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Thread: 2012 Red Sox Season Thread

  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    what the hell is wrong with AGone?
    Don't blame Adrian, blame God.
    "I believe in the Church of Baseball. I tried all the major religions and most of the minor ones. I've worshipped Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms and Isadora Duncan. I know things. For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance." ~Ron Shelton, from Bull Durham

  2. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by DaaBoTownSox View Post
    Maybe, but Aviles has done an outstanding job manning SS to this point.
    I agree completely. As you know I am not a fan of keeping players down too long (to me there is no reason to keep a .900 ops for more than a year in the minors) but Iglesias is young and has not mastered aaa yet. Let him master that level first. I think aviles is a good solution for this season and also 2013. Then Iglesias should be ready. If not he probably never will be.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  3. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    I agree completely. As you know I am not a fan of keeping players down too long (to me there is no reason to keep a .900 ops for more than a year in the minors) but Iglesias is young and has not mastered aaa yet. Let him master that level first. I think aviles is a good solution for this season and also 2013. Then Iglesias should be ready. If not he probably never will be.
    If he doesn't start hitting, it's hard for me to see him at the MLB level.

  4. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaaBoTownSox View Post
    If he doesn't start hitting, it's hard for me to see him at the MLB level.
    Yeah, that's the big fear with him. He's young, and doesn't have that much pro experience, but if he can't hit, say, .250, he's not going to start.

    On the bright side, as a "low-side" for him, even if he never hits, his D is good enough to make him a utility infielder and late-game defensive replacement. There's a little value in that, and he could be that already.
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  5. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D. View Post
    Yeah, that's the big fear with him. He's young, and doesn't have that much pro experience, but if he can't hit, say, .250, he's not going to start.

    On the bright side, as a "low-side" for him, even if he never hits, his D is good enough to make him a utility infielder and late-game defensive replacement. There's a little value in that, and he could be that already.
    Even though he has excellent D, i've heard that wouldn't be enough for him to be a utility man. He has to be able to hit a little.

  6. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaaBoTownSox View Post
    Even though he has excellent D, i've heard that wouldn't be enough for him to be a utility man. He has to be able to hit a little.
    The jury is still out on his hitting ability, but I wouldn't give up so quickly. Iglesias has tons of talents, the ability to make adjustments and is still very young. He could still turn into a decent hitter. Just because he is so overhyped doesn't mean we can't be patient with him.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  7. #332
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    Will Middlebrooks looks very good since being called up. If he keeps this going there is no way Youk sees the field and if he does, its a travesty

  8. #333
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    Aaron Cook is one tough SOB. Did anyone else see the gash in his knee? OMG, then he gets back out on the mound. THAT is the toughness this team and pitching staff needs.

  9. #334
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    this one is getting out of hand in the 4th. ugh!

  10. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    this one is getting out of hand in the 4th. ugh!
    O's are a tough team i think your front office needs to start to make some moves or you could be out of this at the All star break.

  11. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaysFan_98 View Post
    O's are a tough team i think your front office needs to start to make some moves or you could be out of this at the All star break.
    I can think of one move they could make. It doesn't even need any roster adjustments...
    Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 05-05-2012 at 12:51 PM.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  12. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    I can think of one move they could make. It doesn't even need any roster adjustments...
    Fire Bobby V?

  13. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    I can think of one move they could make. It doesn't even need any roster adjustments...
    that makes no sense. Go ahead and defend your statement.

    I blame Theo and the front office...and the front office puppet Ben Cherrington. They have assembled a terrible team that are over paid and have a sense of entitlement. Enlighten us on how this is Bobby - Vs fault.

  14. #339
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    You know, the Sox should probably move Bard to the bullpen. After all, they have this GREAT pitcher named Aaron Cook just ready to step in and dominate!
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  15. #340
    GD, I wish this team would make up its mind whether or not it wants to be good. . . wins 6 in a row and loses the next 4?!?!?!? WTH?!?!?!?!?

    Baltimore just might be #1 on my most hated list right now. . . but only slightly.

  16. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D. View Post
    You know, the Sox should probably move Bard to the bullpen. After all, they have this GREAT pitcher named Aaron Cook just ready to step in and dominate!
    Absolutely, I'm glad you came around to this idea!

    In all seriousness I've been a proponent to moving Bard to the pen, but after watching today's game, Cook looked awful. However, Cook claims that his knee was bothering him and was pitching with all arm which may have contributed to the bad pitching after the second inning.

    I'd like to see him pitch another game when he's healthy before thinking he can be a solid starter for us. But at this point there's no way I'd move Bard to the pen for Cook.

    Right now, to me Doubrant and Bard appear to be our best starters even though both have not been great they pretty much look better then any of our other starters so far.

  17. #342
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    I just have this to say...

    WHY HAVEN'T WE SIGNED ROY OSWALT???????????????????????????????????????????
    Man, do I *HATE* the Yankees!!!!!!

  18. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer View Post
    that makes no sense. Go ahead and defend your statement.

    I blame Theo and the front office...and the front office puppet Ben Cherrington. They have assembled a terrible team that are over paid and have a sense of entitlement. Enlighten us on how this is Bobby - Vs fault.
    But that is exactly what Terry Francona was blamed and then fired for! That he couldn't reach these overpaid players anymore and take away that sense of entitlement and form a unity where everybody supports everybody instead of drinking beer in the clubhouse. In was brought the genius mind of Bobby Valentine to change the clubhouse culture and make the team forget about September. Let's look at what he's done so far:

    - Despite his many, many words about how he reinvented spring training, the Sox have begun the Season as poorly as in the last couple of years.
    - Despite his infallibility, he already created a (potential) rift between himself and the team (or at least some of the players) by publicly discrediting and of the hardest working and most respected players in the organization.
    - Despite his fantastic people's skills, he thought an appropriate reaction to the Fenway crowd booing him would be a tip of the hat.
    - He obviously cares so deeply, he almost handed in the wrong lineup because he had no clue whether the opposing pitcher was a LHP or a RHP. He had to be corrected last minute by Jarrod Saltalamacchia.
    - His lineup and in-game management - supposedly the one talent of Valentine that is so superb that it should make us forget about his other character flaws - has been, well to be honest, less than impressive. A lot less.
    - The Red Sox are 11-15, dead last in the AL East, and 7 games behind the Rays!
    - The Sox couldn't win crucial home series against the O's (again) and the Oakland A's!

    It isn't so much a single thing that he screwed up, as it is his incapability of turning the team from "last September"-Red Sox into "last May to August"-Red Sox.
    That being said, it is of course not his fault that Crawford, Ellsbury, Baily, Kalish, Jenks, Lackey and Matsuzaka are on the DL (nor is that anybody else's fault really). But I challenge you and anybody else to name a single decision or event or anything that Valentine has made that suggests he deserves to be the manager of our beloved Boston Red Sox!

    Look, I've never been shy about disliking Valentine and I honestly don't know if I'd be calling for the manager's head at this point if Lamont or Sveum had been named manager. I stated at the beginning of the season that Valentine is now a part of our favorite team and thus should be given a chance. As far as I am concerned he has had his chance and is very close to have blown it! He was brought in the stir things up, bring in a new management style (not that one was needed) and change things. 26 games into the season he has miserably failed at that! Let's talk again after another 14 games (after a quarter of the season has passed), but up to now these Red Sox are as painful to watch as they were in September last year!

    And as a final point, I don't think that the group of players assembled is that bad - in fact, I think that they are quite good (and yes I can back up that statement with numbers!). So the fact that they perform this badly as a team, I can't but blame on either bad luck or bad management (or to be fair some combination). There is absolutely nothing you can do about bad luck (except for praying maybe). But there is something you can do about bad management.
    Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 05-06-2012 at 02:52 AM.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  19. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
    And as a final point, I don't think that the group of players assembled is that bad - in fact, I think that they are quite good (and yes I can back up that statement with numbers!). So the fact that they perform this badly as a team, I can't but blame on either bad luck or bad management (or to be fair some combination). There is absolutely nothing you can do about bad luck (except for praying maybe). But there is something you can do about bad management.
    In fact, I already partially did in an earlier post:
    Here's some numbers to look at when comparing the two teams (career numbers (wOBA and wRC+) and projections for 2012 (Bill James and ZiPS)):
    Attachment 107177
    Ignoring the Rangers lineup below and just looking at the Red Sox side of the equation, this is clearly a group of players that should be among the most dangerous group of hitters.

    Looking at the starting pitching, the argument becomes a bit less convincing, but still stands.
    Jon Lester (27): Career ERA: 3.57, Career FIP: 3.66, Career k/BB: 2.43. While not "Ace"-numbers in the sense of those of Verlander, Halladay, or Felix, he is clearly an elite pitcher.
    Josh Beckett (31): Career ERA: 3.85, Career FIP: 3.70, Career k/BB: 3.1. While not "Ace"-numbers in the sense of those of Verlander, Halladay, or Felix, he is clearly an elite pitcher.
    Clay Buchholz (27): Career ERA: 3.95, Career FIP: 4.29, Career k/BB: 1.8. Solid numbers. He has shown in 2010 and in stretches in 2011 that he has the stuff to be an elite pitcher.
    Daniel Bard (26): His career as a starter is still an ongoing experiment with flashes of brilliance and outings in which he looked more like John Lackey.
    Felix Doubront (24): Too early to judge, but if his minor league numbers are any indication, he should be one of the better no. 5 starters in the majors.

    All in all a very talented group, that if performing close to what they are capable of should be among the better rotations in baseball.

    And that leaves the clusterfuck of a bullpen the Sox have. That's a topic for another post...
    Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 05-06-2012 at 02:12 AM.
    Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

    Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

  20. #345
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    After two terrible months, maybe it's time to admit this team just isn't very good, and probably isn't going to get better in the short term. I keep hoping they will, but so far, they haven't.

    Maybe it's just me, but I can't remember a year when I've cared less about the Sox than I have so far this season. Some of that is my own personal stuff (I have a new baby and dropped cable TV), but between last September, the mess of an off-season, and now this awful start, I find it hard to care more than the team (players and management) do.

    That being said, I imagine I'll end up at Fenway sometime this summer with tickets I paid face value for, something that has literally NEVER happened in my entire life.
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  21. #346
    Congrats on the baby, Mike! I tend to agree with you regarding your interest in this team. I used to be fanatical about score-checking (live in Denver and only watch games when they're on nationally), but that's pretty much gone by the wayside. Just so frustrating to see this team getting on a roll and then losing the last four.

    I think they can be a very good team, but so far they've shown little to indicate this.

  22. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9&10 View Post
    Congrats on the baby, Mike! I tend to agree with you regarding your interest in this team. I used to be fanatical about score-checking (live in Denver and only watch games when they're on nationally), but that's pretty much gone by the wayside. Just so frustrating to see this team getting on a roll and then losing the last four.

    I think they can be a very good team, but so far they've shown little to indicate this.
    Thanks...he's almost 4 1/2 months, and already has a bunch of Red Sox swag! Oh, and "the kid's" name is Teddy!

    I used to watch the games almost every weeknight on NESN. We dropped cable (just don't watch enough) and the Sox games are the one thing I can honestly say I miss. That being said, the way they're playing this year, I might have tuned out already even if I still had cable.

    I agree that this team COULD be very good....and with all those guys on the DL, they are playing at about 2/3 capacity right now, but they've been very frustrating. On days they hit, they don't pitch. On days they get good starts, the bullpen sucks. On days they score a bunch of runs, the starter get shelled. They're inconsistent in a very frustrating way, and you sometimes get the impression that we care far more than the players, manager, and ownership/front office.
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  23. #348
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    On Valentine: I just don't feel like he's "all in". He seems far more interested in being on the radio in NY, being in the papers and TV in Boston, and basically never shutting his big yap no matter how stupid or counterproductive the stuff gushing out of it is than he does in getting this team to gel or figuring out how to manage bullpen usage.

    I mean, the Sox ownership obviously signed off on him having a radio show in NY. That's absurd. What good could ever come of that?

    There's a reason this guy hasn't managed in the big leagues in a decade!
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  24. #349
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    Congratulations on your new baby Mike. Is Teddy your first child?

  25. #350
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    I’m not defending Bobby V but I’m not advocating firing him either as yet. He’s made some mistakes, but what manager doesn’t? For me the jury is still out on his management.

    I do agree with Schilling in that a manager is more about managing people more so then field managing such as when to bunt or change pitchers etc. In other words the manager needs to motivate his players and they need to trust their manager else some players may not play as well for that manager if they don’t like him. And not having inside clubhouse information, I’m not sure how the players currently feel about BV.

    IMO the primary reason this team is losing so much is poor pitching and lately a slumping offense. But there’s also injuries to key players that hurt our chances of winning as well which is not BV’s fault.

    So far our pitching has improved in May but our offense in May has been markedly down.

    In April we hit; BA .281 OBP .336 SLG .474 OPS .811 WOBA .349

    In May so far we’ve hit; BA .209 OBP .283 SLG .311 OPS .594 WOBA .264

    In April our pitching was ERA 5.54 WHIP 1.51 FIP 4.83 xFIP 4.20 BABIP 3.09

    In May our pitching is ERA 4.95 WHIP 1.28 FIP 3.11 xFIP 3.40 BABIP 3.08

    I believe that if we had all our players healthy and they played to their there capabilities we’d be one of the better teams. And I still believe it’s early enough in the season that they can turn things around but they need to start winning soon.
    Last edited by Dogdaze; 05-06-2012 at 08:33 AM.

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