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Thread: José who?

  1. #26
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    Ah. I misunderstood. In that case, I totally agree. ...although I'd still like to replace Nickeas.
    Put it in the books.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by milladrive View Post
    Most definitely, no one -- well, I can't speak for everyone -- I give all due credit to José for the records, milestones, and excitement he brought to Shea and Citi during his tenure. And I fully expect him to receive a warm welcome Tue Apr 24 when Miami comes to Citi (our friend Joe and I will be there).

    I think the "José who?" is more meant to indicate that Tejada is currently doing an admirable job, especially for a 22yo rookie. As well, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I think the team is a bit more coherent now that the beaming spotlight is no longer aimed at two players. The light is now shining on all nine players, and I think they're doing a decent job taking up the slack as a unit.

    Yeah, I'll miss Reyes for as long as he's not a Met and continues to play ML Baseball. But, much like Seaver's departure, Reyes' departure wasn't of his own doing. I'm sure he would've liked to remain a Met, but it wasn't in the baseball cards.
    Yeah that's very well said - I agree. This is not quite as bad as Seaver but a bit worse than Strawberry, that's how I see it. May be another generation till we develop somebody as good again.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by milladrive View Post
    I fully agree. ...all except for the RH firstbaseman. I've never been high on righty firstbasemen. Watching a lefty at first is such a joy to watch. Almost as enjoyable as watching a knuckleballer who's on his game. It's one of the reasons I'm so glad Davis is a Met. When I think about the Mets' best defensive firstbasemen, I think of Hernandez, Olerud, Milner, or Kranepool, well above Magadan, Zeile, Kingman, or Delgado. And I can't help but mention Brooklyn's Gil Hodges in this breath.
    But Gil was a righty, milla! He, Andrés Galarraga (whom I actually saw), and Vic Power are typically the first guys I've heard mentioned when it comes to fine-fielding righty first basemen. Teixeira has won several Gold Gloves (for what that's worth).

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIBaseball View Post
    But Gil was a righty, milla! He, Andrés Galarraga (whom I actually saw), and Vic Power are typically the first guys I've heard mentioned when it comes to fine-fielding righty first basemen. Teixeira has won several Gold Gloves (for what that's worth).
    Wow, you're right! Geez, I could've sworn Hodges fielded lefty. I knew he batted righty, but I really thought he fielded lefthanded. Brain burp city. */me hangs head in shame*

    And yup, those are some fine examples of great righty firstbasemen. Of course, I still prefer the defensive lefty there, but I'm now a tad more open-minded about it.
    Put it in the books.

  5. #30
    I don't get the big controversy with this thread. Yes, it's a small sample size but isn't this what message boards are for? Let's see if the theory holds by game 162. Taking out stats I can say that I definitely don't feel like something is missing with Reyes gone. I'm not saying Tejada is better by any means but it makes the loss of Reyes much more manageable. When Wright was out you might as well have the Cyclones lineup in the game.

    Tejada's baseball IQ is also infinitely better than Reyes. Reyes will get you the big stats, runs, avg, sbs, maybe even hrs, but I never trusted him in a big spot. It was either all or nothing with Reyes and at times he looked clueless at the plate.

    I'd go on the record and say Tejada will have better numbers with runners in scoring position than Reyes.
    A fish stinks from the head down. Sell the Mets.

  6. #31
    Ruben in a mini slump right now the past 3 games.

    1-12 with 3ks

    I wonder if Terry will sit him today to give him a good day and a half off.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    Ruben in a mini slump right now the past 3 games.

    1-12 with 3ks

    I wonder if Terry will sit him today to give him a good day and a half off.
    For the past several games the announcers have been saying Tejada was scheduled, if you could call it that, to get the game off on Wednesday's (now today's) day game.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    For the past several games the announcers have been saying Tejada was scheduled, if you could call it that, to get the game off on Wednesday's (now today's) day game.
    My bad. I've been DVRing most of the games lately because I'm working late. I usually fast forward through each ab until there is a play.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    My bad. I've been DVRing most of the games lately because I'm working late. I usually fast forward through each ab until there is a play.
    I'm imagining time is a factor when watching the game between work, dinner, and sleeping, but it just seems like an injustice that you're missing much of the commentary, much of which is the best part of the games.

    Put it in the books.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by milladrive View Post
    I'm imagining time is a factor when watching the game between work, dinner, and sleeping, but it just seems like an injustice that you're missing much of the commentary, much of which is the best part of the games.

    Trust me, i wish I had the time to sit down with a beer or two and veg out watching the entire game. Most nights, its just not possible.

  11. #36
    While Ruben has had a rough stretch of games lately (K rate spiked since last Sunday), Reyes continues to be awful with the bat and in the field.

    Ruben
    56 PA, 6 R, 13 H, 7 2B, 7 RBI, 0 SB, 0 CS, 6 BB, 9 K, 265/345/408, 116 OPS+

    Jose
    68 PA, 6 R, 14 H, 5 2B, 2 3B, 2 RBI, 4 SB, 2 CS, 6 BB, 8 K, 230/294/377, 87 OPS+

  12. #37
    Ruben absolutely destroyed Jose for the month of April. Not even close. He's making the front office look real good.

    Ruben
    94 PA, 13 R, 26 H, 8 2B, 8 RBI, 1 SB, 1 CS, 8 BB, 17 K, 310/366/405, 120 OPS+

    Jose
    88 PA, 6 R, 16 H, 5 2B, 2 3B, 3 RBI, 4 SB, 3 CS, 8 BB, 9 K, 202/276/321, 65 OPS+

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    Ruben absolutely destroyed Jose for the month of April. Not even close. He's making the front office look real good.

    Ruben
    94 PA, 13 R, 26 H, 8 2B, 8 RBI, 1 SB, 1 CS, 8 BB, 17 K, 310/366/405, 120 OPS+

    Jose
    88 PA, 6 R, 16 H, 5 2B, 2 3B, 3 RBI, 4 SB, 3 CS, 8 BB, 9 K, 202/276/321, 65 OPS+
    Yes and Bryan Lahair destroyed Albert Pujols. I have a feeling it will even out.

    Do you really think the front office looks good?
    Last edited by Paulypal; 04-30-2012 at 05:40 AM.

  14. #39
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    I wouldn't make this a referendum on the front office. But it is good to follow from, if nothing else, a curiousity standpoint. At any rate at this point in the season a few good games in a row, like Tejada's 10 hit weekend, can bring up the average about a hundred points. At some point we might want to throw in the defensive numbers.

  15. #40
    Yeah, I don't think the Tejada v. Reyes tracker makes much sense. Sure, Ruben's a nice player who could be a part of the puzzle. Even at the top of his game, he's nobody's idea of a game-changer. Jose is - he's just off to a slow start in strange new surroundings. Happens to best of 'em (see Pujols, Albert).

    It's not like management said "hey we've got this future superstar in Tejada, let's let Reyes go" - it's that they didn't have (or didn't want to spend) the money. Tejada was/is a reasonably priced replacement who's not a horrible ballplayer. The model is for a $50M team going forward, which is why if David Wright gets a $100M offer next year, we'll have a "Justin Turner off to fast start, that Alderson sure is smart" thread here on BBF!
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    I wouldn't make this a referendum on the front office. But it is good to follow from, if nothing else, a curiousity standpoint. At any rate at this point in the season a few good games in a row, like Tejada's 10 hit weekend, can bring up the average about a hundred points. At some point we might want to throw in the defensive numbers.
    I wouldn't call it a referendum on the front office. Far from it. It's not like they chose Tejada over Reyes. But it certainly is interesting. I agree. Let's not forget that Reyes had a career year last year. Regression is likely.
    A fish stinks from the head down. Sell the Mets.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Yeah, I don't think the Tejada v. Reyes tracker makes much sense. Sure, Ruben's a nice player who could be a part of the puzzle. Even at the top of his game, he's nobody's idea of a game-changer. Jose is - he's just off to a slow start in strange new surroundings. Happens to best of 'em (see Pujols, Albert).

    It's not like management said "hey we've got this future superstar in Tejada, let's let Reyes go" - it's that they didn't have (or didn't want to spend) the money. Tejada was/is a reasonably priced replacement who's not a horrible ballplayer. The model is for a $50M team going forward, which is why if David Wright gets a $100M offer next year, we'll have a "Justin Turner off to fast start, that Alderson sure is smart" thread here on BBF!
    Tejada is a nice player with upside. While not more talented than Reyes, he's certainly smarter. It makes the loss of Reyes (and I'm a Reyes fan) a bit easier to deal with.
    A fish stinks from the head down. Sell the Mets.

  18. #43
    Amazing how some people just don't get it. All things being equal, of course the Mets would have chosen Reyes over Tejada. But, all things aren't equal. Tejada is 7 years younger and under team control for a moderate cost for the next 5 years. Reyes on the other hand is the highest paid shortstop in the league with six long years of a bloated contract left. You only can have so many high paid guys on a team at once and Reyes is not worth the cost. He's just not an elite player.

    Now, if Tejada sucked, I would get the negative posts but he doesn't suck. He's already shown at just 22 years old that he is a smarter player than Reyes. He has good range, a good arm, and is a great complimentary everyday player. I love that he is doing so well and that its bothering the debbie downers who are still crying about Reyes and his 200 batting average...
    Last edited by Ralf; 05-02-2012 at 08:59 PM.

  19. #44
    I disagree that Tejada is "smarter" - where's that coming from? Not showing up early to camp and p**sing off Collins wasn't what you'd call "smart." But he's young and can learn.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  20. #45
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    Yep, tejada Is just as good as Reyes, at going to the DL!
    unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
    unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
    unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by theAmazingMet View Post
    Yep, tejada Is just as good as Reyes, at going to the DL!
    Such a shame. Let's hope it's not too long. At very least, he's got youth on his side, so the recovery should be quicker than that of a veteran. In the meantime, we'll still have some decent defense with Cedeńo, but I wouldn't count much on his bat.

    And so it goes.
    Put it in the books.

  22. #47
    Half way through the season....

    Ruben
    169 PA, 24 R, 50 H, 13 2B, 3B, HR, 12 RBI, 1 SB, 1 CS, 11 BB, 29 K, .329/.381/.414, 122 OPS+

    Jose
    371 PA, 41 R, 89 H, 18 2B, 6 3B, 3 HR, 21 RBI, 20 SB, 4 CS, 37 BB, 34 K, .270/.341/.388, 96 OPS+

  23. #48
    "You in the right place?" Loria asked Reyes. "You sure you're in the right clubhouse?"

    This was in April, a couple weeks after the Guillen gaffe, the shortstop's first game against his former team, in New York, at Citi Field. I watched the scene on a screen in Secaucus.

    "Yes," Reyes said.

    "So am I," Loria said.

    The show's crew had Reyes wired. In the first inning, he walked to the plate, batting leadoff. Mets fans booed.

    The crew could hear what the crowd could not. "Give that **** to somebody else, man," Reyes said, to himself, if not to his former fans, as he stepped into the batter's box.

    He lined a pitch from Johan Santana deep to left, where the Mets outfielder made a running, leaping catch in front of the 385-foot sign. Reyes rounded first and ran across the infield.

    "****," he said walking back to the dugout.

    "I told you they wouldn't cheer for me," he told teammate Emilio Bonifacio in Spanish.
    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...-miami-marlins

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    Half way through the season....

    Ruben
    169 PA, 24 R, 50 H, 13 2B, 3B, HR, 12 RBI, 1 SB, 1 CS, 11 BB, 29 K, .329/.381/.414, 122 OPS+

    Jose
    371 PA, 41 R, 89 H, 18 2B, 6 3B, 3 HR, 21 RBI, 20 SB, 4 CS, 37 BB, 34 K, .270/.341/.388, 96 OPS+
    Although I didnt want Jose signed for 106 million, and although he isnt having a great season..... If given a choice of which player to take - removing salary - I would take Reyes 7 days a week, and twice on Sunday.

    Tejada is having a very good year, and he may develop into something but Reyes was a good player for a substantial period of time. Something odd about your comparision table above. It seems Tejada only has 169 PA's. Pretty tough to call 38 games half a season when its not even 1/4 of a season.

    To say the Mets dont miss Reyes because Tejada has played 38 games is really over stating it a bit...dont you think?

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    Although I didnt want Jose signed for 106 million, and although he isnt having a great season..... If given a choice of which player to take - removing salary - I would take Reyes 7 days a week, and twice on Sunday.

    Tejada is having a very good year, and he may develop into something but Reyes was a good player for a substantial period of time. Something odd about your comparision table above. It seems Tejada only has 169 PA's. Pretty tough to call 38 games half a season when its not even 1/4 of a season.

    To say the Mets dont miss Reyes because Tejada has played 38 games is really over stating it a bit...dont you think?
    Half way through the season as in games played by the team........and I'm sure Reyes will hit the DL at some point to bring the PAs closer in line.

    I'm not going to pretend that Reyes doesn't have more all around talent but I'm not 100% sold on whether I would chose him over Ruben for my team. It all depends of course on how the team is constructed and the money allocation so you're "choice" is pointless. Reyes is clearly not worth the money he got and that type of contract severely can hamper the flexibility of a franchise. Ruben is cut out of the old mold of SS which is fine by me. He's a solid everyday player and a great piece to a puzzle. He's probably my favorite Met at this point because I enjoy the players that use their head in addition to their talent to succeed. Reyes never consistently showed that in my eyes.

    Well, I've never said it before (so thanks for putting words in my mouth) BUT I will say it now, the Mets as a whole are better off this year without Reyes. I think his antics and "look at me" style of play were too much of a distraction. They relied too heavily on him getting on base and creating something. I want to vomit thinking about every time I heard "as Reyes goes, so do the Mets." This is more of a team effort and I for one enjoy it a whole lot more.

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