José who?

[Ralf]

Ruben Tejada doing all the little things right in fast start

That mid-March episode seemed long ago last night as Tejada once again made exactly the type of contributions Collins envisioned in helping the Mets win another close game.
Batting in the leadoff spot, Tejada worked a walk in his first at-bat. He slapped a double to right in his third at-bat. In the field, he handled all his chances flawlessly.

And, as the Mets rallied for a run in the bottom of the ninth inning against the Nationals’ hard-throwing closer Henry Rodriguez, Tejada laid down a sacrifice bunt with two strikes that helped set up the winning run.

It was a clinic in the “little things” Collins has been pounding into this club since the third week in February. Playing the game hard is not going to be enough, the manager has said repeatedly. Playing the game right is going to be what gives this team a chance.

http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/201...doing_all.html


NY Mets' Ruben Tejada shows he is in for the long stay at shortstop

All of that notwithstanding, nobody has been more impressive or vital to the Mets’ early play than Tejada. Already he has practically removed all doubt about his ability to replace Reyes in rather seamless fashion.

Obviously he’s not as dynamic as Reyes, but all you have to do is watch him to know he’s a winning player. He can make all the plays at shortstop, make them smoothly, and he has great instincts for the game on offense as well as defense.

“He just knows how to play the game,’’ Collins said in the hallway outside his office after his postgame press conference. “I love the way he plays. When I got on him back in spring training, I wasn’t really (ticked) at him, I just wanted him to understand how important he was to this team, how important it was that we were all going to do this together this season.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...#ixzz1rfIWF0h9


He's proving every day that it was the right move by the front office not to over pay for Reyes. He's not going to steal 30-40 bases or hit 10+ triples but he is a more heady player than Reyes and he's shown over the course of 400 ab's so far that he can hit for a good average and have a good OBP. Dollar for dollar, Alderson and Co. made the right move.

[Ralf]

Jose
22 PAs, 3 Ks, 0 BBs, 318/318/500

Ruben
18 PAs, 1 K, 3 BBs, 357/471/571

[Paulypal]

Jose
22 PAs, 3 Ks, 0 BBs, 318/318/500

Ruben
18 PAs, 1 K, 3 BBs, 357/471/571

Ok they shouldnt have overpaid for Jose..I agree, but lets use a little common sense here. Jose is a better player, and it shouldnt even have to be mentioned. Your giving stats after 22 pa's? Really?

[Ralf]

Ok they shouldnt have overpaid for Jose..I agree, but lets use a little common sense here. Jose is a better player, and it shouldnt even have to be mentioned. Your giving stats after 22 pa's? Really?

Relax, this will be a cumulative thread I plan on updating every week. Its more than likely Jose will have better cumulative numbers at the end of the year but I think the thread will prove the point that his cost in relation to production was a bridge too far.

Also, the argument has always been lost on some (not saying you) that the Mets never wanted to bring back Jose. Of course they did but he was essentially holding them ransom with his exorbitant salary demands. He's not worth $18m a year. I would argue, over the life of his 6 year deal, $12m/year would be more reasonable. That being said, he is gone and the FO made the right decision, dollar for dollar, to play Ruben every day. I for one look forward to him having a long, productive career for the Mets. He's lightyears ahead of Jose (at the same age) in terms of understanding the game.

[Paulypal]

Relax, this will be a cumulative thread I plan on updating every week. Its more than likely Jose will have better cumulative numbers at the end of the year but I think the thread will prove the point that his cost in relation to production was a bridge too far.

Also, the argument has always been lost on some (not saying you) that the Mets never wanted to bring back Jose. Of course they did but he was essentially holding them ransom with his exorbitant salary demands. He's not worth $18m a year. I would argue, over the life of his 6 year deal, $12m/year would be more reasonable. That being said, he is gone and the FO made the right decision, dollar for dollar, to play Ruben every day. I for one look forward to him having a long, productive career for the Mets. He's lightyears ahead of Jose (at the same age) in terms of understanding the game.

I agree with you 100% I wouldnt have spent nearly what the Marlins did for Reyes. As far as your assessment of Tejada - I think you over stating it. I hope not, but I believe you are. Tejada can understand the game all he wants - he isnt going to be the player Reyes is. Its not a crime, not many SS's are.

[Strawman]

Tejada is half the shortstop Reyes is, perhaps less - but the Marlins are paying Reyes $10M this year and the Mets are paying Tejada $494,000. It's all part of the big savings plan, cutting the Mets down to size.

Of course, I would have at least offered Jose a competitive contract or better yet, have tried to extend him the year before. Such is life in Wilpon land.

[theAmazingMet]

Jeff Wilpon is that you? Tejada couldnt hold Reyes' jock. Of course Tejada's cheaper, he also will never be an all-star.

[PVNICK]

If scratch a little and look beyond the 3B and SB and raw speed, which is admittedly a lot to ignore, Tejada in a very limited career is a fair match for Jose. Like Jose he came up very young. Jose also is I hate to say it a league average SS defensively and last years .360 OBP by Tejada in almost 400 PA was only bettered by Reyes once. Now the meager .320 something slugging percentage from last year by Tejada is where Reyes with his pop and speed sets himself apart.

[Paulypal]

If scratch a little and look beyond the 3B and SB and raw speed, which is admittedly a lot to ignore, Tejada in a very limited career is a fair match for Jose. Like Jose he came up very young. Jose also is I hate to say it a league average SS defensively and last years .360 OBP by Tejada in almost 400 PA was only bettered by Reyes once. Now the meager .320 something slugging percentage from last year by Tejada is where Reyes with his pop and speed sets himself apart.

If you scratch even more and ignore just a little lack of power Tejada is a dead ringer for Babe Ruth.

[PVNICK]

If you scratch even more and ignore just a little lack of power Tejada is a dead ringer for Babe Ruth.

Actually the point was Jose just isn't the God he's made out to be. He has/had a very exciting skill, namely speed, could hit for a good average and had some pop for a SS, but was nothing special on defense. That's all.

[Ralf]

Another solid night for Ruben. Kid's got 5 doubles in 8 games. He's becoming one of my favorite Mets.

[CokeMachineGlow]

I still think he's a fringe starter for a .500 (or less) team. I can't see Tejada starting for a championship squad.

[Jgweiss]

It appears that everyone commenting on Jose's contract negs is ignoring the fact that Jose missed a whole lot of time between being an All-Star. That seems to have had a lot to do with how much the Mets felt they could commit to him. The most interesting stat to follow may very well be PA's.

I still think he's a fringe starter for a .500 (or less) team. I can't see Tejada starting for a championship squad.

I definitely see what you're saying, but in this short start of the season, where none of the fatigue or anything else that happens in baseball has happened, Tejada and Murphy are proving to be a very nice 1-2 in the lineup, especially when a good bat, like Wright right now, is behind them.

[Ralf]

I still think he's a fringe starter for a .500 (or less) team. I can't see Tejada starting for a championship squad.

I see people writing this and I have no idea what they are talking about. What does that even mean? I can't for the life of me figure out how you can single out one player in a certain position and claim that he would not be on a championship team. Its illogical imo. Last year the Cardinals won the world series with an awful Furcal. I've seen the DBacks win with Tony Womack at short, and the Cardinals and Angels win with David Eckstein at SS who is not nearly the defensive player Ruben is and put up pedestrian offensive numbers. So please.....

All I've seen from Ruben so far is a damn smart baseball player (smarter than Reyes at the same age) who handles his position very well and makes good contact with the bat.

Anyway, Terry's thoughts on Ruben's good start:

“We knew the kind of player we had. We knew this kid was a very, very good shortstop. Catches the ball, he’s got a great arm. You always wonder, in his second full year, people start to see how he’s going to hit, but he’s handled himself great. He’s getting good balls, getting good pitches to hit, working some counts, getting deep into some counts for the other guys on the team – he’s a good player.”

[Ralf]

Ruben
35 PA, 4 R, 10 H, 5 2B, 3 RBI, 0 SB, 0 CS, 4 BB, 1 K, 333/412/500, 160 OPS+

Jose
39 PA, 4 R, 9 H, 3 2B, 1 3B, 1 RBI, 3 SB, 2 CS, 2 BB, 4 K, 243/282/378, 85 OPS+

[CokeMachineGlow]

Ruben
35 PA, 4 R, 10 H, 5 2B, 3 RBI, 0 SB, 0 CS, 4 BB, 1 K, 333/412/500, 160 OPS+

Jose
39 PA, 4 R, 9 H, 3 2B, 1 3B, 1 RBI, 3 SB, 2 CS, 2 BB, 4 K, 243/282/378, 85 OPS+

You're flouting a minuscule sample size so small that it's nearly irrelevant.

[milladrive]

I still think he's a fringe starter for a .500 (or less) team. I can't see Tejada starting for a championship squad.

At 21 years of age, I think it's a bit too early to make any conclusions. If he can maintain what he's been doing thus far, I can't see him hurting a team's chances to make it to the postseason. jmho.

[CokeMachineGlow]

At 21 years of age, I think it's a bit too early to make any conclusions. If he can maintain what he's been doing thus far, I can't see him hurting a team's chances to make it to the postseason. jmho.

Yeah, I retract that statement.

[milladrive]

Now -- at the risk of beginning a tangent -- if we wanna talk about Justin Turner, I would wholeheartedly agree with your original sentiment. Imo, a weak Major Leaguer, at best. In fact, I think Turner epitomizes the quadruple-A image the Mets currently exude.

I'd like to see a deal involving Turner and Pelfrey (and perhaps Nickeas, another epitomizing quadruple-A player), perhaps for a better quality backup catcher. Too bad we weren't in any position to make a move for Pudge when the chance was there.

[Ralf]

You're flouting a minuscule sample size so small that it's nearly irrelevant.

No flouting. If you read one of my first posts in this thread, I said I'm going to do periodic updates on the stats all season.

Anyway, today was clearly Ruben's worst day so far this year. Tough day at the plate (he looked really frustrated) and a brain fart in the field opened things up for Phils. It would have been nice to see the bullpen pick him up but the game got away from them quick.

[Ralf]

Now -- at the risk of beginning a tangent -- if we wanna talk about Justin Turner, I would wholeheartedly agree with your original sentiment. Imo, a weak Major Leaguer, at best. In fact, I think Turner epitomizes the quadruple-A image the Mets currently exude.

I'd like to see a deal involving Turner and Pelfrey (and perhaps Nickeas, another epitomizing quadruple-A player), perhaps for a better quality backup catcher. Too bad we weren't in any position to make a move for Pudge when the chance was there.

Totally agree with upgrading on Turner. I'd include Nickeas and Batista in that too. Preferably a RH first baseman, more capable veteran backup, and a Darren Oliver type reliever.

[Strawman]

Well if we're really going to "Jose, Who?" we need a base to start from. So...

Jose Reyes, the Mets all-time leader in:

Runs
Stolen bases
Triples

Also:

2nd in Hits
2nd in ABs
2nd in BA (for those playing 1,000 games)
3rd in 2B
11th in RBI (yeah, believe it!)
18th in HR (more than Hernandez, Ventura or Staub in a Mets uni)

We really oughta give this near HOF career more respect in Metsland. Few have come close to what Jose Reyes has done in a Mets uniform - in a 50-year history.

We need also to acknowledge Jose's class, loyalty and leadership - singular in my view among your typical wealth Major Leaguers. He's the builder of Jose Reyes Field, a youth ballpark in Palmar Arriba, and where Reyes "pays the salaries of the young coaches who work at Jose Reyes Field, provides exercise machines, bats, balls, gloves and other equipment, and has poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into the creation of a local league that fosters new talent in Santiago and around the country."

That's Jose, who!

Plus, you know, perhaps the most hustling Mets player of all time, a real throwback to the Golden Age:

image.jpg

[milladrive]

Well if we're really going to "Jose, Who?" we need a base to start from. So...

Jose Reyes, the Mets all-time leader in:

Runs
Stolen bases
Triples

Also:

2nd in Hits
2nd in ABs
2nd in BA (for those playing 1,000 games)
3rd in 2B
11th in RBI (yeah, believe it!)
18th in HR (more than Hernandez, Ventura or Staub in a Mets uni)

We really oughta give this near HOF career more respect in Metsland. Few have come close to what Jose Reyes has done in a Mets uniform - in a 50-year history.

We need also to acknowledge Jose's class, loyalty and leadership - singular in my view among your typical wealth Major Leaguers. He's the builder of Jose Reyes Field, a youth ballpark in Palmar Arriba, and where Reyes "pays the salaries of the young coaches who work at Jose Reyes Field, provides exercise machines, bats, balls, gloves and other equipment, and has poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into the creation of a local league that fosters new talent in Santiago and around the country."

That's Jose, who!

Plus, you know, perhaps the most hustling Mets player of all time, a real throwback to the Golden Age:

image.jpg

Most definitely, no one -- well, I can't speak for everyone -- I give all due credit to José for the records, milestones, and excitement he brought to Shea and Citi during his tenure. And I fully expect him to receive a warm welcome Tue Apr 24 when Miami comes to Citi (our friend Joe and I will be there).

I think the "José who?" is more meant to indicate that Tejada is currently doing an admirable job, especially for a 22yo rookie. As well, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I think the team is a bit more coherent now that the beaming spotlight is no longer aimed at two players. The light is now shining on all nine players, and I think they're doing a decent job taking up the slack as a unit.

Yeah, I'll miss Reyes for as long as he's not a Met and continues to play ML Baseball. But, much like Seaver's departure, Reyes' departure wasn't of his own doing. I'm sure he would've liked to remain a Met, but it wasn't in the baseball cards.

[milladrive]

Totally agree with upgrading on Turner. I'd include Nickeas and Batista in that too. Preferably a RH first baseman, more capable veteran backup, and a Darren Oliver type reliever.

I fully agree. ...all except for the RH firstbaseman. I've never been high on righty firstbasemen. Watching a lefty at first is such a joy to watch. Almost as enjoyable as watching a knuckleballer who's on his game. It's one of the reasons I'm so glad Davis is a Met. When I think about the Mets' best defensive firstbasemen, I think of Hernandez, Olerud, Milner, or Kranepool, well above Magadan, Zeile, Kingman, or Delgado. And I can't help but mention Brooklyn's Gil Hodges in this breath.

But I'm all for aiming for a competent veteran backup backstop, and an eighth inning specialist. At the same time, I've had no problems at all with the job Jon Rauch has been doing in the eighth. I hope his apparent quality is no fluke.

[Ralf]

I fully agree. ...all except for the RH firstbaseman. I've never been high on righty firstbasemen. Watching a lefty at first is such a joy to watch. Almost as enjoyable as watching a knuckleballer who's on his game. It's one of the reasons I'm so glad Davis is a Met. When I think about the Mets' best defensive firstbasemen, I think of Hernandez, Olerud, Milner, or Kranepool, well above Magadan, Zeile, Kingman, or Delgado. And I can't help but mention Brooklyn's Gil Hodges in this breath.

But I'm all for aiming for a competent veteran backup backstop, and an eighth inning specialist. At the same time, I've had no problems at all with the job Jon Rauch has been doing in the eighth. I hope his apparent quality is no fluke.

I meant RH hitting backup first baseman. I hope Davis is a long term solution here.