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Thread: 2012 Red Sox Season Thread

  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D. View Post
    In general, you shouldn't post opinions on an internet message board if you can't handle people disagreeing with you.

    Heck, that's what these places are for...if we all agreed, this place would be DULL!

    Or am I wrong?
    i'm with you. We are also here to debate, exchange informations and to know that we are not alone when we cheer or hate when things go as they go. But you also have to be cool with critics if you are talking nonsense, which is relative of course...

  2. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    unfortunately Tony, you will need to back that up with stats

    hahaha. Yeah, right.

  3. #278
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    Could someon explain Aaron Cook's "opt out clause" for me? Does it really mean he could walk after May 1? If so, wouldn't it be prudent just to bring him up?
    "I believe in the Church of Baseball. I tried all the major religions and most of the minor ones. I've worshipped Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms and Isadora Duncan. I know things. For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance." ~Ron Shelton, from Bull Durham

  4. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximum jack View Post
    Could someon explain Aaron Cook's "opt out clause" for me? Does it really mean he could walk after May 1? If so, wouldn't it be prudent just to bring him up?
    Yes, if he's not on the major league roster by May 1st, he can opt to become a FA and sign with any team.

    The only problem with bringing him up is who do you boot from the rotation? Doubront has pitched well, and Bard has a lot of potential. The other guys are all signed for good money.

    Cook is dominating AAA hitters, but has a career ERA over 4.50 (in Colorado, yes, but also in the NL).
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  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D. View Post
    Yes, if he's not on the major league roster by May 1st, he can opt to become a FA and sign with any team.

    The only problem with bringing him up is who do you boot from the rotation? Doubront has pitched well, and Bard has a lot of potential. The other guys are all signed for good money.

    Cook is dominating AAA hitters, but has a career ERA over 4.50 (in Colorado, yes, but also in the NL).
    I heard, he had two opt outs. One by May 1st and one by June 1st. Like Mike said, I really don't want to dump anybody from the rotation right now. We can try to trade him or just let him opt out. I think Hill will replace Thomas not too far from today.

  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwissRedSoxFan View Post
    I heard, he had two opt outs. One by May 1st and one by June 1st. Like Mike said, I really don't want to dump anybody from the rotation right now. We can try to trade him or just let him opt out. I think Hill will replace Thomas not too far from today.
    It's a pretty standard thing put into veterans contracts when they sign minor league deals. He's pitching well enough that someone will give him a big league job, so if everyone is healthy, the Sox will probably let him go.

    I agree that Hill taking Thomas' spot as the 2nd lefty in the pen is probable, and should be an upgrade.
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  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwissRedSoxFan View Post
    I heard, he had two opt outs. One by May 1st and one by June 1st.
    That is correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissRedSoxFan View Post
    I think Hill will replace Thomas not too far from today.
    Partly correct. Hill up, Thomas down. But not "not too far from today" but today! ;-)
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  8. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D. View Post
    It's a pretty standard thing put into veterans contracts when they sign minor league deals.
    If I'm not mistaken, under the new CBA, it's an automatic clause in minor league deals. But I don't know the exact specifics...
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  9. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D. View Post
    Yes, if he's not on the major league roster by May 1st, he can opt to become a FA and sign with any team.

    The only problem with bringing him up is who do you boot from the rotation? Doubront has pitched well, and Bard has a lot of potential. The other guys are all signed for good money.

    Cook is dominating AAA hitters, but has a career ERA over 4.50 (in Colorado, yes, but also in the NL).
    Exactly! It's no doubt a nice problem to have. If I remember correctly, Cook signed a minor league deal with the Red Sox over a major league team with another team. So maybe he can be convinced not to opt out on May 1st but to remain with the Sox until at least May 31st and if the Sox then still don't have an opening in the rotation, he can join another team?
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  10. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    I didn't say I was an expert. Nor did I mean to suggest that you have no clue. But explain this: How can a team be consistently among the top 3 offensive teams when -as you suggest - they only hit well against bad pitchers but not against good or even mediocre pitchers? Please explain your thinking.

    Also, feel free to answer the other questions I asked in my previous post. Who are the players the Red Sox held on to too long?
    Well I do think that you shouldn't hold blocked prospects till they are 25 in the minors. they did that a lot even youk came up at 25.

    And anderson, lavarnway and middlebrooks are not really young either.

    My opinion is that if you don't have a place in the lineup for a top prospect at age 23 trade him. all star players are in the majors at age 23, most of them are starters. After that age they don't become any more valuable. A 27 yo minor leaguer is basically worthless. so give them a shot early and if they are blocked trade them for a more needed position. you have to consider value and also developement there. It doesn't help a players motivation to rot in AAA ball for years if they know they will be blocked till they re 30.

    of course you need replacement but if I had a star player I would go for young and high upside players instead of letting a guy in his mid 20s getting old and demotivated at AAA ball.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  11. #286
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    While it's never a good idea to let a good player rot in the minors, it also doesn't make sense to rush a guy. Some guys are ready at 21...most of those guys are superstars. Most aren't ready at that point, and take until 23, 24, or older (especially catchers). Plus, you can't expect to develop just stars...there's huge value in developing average regulars and even backups and 6th inning MR's in your system. Having those guys cheap means you have more money to spend elsewhere.

    Middlebrooks is 23 and still has only a handful of AAA at bats to his name. He'll see the big leagues this year at some point. He's right where you want him to be.

    Lavarnway is 24, and if he weren't a catcher, he'd be in the big leagues right now. Catchers take longer. He'll be up with the big club at some point, and has a good chance of holding down the DH/backup C role next year.

    Lars Anderson is 24. The reason he's only now getting a taste of the bigs isn't so much that he's been blocked (which he is) but it's the fact that he really hasn't impressed at AAA yet. Maybe he's figured it out, maybe not. I don't get the impression he was untradable anytime in the last 2 years (in fact, they tried to trade him last July for a pitcher), so if another team offered something decent for him, they'd take him.

    A lot depends on if a player played college ball or not, too...Middlebrooks is 23 and knocking on the door. Brentz is 23 and in Portland. Same with Vitek. Alex Wilson is 25 and had 4 games in AAA before this season.

    Blanket statements about when a prospect should be "ready" are a slippery slope.
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  12. #287
    they are not too old yet. 23,24 is still OK.

    but their time is coming. I think they should make it either this year or next year.

    another 2 years of up/down between AAA and MLB and their value would lower a lot. now is the time to show for them.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  13. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    Well I do think that you shouldn't hold blocked prospects till they are 25 in the minors. they did that a lot even youk came up at 25.

    And anderson, lavarnway and middlebrooks are not really young either.

    My opinion is that if you don't have a place in the lineup for a top prospect at age 23 trade him. all star players are in the majors at age 23, most of them are starters. After that age they don't become any more valuable. A 27 yo minor leaguer is basically worthless. so give them a shot early and if they are blocked trade them for a more needed position. you have to consider value and also developement there. It doesn't help a players motivation to rot in AAA ball for years if they know they will be blocked till they re 30.

    of course you need replacement but if I had a star player I would go for young and high upside players instead of letting a guy in his mid 20s getting old and demotivated at AAA ball.
    Sorry, but the Red Sox don't let there prospects rot in the minors until they are 30 or 27. Not every prospect has the same developmental curve. Yes, the Red Sox are, generally speaking, are conservative with their prospects, not rushing them to the bigs. But you have to keep in mind that there's a difference between bringing up a prospect to a perennial contender or bringing them up in Houston or SD (no offense to those teams and their fans).

    Youkilis's contract is up after the year (team option) and he will then be replaced by WMB (at 3B). But this offseason, should the Red Sox have counted on Middlebrooks, who by then had a total of 60 PA and struggled mightily in AAA (.161 .200 .268) while not showing the strike zone judgment he seems to show early on this season? Should they have traded WMB and then have to search for a 3B next offseason?

    Lavarnway is already 25 and his bat is more than big league ready. BUT: It's not that the Red Sox don't bring him up because he is blocked or they hang on to some declining player, but because they want to see his catching skills improve (and for that he needs regular playing time). Keep in mind that Lavarnway didn't become a catcher until his sophomore year at Yale.

    Kevin Youkilis was rather old when finally called up, but he just had a slower development path than others. Pedroia was 22 when called up, Lester was 22, Ells was 23, Papelbon and Bard were both 24.

    When they signed Gonzalez they did trade one of their top prospects (Rizzo) because he was blocked. They also tried to trade another prospect (Anderson) because he was blocked, but his trade value was at an all time low.

    Again, the Red Sox might be a bit more conservative with calling up their prospects, but players just have less margin for error in Boston. And hence the Sox like to keep them longer in AAA where they get regular playing time rather have them on the bench or struggling too much. I honestly don't see anything wrong with that. Nor do I think the Red Sox hold on particularly long to "older" players on the major league team. Quite the opposite actually. They have always been willing to let players walk (Damon, Pedro...) because they did not want to give them contracts that would put the team in a situation where they would have to play declining players.
    Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 04-27-2012 at 03:00 PM.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  14. #289
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    so, how the hell do we get rid of Crawford. The medical staff says its a strained lig, but i am willing to bet it is somewhat torn. I know we wont be able to get rid of him easy, but how do we do it?

  15. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    so, how the hell do we get rid of Crawford. The medical staff says its a strained lig, but i am willing to bet it is somewhat torn. I know we wont be able to get rid of him easy, but how do we do it?
    how? find a team who wants to take on a 6 year, $120 mill contract

  16. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    so, how the hell do we get rid of Crawford. The medical staff says its a strained lig, but i am willing to bet it is somewhat torn. I know we wont be able to get rid of him easy, but how do we do it?
    If he's not healthy enough to play, there's absolutely no way. Even if he's healthy, you're talking about having to eat 90% of his contract.

    At this point, they just have to not plan on him contributing, but hope that he eventually gets healthy and does.
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  17. #292
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    In addition to the Disabled List, one place the Sox rack up the dollar signs is at the beer stand. The Sox apparently charge the highest price per ounce for beer in baseball. (Link)
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  18. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    so, how the hell do we get rid of Crawford. The medical staff says its a strained lig, but i am willing to bet it is somewhat torn. I know we wont be able to get rid of him easy, but how do we do it?
    Crawford and his salary should have gone to Chicago with Theo-- now that would have been significant compensation.

    Oh by the way, five in a row and another double digit run game. Still worried about Youk: He walked twice but struck out thrice.
    "I believe in the Church of Baseball. I tried all the major religions and most of the minor ones. I've worshipped Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms and Isadora Duncan. I know things. For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance." ~Ron Shelton, from Bull Durham

  19. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximum jack View Post
    Crawford and his salary should have gone to Chicago with Theo-- now that would have been significant compensation.

    Oh by the way, five in a row and another double digit run game. Still worried about Youk: He walked twice but struck out thrice.
    The offense is killing everybody right now. like it!

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    unfortunately Tony, you will need to back that up with stats
    I disagree.
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  21. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyK View Post
    I disagree.
    haha touche

  22. #297
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    very good win tonight

  23. #298
    nice winning streak by the red sox. just 2.5 games back now.

    the pitching remains a concern but has worked better.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  24. #299
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    After 20 games the Sox are above-average in hitting but struggling in pitching. The keys to making the playoffs will be lack of injuries, how well Buchholz-Bard-Doubront do, and finding one or two more decent relievers. Ortiz and Sweeney are off to tremendous starts. The twenty five home runs are a nice surprise.
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  25. #300
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    I’m scratching my head on this;

    shortstop prospect Jose Iglesias has been called up from Triple A Pawtucket and will be available to play tonight because Youkilis isn’t. To make room for Iglesias. the Red Sox optioned reliever Junichi Tazawa to Pawtucket, leaving them with 11 pitchers, a roster condition that isn’t ideal.
    http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sp...-cook-in-limbo

    I understand needing a backup infielder with Youkilis out, but wouldn’t it make more sense to call up Middlebrooks who is hitting .348/.396/.708 instead of Iglesias who is hitting, .200/.274/.212?

    IMO with Igesias hitting so poorly in AAA I’d think it would be more fitting to send him to AA to help his development rather then a bench role with the big club!

    And why send Tazawa down? Tazawa has been one of our better releivers!

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