John Niese -- 5 yrs @ $25 million?

**EasilyFound** · 04-04-2012, 05:40 PM

Really? Maybe the nose job will improve his performance? Not sure this makes sense.

**milladrive** · 04-05-2012, 03:57 AM

This is such a friggin' joke! Not only is signing a pitcher for five years ridiculous, but paying Jon Niese as if he's a main cog on a winning team is way out of line. Now, not that I'm wishing injury on him, but frankly, an injury-riddled five years would most likely be the only way to hit the hammer on the nail that's meant for the Wilpons' foreheads.

Jesuit Priest. This is just disgusting.

**NJYankeeFan** · 04-05-2012, 04:20 AM

Locking up your best pitcher for 5 years at $5mm per bothers you?

**theAmazingMet** · 04-05-2012, 05:47 AM

If Neise progresses this is a good signing. 5 Million for a SP in todays game is a bargain.

**theAmazingMet** · 04-05-2012, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan

Locking up your best pitcher for 5 years at $5mm per bothers you?

Hes not our best pitcher, but he is the only one currently on the staff who has the highest ceiling.

**mandrake** · 04-05-2012, 10:40 AM

It is a lot of money to us ! But Santana is making that money in one year, not five. It is not a Jason Bay signing, which could be the worst ever (well, next to Ollie) in franchise history.

**jjpm74** · 04-05-2012, 10:43 AM

Whether or not Niese performs, this is a very smart move on the part of the Mets. It shows that that are willing to rebuild and spend some money. Say what you will about Niese, but the guy has a lot of talent and if this does work out, it will be nice to see some home grown pitching stars.

**Strawman** · 04-05-2012, 10:51 AM

Makes no sense at all to pay Niese $25M - nice pitcher, 4th starter. Alderson seems to be schizophrenic.

**CokeMachineGlow** · 04-05-2012, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Strawman

Makes no sense at all to pay Niese $25M - nice pitcher, 4th starter. Alderson seems to be schizophrenic.

He's a mid-rotation pitcher with upside. The money isn't anything to scoff at, but it isn't a lot at all in baseball reality. 4th starter? No, he isn't at all. He's improved his peripherals substantially and his rate statistics have been steadily improving as well. More strikeouts, less walks, more groundballs, but a bloated ERA. If you look solely at ERA than you are the schizophrenic one.

**CokeMachineGlow** · 04-05-2012, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by milladrive

This is such a friggin' joke! Not only is signing a pitcher for five years ridiculous, but paying Jon Niese as if he's a main cog on a winning team is way out of line. Now, not that I'm wishing injury on him, but frankly, an injury-riddled five years would most likely be the only way to hit the hammer on the nail that's meant for the Wilpons' foreheads.

Jesuit Priest. This is just disgusting.

Except Niese is the best pitcher on the team and has steadily improved yearly -- to the point where his peripheral statistics have been around top-of-the-rotation tier. This isn't a joke, but it's a bargain for a good player. If this were Pelfrey, though.....I would have to agree.

**Shea Knight** · 04-05-2012, 12:16 PM

I like the signing, it's not an unreasonable amount of money to lock up a decent young pitcher.

So not a bad signing (UNLIKE Pagan for Torres/Ramirez, Torres has just left the game with another leg injury--surprise! An injured Mets outfielder...WHAT are the odds?)

SIGH.............

**EasilyFound** · 04-05-2012, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow

He's a mid-rotation pitcher with upside. The money isn't anything to scoff at, but it isn't a lot at all in baseball reality. 4th starter? No, he isn't at all. He's improved his peripherals substantially and his rate statistics have been steadily improving as well. More strikeouts, less walks, more groundballs, but a bloated ERA. If you look solely at ERA than you are the schizophrenic one.

Do I recall correctly that Niese led the NL or maybe even MLB in being the unluckiest pitcher? Or am I thinking of some other pitcher? Help me out, please.

**milladrive** · 04-05-2012, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by NJYankeeFan

Locking up your best pitcher for 5 years at $5mm per bothers you?

Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow

Except Niese is the best pitcher on the team and has steadily improved yearly -- to the point where his peripheral statistics have been around top-of-the-rotation tier. This isn't a joke, but it's a bargain for a good player. If this were Pelfrey, though.....I would have to agree.

Wow, two people who actually think Niese is the Mets best pitcher. Fascinating. Besides, I don't believe in signing pitchers for more than three years tops. Two at a time is appropriate, imo.

And Pelfrey shouldn't even be in the 2012 equation. Again mho.

Originally Posted by EasilyFound

Do I recall correctly that Niese led the NL or maybe even MLB in being the unluckiest pitcher? Or am I thinking of some other pitcher? Help me out, please.

Exactly. Give that kind of money to R.A. Dickey.

Originally Posted by Strawman

Makes no sense at all to pay Niese $25M - nice pitcher, 4th starter. Alderson seems to be schizophrenic.

Thank you.

I would've MUCH rather have picked up a competent centerfielder than pay a third-string starter that kind of money. We NEED a centerfielder.

I still think this contract is ridiculous. For twice the money we could've kept Reyes. ...and it would've been worth it.

**CokeMachineGlow** · 04-05-2012, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by EasilyFound

Do I recall correctly that Niese led the NL or maybe even MLB in being the unluckiest pitcher? Or am I thinking of some other pitcher? Help me out, please.

Don't even have a clue about what you're talking about. Great job dancing around the post and posting something extremely irrelevant.

**CokeMachineGlow** · 04-05-2012, 05:23 PM

Wow, two people who actually think Niese is the Mets best pitcher. Fascinating. Besides, I don't believe in signing pitchers for more than three years tops. Two at a time is appropriate, imo.

And Pelfrey shouldn't even be in the 2012 equation. Again mho.

I was talking about last year. Santana is better at the moment, but he won't be in a year or two. I don't get the posters on this board -- I write out a post that concisely shows why Niese deserved that money, and everybody just beats around the bush and doesn't fully refute my arguments. I'm not gonna take you seriously if you respond to my post with - "Wow, two people who actually think Niese is the best pitcher. Fascinating."

Wow, two people respond to my posts with non-existent arguments. Fascinating.

**milladrive** · 04-05-2012, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow

Don't even have a clue about what you're talking about. Great job dancing around the post and posting something extremely irrelevant.

I think he has a clue. And I replied accordingly. I'm pretty sure he was referring to Dickey.

Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow

I was talking about last year. Santana is better at the moment, but he won't be in a year or two. I don't get the posters on this board -- I write out a post that concisely shows why Niese deserved that money, and everybody just beats around the bush and doesn't fully refute my arguments. I'm not gonna take you seriously if you respond to my post with - "Wow, two people who actually think Niese is the best pitcher. Fascinating."

Frankly, CMG, I care not if you take anyone seriously. The statement you made about Niese is as unprovable and opinionated as any of those non-existent arguments to which you allude. I didn't really feel it was necessary to list all the reasons why Jon Niese is not the best Mets starter.

Wow, two people respond to my posts with non-existent arguments. Fascinating.

And please don't mock me, nor any other member. Thank you.

**CokeMachineGlow** · 04-05-2012, 05:48 PM

Un-provable...how?

He had career high K/9, BB/9, GB%, FIP, xFIP, HR/9, WAR. Compare those statistics to 2011 Ricky Romero, who got an even bigger contract and has comparable statistics to Niese. Guess what? He's the opening day starter for the Blue Jays and is widely considered a top-of-the-rotation pitcher. The only thing questionable about Niese is his durability.. Will he be able to stay healthy during the tenure of his contract? That, is un-provable.

**milladrive** · 04-05-2012, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow

The only thing questionable about Niese is his durability.. Will he be able to stay healthy during the tenure of his contract? That, is un-provable.

Which is precisely why I said I don't believe in giving pitchers of the 21st Century contracts longer than two years, maybe three.

And it's really easy to compare pitchers with one another. It's meaningless. Besides, that career high you speak of may indeed be just that! Five years for a pitcher of questionable endurance and talent is, imo, a bad move, especially when the Mets need a competent centerfielder.

**CokeMachineGlow** · 04-05-2012, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by milladrive

Which is precisely why I said I don't believe in giving pitchers of the 21st Century contracts longer than two years, maybe three.

And it's really easy to compare pitchers with one another. It's meaningless. Besides, that career high you speak of may indeed be just that! Five years for a pitcher of questionable endurance and talent is, imo, a bad move, especially when the Mets need a competent centerfielder.

Players don't tend to meet their peak at 25....

I guess were in such a dark Mets age that considering Niese is a bright building block for the future is a stretch. I'm not gonna keep repeating my arguments until they're tired.

**milladrive** · 04-05-2012, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow

Players don't tend to meet their peak at 25....

That's very true.

I guess were in such a dark Mets age that considering Niese is a bright building block for the future is a stretch.

I don't disagree that Niese is a terrific building block. In fact, I fully agree. But don't make him out to be the next Nolan Ryan. If you wish to think he's the best pitcher in the Mets current rotation, you have a right to your opinion. I think you're mistaken. And I merely think giving an unproven 25yo starter a five-year contract is not an ideal deal.

We can agree to disagree on that point if you wish.

**CokeMachineGlow** · 04-05-2012, 06:29 PM

Let's not over-exaggerate. He isn't the next big thing, but locking up a young mid-rotation starter to a cheap, team-friendly deal sounds reasonable to me. I'm just irritated by the gross misconception that Niese is a back-of-the-rotation starter.

We'll agree to disagree, but I'm still interested in hearing the opinions of others on the topic. As hostile as most of you perceive me to be, I'm very open to debate and other ideas.

**milladrive** · 04-05-2012, 06:36 PM

Fair enough.

I'll say this again, though. The fact that Fredo and Jeffie have the money to give 25yo Niese such a lengthy contract at $5M a year, to me, seems as if they now have some money to spend on the team, after paying their fine and moving on. I have a feeling we both hope that's true.

**CokeMachineGlow** · 04-05-2012, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by milladrive

Fair enough.

I'll say this again, though. The fact that Fredo and Jeffie have the money to give 25yo Niese such a lengthy contract at $5M a year, to me, seems as if they now have some money to spend on the team, after paying their fine and moving on. I have a feeling we both hope that's true.

Hopefully that's the case. I think the most realistic reason is that Alderson had some cap left after he implemented his strict austerity measures, so he decided to lock Niese up.