They'd be leading the division with Reyes at the top of the lineup - he'd be having a better year, and so would they. Huge mistake not to at least make an offer in the neighborhood.Originally Posted by Ralf
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They'd be leading the division with Reyes at the top of the lineup - he'd be having a better year, and so would they. Huge mistake not to at least make an offer in the neighborhood.
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Registered User
Hilarious. The alternate universe game is so much fun. Let me try...
If Jose Reyes was still on the Mets, as a team they would be hitting .240 with RISP and would be in 4th place 10 games out of first place. This is fun!
Tejada has been good.
Paulypal
The drama unfolds:
Strawman - If the Mets had Reyes they would be the greatest team ever. They would win 154 games and Reyes would hit .743 all while he would fight crime with the Avengers in his spare time.
Ralf - Thank God he is gone-- if he was on the team they would be in 47th place 216 games out of first. I also hear is an Al Qaeda operative.
The beat goes on...............
Curmudgeon
Ruben Tejada can play. Not really a question. And with Reyes' injury history, you can't fault them for not resigning him to the ridiculous deal he wanted.
Miami will LOVE him in 2 or 3 years.
Registered User
*Reyes* injury history - that's kinda funny when Tejada's only played 39 games this year!
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Registered User
The difference? I wasn't being serious......
Curmudgeon
Reyes missed most of 2009 with hamstring issues. He missed significant portions of 2010 with thyroid issues. He missed large parts of last year with assorted other injuries. The guy hasn't been consistently healthy since 2008.
He depends on his speed, quite a bit. He's had a number of leg injuries. He's not going to be particularly speedy in a few years.
Face it, the Mets are no worse off without him. If they had resigned him, I guarantee that half the people here (including possibly yourself) would be yelling and screaming about how he's a waste of money once he stops stealing bases.
Registered User
Ruben (1 yr / $491,209)
226 PA, 33 R, 64 H, 14 2B, 0 3B, 0 HR, 16 RBI, 1 SB, 1 CS, 13 BB, 39 K, .309/.356/.377, 104 OPS+
Jose (6 yrs / $106,000,000)
427 PA, 46 R, 102 H, 19 2B, 6 3B, 5 HR, 24 RBI, 21 SB, 5 CS, 40 BB, 38 K, .268/.336/.388, 94 OPS+
Registered User
And one dropped double play ball.
But seriously, Ruben is an okay shortstop and yeah, cheap. I like the kid. But he's no Jose Reyes, even in this, Jose's first year away from NY (clearly he misses it).
I'd take Reyes' durability and speed over Tejada's injury-prone, slow-footed season any day, even with the difference in BA. And to be fair, Jose costs less in 2012 than the bullpen Sandy Alderson put together this off-season!
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Paulypal
The comparison is ridiculous Reyes being durable just as ridiculous. Watching you two try to annoy each other .priceless
Registered User
Well, the fact is this year, Reyes has been the more durable player. It's just a fact. No knock on Tejada, he's been unlucky.
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
Metsistentialist Thinker
Here's a fun fact--
If Jose Reyes were still on the Mets...they STILL wouldn't be in the hunt, because that's not what's keeping them out, because Jose Reyes doesn't pitch in the 7th, 8th, and 9th!
(And before Pauly responds that most starters on this team would be backups on a team like the Angels or Braves--
Fair enough, but you must concede that if the Mets had had a competent bullpen, or even a sub-par one...well, granted we'd really only be about 4 or 5 games back instead of 8+ but leaving playoff dreams aside for the year you have to admit it's been the bullpen that's blown it this year.
Teams with good-bench-players-for-starters have made or at least made runs at the playoffs before, so I still contend that, if nothing else, we'd be a couple wins on the happy side of .500 and the mood around this team would still be positive if not for the bullpen, which constitutes quite possibly the worst sectional-failure by a team I've ever seen...one more thing:
To be WS contenders?
Yes, you're right--we need better players/the ones we have need to improve, we'd need far better fielding, and more power.
To be a +.500 team with momentum?
That's a totally different thing, and we WOULD have such a team if not for the bullpen, if it were the 25th worst instead of dead-last at 30th we'd be there...again, that's not a WS contender, but you know, it's a step, and I myself wouldn't sniff at it after the last few years.)
"Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Paulypal
I agree THIS year, but I also read that Jose is playing very cautiously this year. Hence the lack of SB's.
Metsistentialist Thinker
And don't you just love it when the parenthetical is longer than the non-parenthetical portion of your post?
"Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Metsistentialist Thinker
I never though I'd say it--but I agree, and I don't mind Reyes not being on the team.
I think Tejada is better defensively, has speed that can develop, and as for hitting, you're right, probably not the hitter Jose was, but that's OK, if he turned out to be an average .280s batter with speed and a good glove AND he didn't consistently get hurt AND he didn't demand a huge salary...
I miss Jose, it'd have been nice to keep him, but I'm not disappointed with what we have now in Tejada--he's no #7, but he's still a decent player and a better defender.
"Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Registered User
I am not going to bother looking it up but who has the better OBP and OPS? That's it. Hitting lead off who gets on more?
Others have said it, Reyes and Tejada are not the cause of the Mets woes. It is the lack of talent EVERYWHERE else, except 3b, that is the problem.
I enjoyed the first half run. It was fun but I NEVER drank the Kool Aid. Step back and forget the hype, don't be a fan for a second...this team is a mess. No defense,, no speed at all. Davis still looks like he is guessing, Murphy is hitting well but the rest of his game is poor, the league quickly figured out Duda, Thole is mediocre at best, Torres stinks, Bay stinks, Capt. Kirk was rushed up and still has a lot of work to do, and we all know that the pen is a joke. Valdespin looks like he has raw talent but has a lot of work to do, Turner has nothing to offer, and Tejada is a singles hitter. On top of that now the Mets rush up a kid to start on Thursday who has talent but who isn't ready...not because of stuff...but because of lack of command. He pitched behind in AAA, so I think we can figure out what happens in the Bigs if he does it there. Boom.
As a fan I want lots of moves, if possible, not Alderson putting out platitudes and doing nothing. I want better drafting, I want the Wilpons to spend of appropriate free agents and get this team fixed for the long run. I want meaningful games in OCTOBER!
Registered User
I disagree. I think its perfectly reasonable to compare the stats from each season of two players that play the same position, in the same league, in the same division, against virtually the exact same opponents.
Registered User
I haven't updated this bad boy in a while. As usual, Reyes turned it on when his team was out of contention and there was zero pressure.......career compiler.
Ruben (1 yr / $491,209)
316 PA, 38 R, 93 H, 17 2B, 0 3B, 1 HR, 20 RBI, 1 SB, 2 CS, 19 BB, 53 K, .320/.365/.388, 110 OPS+
Jose (6 yrs / $106,000,000)
513 PA, 63 R, 132 H, 26 2B, 8 3B, 8 HR, 31 RBI, 28 SB, 6 CS, 47 BB, 44 K, .288/.352/.431, 111 OPS+
I'm not sure that's entirely fair but without breaking it down by season he is a career .263 hitter in sept/Oct and .262 with 2 outs RISP. Wierdest of all, or maybe not, he is a career .325 hitter in wins and .254 in losses. On the flip side, his average is .290 first half and .294 second half of seasons. anyway, pretty soon we appear to be headign for a David who thread.
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Besides 2006 where they had pretty much clinched the division on Sept 1, there were 3 years where the Mets were in a playoff race at the start of September; 2005, 2007 and 2008. Look up Reyes numbers for those months. He folded like a cheap suit under the pressure of the race each time. The guy is not a winning ballplayer. He's a compiler.
Registered User
I've been a Mets fan since 1969. No single Met played harder for this team during that period than Jose Reyes. As hard, yes - Gary Carter comes to mind. Joe McEwing. Mookie. Backman. Harder? Nope. And that's all there is to it - played hard (as Collins constantly says, by the way) and deserves the praise of long-time Mets fans.
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
??? If there was a triple to be had OK but oterwise, eh. Ask Willie Randolph and Manuel when he first got there about it. I don't remember ever seeing a shortstop vapor lock defensively other than him. He was great and if the franchise was headed in the right direction he should be there but please stop with the revisionist history.
You're pretty much right: 2006 .297 .360 OBP, 2008 .243/.314, 2007 is the one that really sticks out .205/.279. 2005 he was .262/.302 but other than one month when he hit .330 he was consistently @ the .260s with a high .278 and a low @.250 so he was just par for the season. I remember there was a time (or maybe 3 AB i recall) where with less than 2 outs and men in scoring position he would get walked but then that stopped too.
Registered User
You clearly misremember - I'm not talking about the occasional bad play or decision - I'm talking hustle and playing hard. No Met from 1969 to the present day played harder.
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
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