Bad sportsmanship

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  • tradosaurus
    Team Veteran
    • May 2011
    • 956

    Bad sportsmanship

    We played in a 13U tournament this weekend. In the championship game we were losing 3-1 with 2 innings left when our coach talked to the umpire to inform him that the opposing team's pitcher had just surpassed the 8 inning maximum allowed by the tournament.

    After the tournament director verified the innings pitched by the opposing team's pitcher (8 2/3) he called the game in our favor because of forfeit rule of going over the maximum inning per pitcher.

    We lined up to shake hands with the other team and the opposing coaches refused to have their team shake hands with us. I heard one parent yell "So how does it feel?". I yelled back "It feels sweet!".

    What are those kids being taught?
  • Jake Patterson
    Coaching 101 Moderator
    • Oct 2005
    • 14033

    #2
    Originally posted by tradosaurus View Post
    We played in a 13U tournament this weekend. In the championship game we were losing 3-1 with 2 innings left when our coach talked to the umpire to inform him that the opposing team's pitcher had just surpassed the 8 inning maximum allowed by the tournament.

    After the tournament director verified the innings pitched by the opposing team's pitcher (8 2/3) he called the game in our favor because of forfeit rule of going over the maximum inning per pitcher.

    We lined up to shake hands with the other team and the opposing coaches refused to have their team shake hands with us. I heard one parent yell "So how does it feel?". I yelled back "It feels sweet!".

    What are those kids being taught?
    Losing by forfiet is never a good thing and little is learned..... That said, it does happen and it IS part of the game... Over the years I have always felt that a forfiet of this nature is the result of a poor coaching decision (either by not keeping track properly, conciously making a decision to keep his pitcher in, or not knowing the rules). No matter how you slice or dice it's a victory for the wrong reasons and not because you "beat" the other team... I learned that when this happens - keep your mouth closed, respect the other players and then talk about it when you get your team in centerfield by themselves. Tell the parents to hold their comments...
    "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
    - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
    Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

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    • mellowthunder
      Registered User
      • Aug 2011
      • 62

      #3
      Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
      Losing by forfiet is never a good thing and little is learned..... That said, it does happen and it IS part of the game... Over the years I have always felt that a forfiet of this nature is the result of a poor coaching decision (either by not keeping track properly, conciously making a decision to keep his pitcher in, or not knowing the rules). No matter how you slice or dice it's a victory for the wrong reasons and not because you "beat" the other team... I learned that when this happens - keep your mouth closed, respect the other players and then talk about it when you get your team in centerfield by themselves. Tell the parents to hold their comments...
      It's not fun winning on a forfeit or loosing on a forfeit. It's just a bad situation for all. You can't really control how the other teams handle things but I think you kind of stooped down to their level by saying "It feels sweet". Controlling your emotions shows more class in my opinion.

      Comment

      • EdTarbusz
        091707 0657
        • Jul 2007
        • 6442

        #4
        This situation seemed to be more bad sportsmanship on the part of the coach, in my opinion. When I was a kid we weren't required to shake hands with the other team and I really don't understand why it is done today.

        Comment

        • tradosaurus
          Team Veteran
          • May 2011
          • 956

          #5
          When I coached 10U league team I would have our pitcher call time and go shake hands with the batter he just "plunked" to show that it was not intentional.

          I wish the teams in MLB would line up to shake hands after each game.

          The coach of the opposing team showed his players that if things don't go your way or you feel slighted then to go off and pout. Baseball is more than about winning or losing but how to deal with failure.

          Comment

          • Jake Patterson
            Coaching 101 Moderator
            • Oct 2005
            • 14033

            #6
            Originally posted by tradosaurus View Post
            When I coached 10U league team I would have our pitcher call time and go shake hands with the batter he just "plunked" to show that it was not intentional.

            I wish the teams in MLB would line up to shake hands after each game.

            The coach of the opposing team showed his players that if things don't go your way or you feel slighted then to go off and pout. Baseball is more than about winning or losing but how to deal with failure.
            Trade on this we agree....

            Professional and college ball has signals to indicate intent with the batters when they plunk them. It's usually the hat... hence the long stare downs when going to first...
            "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
            - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
            Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

            Comment

            • Jake Patterson
              Coaching 101 Moderator
              • Oct 2005
              • 14033

              #7
              Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
              This situation seemed to be more bad sportsmanship on the part of the coach, in my opinion. When I was a kid we weren't required to shake hands with the other team and I really don't understand why it is done today.
              Well then tell us what value you feel "not shaking hands" brings to youth athletics???
              "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
              - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
              Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

              Comment

              • AdamInNY
                Registered User
                • Apr 2010
                • 1883

                #8
                On our teams. We've always taught the tipping of the cap after a player gets hit.

                With my son's team which is younger, if we've suspected something against the rules going on, we've always tried to point it out before the fact. For example in our summer travel league there are rules against a player catching and pitching in the same game. A team we were playing against either didn't know the rule, or was ignoring it. We pointed it out before the kid pitched. Same goes for exceeding pitch limits, illegal bats, etc.

                Comment

                • EdTarbusz
                  091707 0657
                  • Jul 2007
                  • 6442

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
                  Well then tell us what value you feel "not shaking hands" brings to youth athletics???
                  I think doing something by rote teaches neither respect or sportsmanship. I don't think the mandatory hand shaking brings any value to youth athletics.

                  Comment

                  • tradosaurus
                    Team Veteran
                    • May 2011
                    • 956

                    #10
                    Originally posted by AdamInNY View Post
                    On our teams. We've always taught the tipping of the cap after a player gets hit.

                    With my son's team which is younger, if we've suspected something against the rules going on, we've always tried to point it out before the fact. For example in our summer travel league there are rules against a player catching and pitching in the same game. A team we were playing against either didn't know the rule, or was ignoring it. We pointed it out before the kid pitched. Same goes for exceeding pitch limits, illegal bats, etc.
                    In our first tournament one of the opposing coaches stopped the game and informed the umpire that our catchers gear was illegal, even though this was the 5th game we played in this tournament. I don't think he was raising the issue out of concern for our catchers safety.

                    Comment

                    • johnlanza
                      17u Fall 20 and Spring 21
                      • Jun 2010
                      • 1003

                      #11
                      Originally posted by tradosaurus View Post
                      We played in a 13U tournament this weekend. In the championship game we were losing 3-1 with 2 innings left when our coach talked to the umpire to inform him that the opposing team's pitcher had just surpassed the 8 inning maximum allowed by the tournament.

                      After the tournament director verified the innings pitched by the opposing team's pitcher (8 2/3) he called the game in our favor because of forfeit rule of going over the maximum inning per pitcher.
                      Unfortunately, forfeits can be part of the game. Let me ask this: Does a coach who sees something like this about to happen take it upon himself to mention to the other team the pitcher is about to exceed the innings limit? Having not been in the situation yet (still in coach-pitch), I think I would almost feel bad about winning a game, especially a tournament game, because of something like this. And even though it's more than likely the other coach knew exactly what he was doing, there's no honor in winning by forfeit this way.

                      Comment

                      • skipper5
                        Registered User
                        • Oct 2007
                        • 5334

                        #12
                        Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
                        I think doing something by rote teaches neither respect or sportsmanship. I don't think the mandatory hand shaking brings any value to youth athletics.
                        How about instead of calling it "mandatory hand shaking" we call it a "ritual of mutual respect."?

                        Athletics are ritualized warfare. Emphasis on the underlined. Especially in youth athletics. But also, for instance, after the concluding game of an NHL playoff series, when the players line up and shake hands.
                        Last edited by skipper5; 04-02-2012, 11:03 AM.
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                        • Roothog66
                          Registered User
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 5443

                          #13
                          Originally posted by johnlanza View Post
                          Unfortunately, forfeits can be part of the game. Let me ask this: Does a coach who sees something like this about to happen take it upon himself to mention to the other team the pitcher is about to exceed the innings limit? Having not been in the situation yet (still in coach-pitch), I think I would almost feel bad about winning a game, especially a tournament game, because of something like this. And even though it's more than likely the other coach knew exactly what he was doing, there's no honor in winning by forfeit this way.
                          I think knowing the rules and using them to your advantage is part of the game. Here's one. If you noticed an opposing batter batting out of turn, would you mention it before he took a pitch or wait to see the result? OK, maybe at the coach/pitch level or below, point it out, but at higher levels of ball, no coach even moderately interested in winning doesn't use this to his advantage. Especially when it comes to pitcher's innings, this is either an inadvertent mistake that leads to an advantage for the opposition or an outright attempt to gain an advantage. Either way, a forfeit is in order. It's not likely that a kid who's reached his pitching limits is anything but one of the team's best pitchers.

                          Comment

                          • EdTarbusz
                            091707 0657
                            • Jul 2007
                            • 6442

                            #14
                            Originally posted by skipper5 View Post
                            How about instead of calling it "mandatory hand shaking" we call it a "ritual of mutual respect."?

                            Athletics are ritualized warfare. Emphasis on the underlined. Especially in youth athletics. But also, for instance, after the concluding game of an NHL playoff series.
                            I don't think going through the motions doing something indicates any kind of respect, mutual or otherwise. As I said earlier e=we didn't do this when I was a kid and I don't think not doing it took anything from our games.

                            Comment

                            • Roothog66
                              Registered User
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 5443

                              #15
                              Originally posted by tradosaurus View Post
                              We played in a 13U tournament this weekend. In the championship game we were losing 3-1 with 2 innings left when our coach talked to the umpire to inform him that the opposing team's pitcher had just surpassed the 8 inning maximum allowed by the tournament.

                              After the tournament director verified the innings pitched by the opposing team's pitcher (8 2/3) he called the game in our favor because of forfeit rule of going over the maximum inning per pitcher.

                              We lined up to shake hands with the other team and the opposing coaches refused to have their team shake hands with us. I heard one parent yell "So how does it feel?". I yelled back "It feels sweet!".

                              What are those kids being taught?
                              However, I would suggest, in the future, always ignore comments from the other team's parents. If a coach had said it, a smart comment might be appropriate, since they were the ones that screwed up. Parents can be a pain. Three years ago, we actually had the following exchange during a game between parents (I'm not even sure I remember what it wwas about):

                              Their dad: "You're stupid."

                              Our dad: "No. Your stupid."

                              Their Dad: Uh-uh. You're stupid!"

                              This was between a state trooper and a middle school principal.

                              Comment

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