by now.

I think Nieuwenhuis is going to struggle. Other teams will find his hitting weakness and exploit it. It would be up to Kirk to respond.

[Blue387]

Why can't this bullpen hold onto a lead?

Edit: Mets win, finally.

Ike Davis now batting .169/.229/.299/.528.

[EasilyFound]

Capt Kirk should remain in the lineup.

Nice catch, huh?

[Brooklyn]

I think Nieuwenhuis is going to struggle. Other teams will find his hitting weakness and exploit it. It would be up to Kirk to respond.

you are probably right. But why not ride the hot hand? Particularly with Bay out, let him play. And since he is a better center fielder than Torres, put Torres in left. They can re-evaluate when Bay comes back. No reason to give Hairston at bats - you know what you have with him

Why can't this bullpen hold onto a lead?

Edit: Mets win, finally.

Very happy they won, but feel for Santana. Guy pitched his ass off and can't get a win. Guy is 0-2 with a 2.25 ERA. At least they finally scored runs for him, but he could very easily be 4-1 the way he has pitched. Pull out the one game where he got shelled (and even that game the defense let him down) and he is 0-1 with a 0.79 ERA in the other 4 games.

[PVNICK]

No disrespect to Torres but why can't he come back and play LF or does Captain Kirk have previous experience there?

[CokeMachineGlow]

Niuwenhuis is a pretty poor defender at center, while Torres is considered a pretty good fielder. It's not that hard to see that moving Cap'N Kirk to LF is the better move.

[Paulypal]

Niuwenhuis is a pretty poor defender at center, while Torres is considered a pretty good fielder. It's not that hard to see that moving Cap'N Kirk to LF is the better move.

I agree. Kirk has to stay in the lineup but not in center. Torres is a better cf'er.

Even "the catch" he made yesterday was good but like many catches you see on highlights the dive wasnt necessary. Sort of a pet peeve of mine.

[PVNICK]

Torres does have more of a track record. I check what the "data" actually is rather than using the ever trusty eye test, which is often skewed by a few plays and selective memory. On fan graphs they have him @ 35/35 on plays made/balls in zone. Torres FWIW by that measure looks to grade out fairly well. The best I can tell he makes disproportionately less plays OOZ (out of zone) than his peers so overall he ranks slightly lower.

[Cowtipper]

I have the feeling Acosta won't be around much longer.

[milladrive]

Niuwenhuis is a pretty poor defender at center, while Torres is considered a pretty good fielder. It's not that hard to see that moving Cap'N Kirk to LF is the better move.

I disagree.

I agree. Kirk has to stay in the lineup but not in center. Torres is a better cf'er.

I disagree.

I have the feeling Acosta won't be around much longer.

I agree. ...and hope you're right.

[Blue387]

I would take Jeremy Hefner over Acosta. Hefner did pitch three scoreless innings against the Giants last week before he was demoted to the minors.

[Blue387]

What the heck did the front office see in Miguel Batista?

[PVNICK]

What the heck did the front office see in Miguel Batista?

Long relief and emergency starts? I just double checked his stats. He's 41. A team like this should only have guys that age as coaches.

[milladrive]

Okay, I've officially had enough of Schwinden. ....and Acosta.

I think we need to try Hefner or deal for another starter.

[Blue387]

This team should have spent some of the money for Francisco for a starter. Last season, the Mets had Young and Capuano for relatively cheap and they gave the team many innings started. Edwin Jackson, Joe Saunders, Joel Piniero, Aaron Cook could have pitched for the Mets this season.