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Thread: Negro League BBF HOF second chance

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    That .287 average in the Negro Leagues doesn't translate well, and that causes me some hesitation on him as a player.
    I listed it as it IS different from the 1st source I was using, but it is rather close (.004, or less depending on what numbers were rounded up and what numbers were rounded down).Could be the difference of one source listing just 1 less season out of a long career. To me, both numbers are show me a similar batter.

    I didn't even wish to infer you didn't have sources,
    No, I didn't take it as such.

  2. #22
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    The election is open. I'm going to post jjpm's PM to me with his votes, as I had agreed to this arrangement as he was not going to be available much this week. I will provide this service to others in similar circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74

    Players
    Newt Allen N
    Walter Ball N
    Sam Bankhead N
    Chet Brewer N
    Bus Clarkson Y
    Francisco Coimbre N
    Judy Johnson Y
    Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe N

    Contributors
    Newt Allen N
    Gus Greenlee Y
    Effa Manley Y
    Alex Pompez Y
    Frank Warfield Y
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  3. #23
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    I was confusing Allen with Bingo DeMoss. I'll bite on him as a player. I'm not sure about whether he or Andy Cooper managed in the late 30's to 1940, (some sources credit Allen with only 1941, after Cooper fell ill, others give him the five dgarza quoted), so if it weren't for his play, I'd pass on him as a contributor. As it is, I'll vote for him twice.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  4. #24
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    Players
    Newt Allen-Y
    Walter Ball-Y
    Sam Bankhead-Y
    Chet Brewer-Y
    Bus Clarkson-Y
    Francisco Coimbre-Y
    Judy Johnson-Y
    Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe-Y

    Contributors
    Newt Allen-Y
    Gus Greenlee-Y
    Effa Manley-N
    Alex Pompez-Y
    Frank Warfield-Y
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  5. #25
    Players
    Newt Allen-Y
    Walter Ball-Y
    Sam Bankhead-Y
    Chet Brewer-Y
    Bus Clarkson-Y
    Francisco Coimbre-Y
    Judy Johnson-Y
    Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe-Y

    Contributors
    Newt Allen-Y
    Gus Greenlee-Y
    Effa Manley-Y
    Alex Pompez-Y
    Frank Warfield-Y

  6. #26
    Players

    Newt Allen-Y
    Walter Ball-Y
    Sam Bankhead-N
    Chet Brewer-Y
    Bus Clarkson-Y
    Francisco Coimbre-N
    Judy Johnson-Y
    Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe-Y

    Contributors

    Newt Allen-N
    Gus Greenlee-Y
    Effa Manley-N
    Alex Pompez-Y
    Frank Warfield-Y

  7. #27
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    This group stands at four votes, 2 short of the total needed to elect anyone.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  8. #28
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    I had this exchange in the Negro League forum:

    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    We're holding a second chance election for A "Hall of Fame" consisting only of Negro Leaguers and based solely on their performance in their leagues here: http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...-second-chance One key feature of the second chance elections is that it's a fixed list of players to consider, and except for guys who have retired but were active since 2010, they can only get in if someone states a case for them. The cases are available in the voting thread for voters to consider before casting their ballots.

    Anyway, dgarza posted a case for Newt Allen for the Negro Leagues, citing among other things that Allen managed the KC Monarchs to five championships. I have found some online sites which make that claim. OTOH, I've found other sites and some of my text resources which say that Allen only managed KC in 1941 (which was to a championship). I tend to think the latter is correct and the online stuff relies on a misreading of a resource, mainly because Lester and Clark's Negro Leagues Book lists all players and all managers for many years of the Negro Leagues, including the critical 1935-1940 stretch in question, and it only lists Allen for 1941. My first edition Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Leagues edited by James Riley supports the Lester/Clark position.

    I know there's a book on the KC Monarch franchise which may provide a more definitive answer for which is correct, but I don't have it. Can anybody resolve it, and cite the source for their conclusion?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dude Paskert View Post
    According to "The Kansas City Monarchs - Champions of Black Baseball" by Janet Bruce, Newt Allen was the Monarchs' captain in '35 and manager in '41. The same source says Sam Crawford managed in '35, Andy Cooper and Bullet Joe Rogan managed in '36, and then Cooper managed in '37, '39, and '40. Dizzy Dismukes took over after Allen in '42. I would assume Cooper probably managed in '38 and just wasn't listed as such. The only other nearby year for which I see a captain listed is '32 with Allen again, and there is no manager listed for that year.
    I quickly scanned the text for more detailed info, but the book isn't remotely chronological and I didn't have any luck.
    Hope this helps!
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  9. #29
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    Just over three days left to go in this election as I type this, and we're two votes short of what's needed to elect anyone.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  10. #30
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    less than 13 hours left in this election.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
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    Players

    Newt Allen-N
    Walter Ball-N
    Sam Bankhead-N
    Chet Brewer-Y
    Bus Clarkson-Y
    Francisco Coimbre-N
    Judy Johnson-N
    Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe-N

    Contributors

    Newt Allen-N
    Gus Greenlee-Y
    Effa Manley-Y (as representative of Effa & Abe)
    Alex Pompez-Y
    Frank Warfield-Y

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    6,597
    Players

    Newt Allen-Y
    Walter Ball-Y
    Sam Bankhead-Y
    Chet Brewer-Y
    Bus Clarkson-Y
    Francisco Coimbre-Y
    Judy Johnson-Y
    Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe-Y

    Contributors

    Newt Allen-Y
    Gus Greenlee-Y
    Effa Manley-N
    Alex Pompez-Y
    Frank Warfield-Y
    3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

  13. #33
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    Thanks to two votes in the last three hours of this election, we made the magic number of six, and were able to elect a few candidates. First the players:

    Players
    6 Bus Clarkson
    = ===============
    5 Chet Brewer
    5 Judy Johnson
    4 Newt Allen
    4 Walter Ball
    4 Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe
    3 Sam Bankhead
    3 Francisco Coimbre


    Next, the contributors:

    6 Gus Greenlee
    6 Alex Pompez
    6 Frank Warfield
    = ===========
    3 Newt Allen
    3 Effa Manley
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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