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Thread: Negro League BBF HOF second chance

  1. #1
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    Negro League BBF HOF second chance

    This will be one of three second chance round elections this week. What we'll do for the second chance election is a Yes/No vote requiring the greater of 6 or 75% of the votes to induct. The election will be limited to the listed nominees. The elections will only be open for a week--but there will be at least three or four days for discussion and new nominations. You can abstain from an entire ballot (player or contributor), but if you vote in that portion of the ballot, only the guys you expressly vote yes for get credit for a positive vote. The others in that section of the ballot will be considered to have gotten a "no" vote. There will be no limits on how many nominees you can vote for . I will also provide the nomination discussions for the nominees. The deadline for suggesting nominees is twelve hours before the election begins.


    In this case, the election will not begin until Saturday, April 14 at 7 am EDT, and will end at 7 am EDT April 21. Nominations close 12 hours before the election begins, or April 13 at 7 pm EDT. Ballots not cast within the stated election time frame will not count.


    The Negro Leagues have the following already inducted:
    Inducted Players (41): John Beckwith, Cool Papa Bell, Ray Brown, Willard Brown, Perucho Cepeda, Oscar Charleston, Andy Cooper, Leon Day, Ray Dandridge, Martin Dihigo, John Donaldson, Willie Foster, Josh Gibson, Frank Grant, Pete Hill, Monte Irvin, Grant “Home Run” Johnson, Buck Leonard, Pop Lloyd, Dick Lundy, Biz Mackey, Jose Mendez, Bill Monroe, Dobie Moore, Alejandro Oms, Satchel Paige, Spottswood Poles, Cannonball Dick Redding, Bullet Joe Rogan, Louis Santop, Chino Smith, Hilton Smith, Turkey Stearnes, Mule Suttles, Ben Taylor, Cristobal Torriente, Quincy Trouppe, Willie Wells, Smoky Joe Williams, Jud Wilson

    Inducted Contributors (8): Ed Bolden, Rube Foster, Vic Harris, Buck O’Neill, Cum Posey, C. I. Taylor, Sol White, J. L. Wilkinson
    The list of nominees at present is:

    Players
    Newt Allen
    Walter Ball
    Sam Bankhead
    Chet Brewer
    Bus Clarkson
    Francisco Coimbre
    Judy Johnson
    Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe

    Contributors
    Newt Allen
    Gus Greenlee
    Effa Manley
    Alex Pompez
    Frank Warfield
    Last edited by jalbright; 04-13-2012 at 04:55 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  2. #2
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    I made this pitch for Frank Warfield to be honored among the contributors from the Negro Leagues:

    Frank Warfield

    He had a fine playing career, but added a very successful managing career.

    From page 815 of Riley's Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Leagues:

    He was a talented player with a fiery temperament.
    [A]s a successful manager, [h]e proved to be a clever strategist, guiding Hilldale to consecutive Eastern Colored League pennants in 1924-1925 including a [Negro] World Series victory in the latter season. He also managed the Baltimore Black Sox to the only American Negro League pennant in 1929. His . . . temper made him quick to engage in arguments with umpires or to castigate a pleyer in view of spectators . . . . Regardless of his management methods, his results were good, and his success extended to Cuba, where he managed the 1924 Santa Clara team to the championship . . . . [One of the key moves he made in Hilldale was to move] Judy Johnson from shortstop to third base and put light-hitting but far-ranging and smooth-fielding Jake Stephens at shortstop.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  3. #3
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    Alex Pompez as a contributor for the Negro Leagues with this:

    I had wondered what Alex Pompez had done to deserve induction into Cooperstown, and Brian McKenna has started a thread in the Negro Leagues forum which is dedicated to Pompez and answers that question. There's more than I'll post here, especially on Pompez involvement in the numbers racket, which is how Pompez made much of his money. The rest:

    Alex Pompez

    Alejandro Pompez
    Antonio Moreno

    Alejandro Pompez was born on May 3, 1890 in Key West, Florida. Alejandro was known throughout much of his baseball career as “Alex” or “Alexander.” Various dates of birth have been cited by researchers. This date stems from his Social Security death notice and by his WWI and WWII registration cards (though the WWI citation notes an inaccurate birth year of 1885).

    Pompez befriended a local white businessman named Nat Strong. Strong controlled a great deal of sports scheduling (booking) throughout the New York City area due to the fact that he controlled scheduling at many popular venues including Ebbets Field, Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds. Strong also used his pull to virtually bankrupt the Brooklyn Royal Giants; he then swept in and purchased the club.

    The relationship was a mutually beneficial one. Strong gained access into the Latin American market through Pompez and in return Pompez gained Strong’s experience and contacts and thus increased opportunities.

    Pompez became the strongest link between Latin ballplayers and organized black and white baseball. As Adrian Burgos stated in Playing America’s Game,

    His work as a team owner, Negro-league executive, and talent scout places him alongside Rube Foster, Gus Greenlee, J.L. Wilkerson, Effa Manley, and Cum Posey as one of black baseball’s most significant executives. Considered within baseball’s transnational circuit, his longevity and contribution stand alone. He was present at the creation of Negro-league baseball and was there at its end, and as a major-league scout, he helped shape its historical legacy.
    In early 1916 Pompez amassed a squad he called the New York Cubans. In the early spring they toured Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. The use of the Cubans name particularly incensed Abel Linares, who operated out of Chicago. He had long ago formed a squad of the same name. In fact, Linares brought his squad to Puerto Rico to battle for the honor of the name in March 1916. Unfortunately for him, Pompez’s team won 3-2 and refused a rematch.

    In 1917 the squad’s name was changed to the Havana Cuban Stars and the following year to the now-familiar New York Cuban Stars. They were known by the latter name until the club disbanded in 1950 save one season, 1921, as the All Cubans.

    Throughout his time in baseball, Pompez traveled to the Caribbean every winter to scout players and organize contests. He also had his players scout for him during their travels throughout Latin America and the United States. The Cuban Stars were strictly a club of Latin players until 1935 when they joined the NNL. The Cuban Stars was one of the main importers of Latin talent, fielding most of the top stars of the day including perhaps the premier player Martin DiHigo, who first joined the club in 1922.

    The Cuban Stars were subsidized by Pompez’s lottery money, of which there was plenty. Pompez was a big spender who lived in the top neighborhood in Harlem, drove the best cars and wore the finest clothes. Pompez lived at 409 Edgecombe Avenue in the exclusive community at the top of Sugar Hill.

    Gamblers like Pompez were involved with organized black baseball from the beginning. Others involved during the early 1920s include Tenny Blount (Detroit Stars), Dick Kent (STL Stars) and Baron Wilkins (NY Bacharachs). Soon Smitty Lucas (Philadelphia Tigers), Ike Washington (Bacharachs) and William Mosely (Detroit Stars) would follow. As many know, gambling capital also seeded the revised Negro National League in the 1930s. Such men as Gus Greenlee, Abe Manley, Rufus Jackson, Pompez and Jim Semler provided the funds. (Pompez and Greenlee were friends. The occasionally travelt together to Cuba to watch ball games and Pompez also helped him get into the numbers business.)

    The Cuban Stars remained independent like all eastern clubs until joining the Eastern Colored League in 1923. By the early 1920s, Pompez secured a lease at the Dyckman Oval, located at 204th Street & Nagle Avenue just outside Harlem, as the club’s permanent home. The club played in the following leagues:

    Eastern Colored League, 1923-28
    American Negro League, 1929
    Negro National League, 1935-48 (minus the time while Pompez fled)
    Negro American League, 1949-50 (home field: Polo Grounds)

    In 1924 Pompez helped negotiate the first-ever Negro World Series, pitting the champions of the NNL and ECL.

    At some point in 1934 or ’35 Pompez sought a buyer for the Cubans, though that didn’t pan out. Instead, he entered the club in Gus Greenlee’s Negro National League.

    In 1935 Pompez undertook to remodel the Dyckman Oval. He spent a reported $60,000 to increase seating capacity to 10,000 and modernize the park’s amenities. He also installed lights. As such, he was granted a three-year lease by the city parks commission.

    To help offset his costs, Pompez orchestrated several special appearances during 1935. Joe Louis appeared at the park and Babe Ruth, recently retired, brought his All-Stars for a doubleheader in September. The capacity crowd saw the Cubans win both games, 6-1 and 15-5. Pompez also promoted baseball, boxing, wrestling, motorcycles races and other events at the park. In 1939 Pompez signed featherweight boxer Joe Law to a promotional contract.

    The New York Cubans ceased operating while Pompez worked though his legal difficulties. Black baseball had no qualms his reentry into the business. However, the city, perhaps through spite, leveled the Dyckman Oval and made it a parking lot. Pompez was then like virtually all other black club owners dependent on booking agents. (Pompez and Gus Greenlee were among the few to circumvent the booking agents through their own parks.)

    The Cubans were readmitted to the Negro National League in 1939. Pompez served a vice president of the NNL during the 1940s.

    In March 1942 the Cubans defeated the Brooklyn Dodgers in Havana three out of four games.

    In 1943 however Pompez struck a deal with New York Giants owner Horace Stoneman for the use of the Polo Grounds.

    Due mainly to integration, the Cubans were running at a loss by 1948, estimated around $20,000. He started selling his players, incuding four to Norfolk for $5,000 in June. Pompez then signed a working agreement with Stoneman, thus joining the Giants’ organization and becoming the only black club to formally align with a major league club.

    As integration set in, the Giants took a different route than any other club in this aspect. The club’s scouting director Jack Schwarz suggested to Stoneman that Pompez be hired as a scout since the Cubans had recently folded (as all Negro league clubs would) in 1950. It seemed liked a fit since Pompez had already been dispensing advice on Negro league talent and scouting for the Giants on an informal basis. He had advised Stoneman to sign Monte Irvin and also to sign Hank Aaron. However, negotiations between the Giants’ owner and Indianapolis Clowns’ owner Syd Polluck fell through.

    Obviously, he was mainly hired for his knowledge and contacts in Latin America and within black baseball. Pompez was a rarity in the business at the executive level; he was bilingual and could easily move between the culturally distinct baseball worlds – organized baseball, black baseball and the Caribbean.

    Pompez soon became a caretaker for the club’s black and Latin players, as the Giants quickly realized the cultural adjustments the new talent would need. Pompez was ever-present at spring training and within the organization seeing to the needs of the minorities. He scheduled room assignments, supervised living quarters, gave cultural lessons, helped with communication and interaction of the new players with teammates, fans and the media and otherwise attempted to ease the transition

    In 1949 Pompez sold Ray Dandridge, Dave Barnhill and Ray Noble to the Giants for $20,000. Ultimately, the Cubans folded after the 1950 season due to lack of fan support.

    Pompez was responsible for scouting and signing either directly or through his network:

    Felipe Alou
    Jesus Alou
    Matty Alou
    Sandy Amoros
    Damaso Blanco
    Ossie Blanco
    Marshall Bridges
    Jose Cardenal
    Orlando Cepeda
    Tito Fuentes
    Gil Girrido
    Monte Irvin
    Sherman Jones
    Willie Kirkland
    Coco Laboy
    Juan Marichal
    Willie McCovey
    Minnie Minoso
    Manny Mota
    Ray Noble
    Jimmy Rosario
    Jose Santiago
    Jose Tartabull
    Ozzie Virgil

    Many citations also claim that Pompez had a hand in the signing of Willie Mays.

    Pompez maintained a relationship with the Giants for 25 years, working for the club as late as 1971. He was eventually named Director of International Scouting.

    When the National Baseball Hall of Fame started considering Negro league players for induction, Pompez was a member of the first four election committees, starting in 1971. Pompez himself was elected to the HOF in 2006.

    DOMINICAN REPUBLIC

    Soon after joining the Giants, Pompez hired his former shortstop Horacio Martinez to assist him in the Dominican Republic. Martinez helped put the Dominican Republic on the baseball map as the baseball coach at the University of Santo Domingo. Juan Marichal, the Alous and Manny Mota were signed through Martinez.

    Pompez had a special standing with the Trujillo government in the Dominican Republic. The first Dominican ballplayers to enter the majors came through the Giants organization. As Lawrence D. Hogan put it in Shades of Glory, Pompez “engineer(ed) the opening of the Dominican pipeline.” Actually, Pompez’s signed six of the first 12:

    1 – Ozzie Virgil, 1956
    2 – Felipe Alou, 1958
    3 – Matty Alou, 1960
    5 – Juan Marichal, 1960
    10 – Manny Mota, 1962
    12 – Jesus Alou, 1963
    I realize Pompez was a numbers guy, but there weren't a lot of businesses where African-Americans could make big money at the time. The other thing is, the "numbers racket" these days not only still exists, but is legal in most states under the name of the "lottery" (i.e., pick threes). There is a seamier side to the illegal side of the business, and it's not hard to imagine Pompez got his hands dirty. That said, it's about his contributions to the game, and I know of no evidence his gambling business had any adverse connection to baseball excluding the time he couldn't run the Cubans because of his legal/financial difficulties--and he wouldn't have had the money to be involved at all but for the gambling business.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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    I made this pitch for Francisco Coimbre to be honored among the Negro Leaguers:

    Coimbre played in Puerto Rico as well, but did eventually come up and play in the Negro Leagues. The BBTF folks have data on him from 1938-49, and translate that to 5628 PA with 302/ 371/ 381 marks. Again, I chose to hold the averages the same, but give him 1.5 times those numbers, which begin at age 29 to 40. That gives him 8442 PA. The comp I arrived at is a CF (and thus likely a better fielder) in Lloyd Waner, whose marks are 8326 PA and 316/ 353/ 393.

    This comp is very rough, but at least they give some idea of the talent of the player in question. Similar levels of isolated power, but Coimbre walked more while L Waner had a better average. The biggest difference would be the era--the game wasn't quite as supercharged offensively in Coimbre's time as L Waner's.

    In his native Puerto Rico, he was regarded as the best before Clemente. IMHO, he wasn't on a par with Roberto, but he was a heck of a player. He's a member of the Ponce Puerto Rican team's HOF. Not a HOFer to me, but in that tier below it, which is good enough for this project, at least in my view.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  5. #5
    Judy Johnson
    Johnson is best remembered as a good contact hitter who was considered one of the best fielders in the Negro Leagues.
    He was part of the great 1935 Pittsburgh Crawford team.

    Johnson should also be considered for his leadership roles.
    Johnson was a player-coach for the Homestead Grays. Johnson was also the team captain of the Pittsburgh Crawfords.
    In 1954, he become the first African American to coach in Major League Baseball.
    He also was one of the most accomplished talent scouts in baseball, said to have brought Josh Gibson into the league, and signing Bill Bruton and Dick Allen.

    Elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1975

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgarza View Post
    Judy Johnson
    Johnson is best remembered as a good contact hitter who was considered one of the best fielders in the Negro Leagues.
    He was part of the great 1935 Pittsburgh Crawford team.

    Johnson should also be considered for his leadership roles.
    Johnson was a player-coach for the Homestead Grays. Johnson was also the team captain of the Pittsburgh Crawfords.
    In 1954, he become the first African American to coach in Major League Baseball.
    He also was one of the most accomplished talent scouts in baseball, said to have brought Josh Gibson into the league, and signing Bill Bruton and Dick Allen.

    Elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1975
    I'll accept this since Negro League data is so spotty.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  7. #7
    Gus Greenlee
    Owner of the great Pittsburgh Crawfords teams of the 1930s.

    from Wikipedia :
    In 1933 Greenlee organized the annual East-West Classic, an all-star baseball game in Chicago between Negro League stars, which became the centerpiece of the baseball season. That same year he was the primary founder of the second Negro National League, which he served as president for five seasons.

    In 1932 he opened Greenlee Field, the first black-owned and black-built baseball park in America.

  8. #8
    Effa Manley
    from Wikipedia ;
    She co-owned the Newark Eagles baseball franchise in the Negro leagues with her husband Abe from 1935 to 1946 and was sole owner through 1948 after his death. Throughout that time, she served as the team's business manager and fulfilled many of her husband's duties as treasurer of the Negro National League.

    She displayed particular skill in the area of marketing and often scheduled promotions that advanced the civil rights movement. Her most noteworthy success was the Eagles' victory in the Negro League World Series in 1946.

    She worked to improve the condition of the players in the entire league. She advocated better scheduling, pay, and accommodations. Her players traveled in an air-conditioned Flxible Clipper bus, considered extravagant for the Negro leagues.


    Elected to the Hall of Fame by Negro Leagues Committee in 2006.

  9. #9
    Walter Ball
    I'm going to try to cobble this together rather quickly from online sources. Ball's a tough one to spell out...

    Walter Ball was a top Negro League pitcher in the first decade of the 20th Century. He was noted for his spitball.

    Career: 1903-1923
    Positions: p, of
    Teams: Augusta, Georgia, Chicago Union Giants (1903, 1905), Cuban X-Giants (1904), Philadelphia Giants, Brooklyn Royal Giants (1905, 1913), Leland Giants (1905-1909), Quaker Giants (1906), St. Paul Colored Gophers (1907), Keystones (1908), Chicago Giants (1910-1911, 1917-1921), St. Louis Giants (1912), Chicago American Giants (1912, 1915), Mohawk Giants (1913), New York Lincoln Giants (1914), Milwaukee Giants

    Ball later coached for the West in the 1936 East-West Game.
    At the 1937 East-West All-Star Game in Chicago, Ball was honored on the field.
    He was proposed as a Hall of Fame candidate in 2006.


    http://www.coe.ksu.edu/nlbemuseum/hi...yers/ball.html
    The Cuban winter season closed March 31, 1909, and Ball returned to the United States, joining the Leland Giants in Memphis, Tennessee, in April. During the team's southern tour the star hurler did not suffer a single defeat. He opened the regular season May 1, 1909, for the Leland Giants, and during the season pitched twenty-five games in the City League, losing only once to top the league in winning percentage and lead the Lelands to a pennant. Records credit Ball with a 12-1 record for the season, with 70 strikeouts, 34 walks, 12 hit batsmen, and I wild pitch to go with a batting average of .238.

    When owner Frank Leland and manager Rube Foster split in 1910, Ball remained with Leland and hit .359 for Leland's new team, the Chicago Giants, but injured his kneecap late in the season. He remained with Leland's Chicago Giants in 1911, but the following season he pitched with the St. Louis Giants, where he won 23 straight games against all levels of opposition.

  10. #10
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    When I revised the voting schedule, I inadvertently indicated the nominations would not end until the 20th. That is incorrect. They end on the 13th Sorry for any confusion this has caused.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  11. #11
    Newt Allen
    2B/IF - 1920s-1940s

    Playing about 20+ years, records show : .291/.337/.378/.715
    Some consider possibly the best fielding 2B of his time.

    Selected to the East-West All Star game four times, 1936-1938 and 1941.

    Elected team captain by his Monarchs teammates. Allen was appointed to the post of player manager in 1937, and his leadership guided the Monarchs through a six-year domination of the Negro American League. During this span the Monarchs won 5 league titles.
    Monarchs' manager in 1941. Won the Negro American League championship that season.
    Managed the Indianapolis Clowns in 1947.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgarza View Post
    Newt Allen
    2B/IF - 1920s-1940s

    Playing about 20+ years, records show : .291/.337/.378/.715
    Some consider possibly the best fielding 2B of his time.

    Selected to the East-West All Star game four times, 1936-1938 and 1941.

    Elected team captain by his Monarchs teammates. Allen was appointed to the post of player manager in 1937, and his leadership guided the Monarchs through a six-year domination of the Negro American League. During this span the Monarchs won 5 league titles.
    Monarchs' manager in 1941. Won the Negro American League championship that season.
    Managed the Indianapolis Clowns in 1947.
    I'll certainly list him, but the circumstances are such that I'm going to do it on both lists. So if you want him, regardless of how he gets in, vote for him in both. If you vote for him in only one, I'm going to assume you do not support him for the other, and will not count that vote. I'll double check my sources on him, as my memory is he was a lighter hitter than suggested here. I confess I missed the player/manager bit, but so long as I can confirm it, he'll at least get my vote as a contributor, even if his hitting was as weak as I recall. If his hitting was stronger than my admittedly imperfect memory, he may well get two yes votes from me. He certainly has the good defensive reputation.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    I'll certainly list him, but the circumstances are such that I'm going to do it on both lists.
    Both lists as in both Player and Contributor lists?
    I was seeing him as a Player with some Contributor pluses, but I can see it could go both ways.

    I'll double check my sources on him, as my memory is he was a lighter hitter than suggested here. I confess I missed the player/manager bit, but so long as I can confirm it, he'll at least get my vote as a contributor, even if his hitting was as weak as I recall. If his hitting was stronger than my admittedly imperfect memory, he may well get two yes votes from me. He certainly has the good defensive reputation.
    From what I can tell, he had a good def. rep. for sure, and his hitting wasn't great but probably decent for a middle IFer (I don't see any suggestions that he should be considered a poor batter).

    I was able to pull some archived info. from the National HOF website. :

    Born: May 19, 1901, in Austin, Tex.
    Died: June 9, 1988, in Cincinnati, Ohio
    Batted: Right Threw: Right Height: 5'8" Weight: 170 lbs.

    Played from 1923-1944, and in 1947, with a career average of .287. Played primarily at second base and shortstop for the Kansas City Monarchs.

    Played in four East-West All-Star games: 1936, 1937, 1938 and 1941.

    Had four hits in a game on 14 different occasions and twice had five hits. First time was on June 12, 1928 when he went 5-5 with three doubles and the second time was on August 4, 1940.

    Had two 19-game hitting streaks.

    Played six seasons in the California Winter League. Over 135 games batted .324 and is fifth all-time in doubles, twice leading the league. The League began in 1912 and ended in the 1940s and ran from October-February each year. One or more Negro teams played along with three to five white teams each year.

    Played 1924-25 and 1937-38 seasons in Cuba. During his first stint, hit .313 with 15 hits in 48 AB, and during the second he hit .269 with 47 hits in 175 AB.

    Player/manager of the Monarchs starting in 1937. Led the club to five Negro American League titles in six years.
    Known best for his strong defensive play and his leadership qualities. Allen was often chosen team captain.

    Played with the Monarchs in the 1924 and 1925 World Series and again in 1942 when they defeated the Homestead Grays.
    Played in exhibition games with white major league competition and hit right around .300
    Last edited by dgarza; 04-13-2012 at 08:50 AM.

  14. #14
    deleted my John Beckwith post because I see he's already in
    Last edited by dgarza; 04-13-2012 at 07:55 AM.

  15. #15
    Chat Brewer
    http://web.archive.org/web/200602072...rewer_chet.htm

    Born: January 14, 1907, Leavenworth, Kan.
    Died: March 26, 1990, in Whittier, Calif.
    Batted: Both Threw: Right Height: 6'4" Weight: 185 lbs.

    Spent at least parts of 19 of his 25 seasons as a professional with dominant teams, primarily the Kansas City Monarchs (12 seasons) and Cleveland Buckeyes (5). Also played for the New York Cubans, Philadelphia Stars and Pittsburgh Crawfords.

    His .597 winning percentage is 10th among Negro leagues pitchers and career win total is 13th. Ranks fifth all-time in career shutouts (15) and 11th in strikeouts (506).

    Lifetime Negro leagues ERA was 2.89.

    Pitched in two East-West All-Star games.

    Went 17-3 for the 1929 Monarchs, when they won the Negro National League pennant. Was 13-2 for the Monarchs in 1926, his first year as a regular starter.

    Pitched against Smokey Joe Williams in a legendary game in 1930 played under the Monarchs' portable lighting system, striking out 19 batters in 12 innings, losing 1-0.

    Threw one of three consecutive shutouts for a black all-star team that won the Denver Post tournament in 1937. Spent most of that summer in the Dominican Republic with the powerful Ciudad Trujillo team.

    First Black United States player in the Mexican League, where he played in 1938 and 1939, and again in 1944. Elected to the Mexican Baseball Hall of Fame in 1966.

    Between summer and winter ball, is credited with having played in the continental United States, Hawaii, Canada, the Philippines, the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama and Mexico.

    Ended career in the minor Southwest International League, where he also managed.

    Scouted for the Pittsburgh Pirates from 1957 to 1974, and developed a youth baseball program in Los Angeles, which produced some future major leaguers, including Bob Watson and Reggie Smith, among others.

    Was 43-13 in the California Winter League. The League began in 1912 and ended in the 1940s and ran from October-February each year. One or more Negro teams played along with three to five white teams each year.

  16. #16
    Sam Bankhead
    http://coe.ksu.edu/nlbemuseum/histor.../bankhead.html

    A hustling, all-around ballplayer, he was an outstanding fielder with a wide range and good hands but was best known for his exceptional throwing arm.

    On the bases he had good speed and could take and extra base, and was also a proficient base stealer.

    A good clutch hitter with moderate power, he could pull the ball and was always a threat at the plate.

    He was selected to the East-West All Star team seven times, representing three different teams (Elites, Crawfords, and Grays), and starting at five different positions (2b, ss, lf, cf, rf) while batting .346 in the classics.

    In a 1952 Pittsburgh Courier poll, he was selected as the first-team utility player on the all-time Negro Leagues All Star team.

    Sam was an integral part of the great Pittsburgh Crawfords of the mid-1930s and 1940s.

    He possessed one of the strongest arms in the Negro Leagues and was a solid hitter, with a .318 lifetime batting average.

    Some observers contend that Bankhead served as the model for the character Troy Maxson in the Broadway play "Fences."

  17. #17
    Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe
    http://www.negroleaguebaseball.com/p...Radcliffe.html
    Not only was a he 3 time all-star catcher, he matched this accomplishment with 3 all-star nominations as a pitcher.

    In the 1932 Negro World Series he caught Satchel Paige in the first game of a doubleheader, then pitched a shutout in the second game. This performance prompted sportswriter Damon Runyon to provide the nickname "Double Duty".

    In addition to his catching and pitching duties Radcliffe began taking on managerial responsibilities during the late 1930s. In 1937 and 1938 he managed the Memphis Red Sox and in 1943 took the helm of the Chicago American Giants. Throughout this time he continued as an active player
    .

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Radcliffe
    He also pitched in two and caught in six other All-Star games.

    He hit .376 (11-for-29) in nine exhibition games against major leaguers.


    Statistics available for 8 of his 23 seasons show him hitting .273, with a top mark of .316.

    Some claim 4,000 hits in lifetime.

  18. #18
    Bus Clarkson
    http://www.nlbpa.com/clarkson__james.html
    Bus was a right-handed power hitter who played all infield positions. He was a two-time all-star (1940 and 1949) and finished his 14 year black-ball career with a .359 lifetime batting average.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/nl...d=clarks001jam

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgarza View Post
    Both lists as in both Player and Contributor lists?
    I was seeing him as a Player with some Contributor pluses, but I can see it could go both ways.

    From what I can tell, he had a good def. rep. for sure, and his hitting wasn't great but probably decent for a middle IFer (I don't see any suggestions that he should be considered a poor batter).

    I was able to pull some archived info. from the National HOF website. :

    Born: May 19, 1901, in Austin, Tex.
    Died: June 9, 1988, in Cincinnati, Ohio
    Batted: Right Threw: Right Height: 5'8" Weight: 170 lbs.

    Played from 1923-1944, and in 1947, with a career average of .287. Played primarily at second base and shortstop for the Kansas City Monarchs.

    Played in four East-West All-Star games: 1936, 1937, 1938 and 1941.

    Had four hits in a game on 14 different occasions and twice had five hits. First time was on June 12, 1928 when he went 5-5 with three doubles and the second time was on August 4, 1940.

    Had two 19-game hitting streaks.

    Played six seasons in the California Winter League. Over 135 games batted .324 and is fifth all-time in doubles, twice leading the league. The League began in 1912 and ended in the 1940s and ran from October-February each year. One or more Negro teams played along with three to five white teams each year.

    Played 1924-25 and 1937-38 seasons in Cuba. During his first stint, hit .313 with 15 hits in 48 AB, and during the second he hit .269 with 47 hits in 175 AB.

    Player/manager of the Monarchs starting in 1937. Led the club to five Negro American League titles in six years.
    Known best for his strong defensive play and his leadership qualities. Allen was often chosen team captain.

    Played with the Monarchs in the 1924 and 1925 World Series and again in 1942 when they defeated the Homestead Grays.
    Played in exhibition games with white major league competition and hit right around .300
    That .287 average in the Negro Leagues doesn't translate well, and that causes me some hesitation on him as a player. However, I do like the managing qualification, and then you add in the long playing career, I'm pretty well sold on that combination.

    I didn't even wish to infer you didn't have sources, only that what you wrote conflicted to a degree with my memory. The most likely issue is my own memory, but we may be working on different sources, which might have significant differences.

    I think in this forum, the standard is that players are elected solely for their play, while contributors get the sum total of their work in the sport considered. It hasn't been perfectly followed, but the cases where we haven't have been cases where the guy was going to go much earlier as a contributor than as a player (Rube Foster would be a possible example). At this point in this project, this factor is meaningless, as they're going this round or not at all (unless they're very current retirees). I felt the dual listings is probably better than other arrangements at this point.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  20. #20
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    Nominations are closed.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    That .287 average in the Negro Leagues doesn't translate well, and that causes me some hesitation on him as a player.
    I listed it as it IS different from the 1st source I was using, but it is rather close (.004, or less depending on what numbers were rounded up and what numbers were rounded down).Could be the difference of one source listing just 1 less season out of a long career. To me, both numbers are show me a similar batter.

    I didn't even wish to infer you didn't have sources,
    No, I didn't take it as such.

  22. #22
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    The election is open. I'm going to post jjpm's PM to me with his votes, as I had agreed to this arrangement as he was not going to be available much this week. I will provide this service to others in similar circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74

    Players
    Newt Allen N
    Walter Ball N
    Sam Bankhead N
    Chet Brewer N
    Bus Clarkson Y
    Francisco Coimbre N
    Judy Johnson Y
    Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe N

    Contributors
    Newt Allen N
    Gus Greenlee Y
    Effa Manley Y
    Alex Pompez Y
    Frank Warfield Y
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  23. #23
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    I was confusing Allen with Bingo DeMoss. I'll bite on him as a player. I'm not sure about whether he or Andy Cooper managed in the late 30's to 1940, (some sources credit Allen with only 1941, after Cooper fell ill, others give him the five dgarza quoted), so if it weren't for his play, I'd pass on him as a contributor. As it is, I'll vote for him twice.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    15,249
    Blog Entries
    34
    Players
    Newt Allen-Y
    Walter Ball-Y
    Sam Bankhead-Y
    Chet Brewer-Y
    Bus Clarkson-Y
    Francisco Coimbre-Y
    Judy Johnson-Y
    Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe-Y

    Contributors
    Newt Allen-Y
    Gus Greenlee-Y
    Effa Manley-N
    Alex Pompez-Y
    Frank Warfield-Y
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  25. #25
    Players
    Newt Allen-Y
    Walter Ball-Y
    Sam Bankhead-Y
    Chet Brewer-Y
    Bus Clarkson-Y
    Francisco Coimbre-Y
    Judy Johnson-Y
    Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe-Y

    Contributors
    Newt Allen-Y
    Gus Greenlee-Y
    Effa Manley-Y
    Alex Pompez-Y
    Frank Warfield-Y

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