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Thread: Justin Verlander 2012

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    "LOLOLOLOLOL"

    How about making a reasoned argument instead of laughing like a hyena and making blanket statements.

    Greinke pitched 21 fewer innings but beat him in ERA plus 205 to 170. Yeah Greinke's season was definitely better.Greinke could have pitched like AJ Burnett for those 21 innings and he'd still have a better season.
    lol so ERA plus is the end all be all stat for Pitchers? Its not even close Verlander's 2011 season shyts all over Greinke's 2009 season

    The only non Maddux/Pedro/Johnson/Clemens season of the last 20 years that might also be better was Kevin Brown's 96 season and maybe if we stretch Glavine's 98 season was comparable with Verlander last year
    Last edited by BondsOverBabe; 04-17-2012 at 10:51 AM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BondsOverBabe View Post
    lol so ERA plus is the end all be all stat for Pitchers? Its not even close Verlander's 2011 season shyts all over Greinke's 2009 season.

    The only non Maddux/Pedro/Johnson/Clemens season of the last 20 years that might also be better was Kevin Brown's 96 season and maybe if we stretch Glavine's 98 season was comparable with Verlander last year
    Very mature. I hope you get banned.

    If you value 21 extra innings over 35 points in ERA+, that's your prerogative. It's a defensible position, I guess. At least try to defend your position instead of making childish comments like "LOLOLOLOLOL" laced with profanity, and not a single statistic or anecdote to support your opinion. Why would you join a site like this, just to ridicule people with whom you disagree?
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    Very mature. I hope you get banned.

    If you value 21 extra innings over 35 points in ERA+, that's your prerogative. It's a defensible position, I guess. At least try to defend your position instead of making childish comments like "LOLOLOLOLOL" laced with profanity, and not a single statistic or anecdote to support your opinion. Why would you join a site like this, just to ridicule people with whom you disagree?
    actually it's closer than you think.

    Using a raw ERA calculation greinke has a small edge.

    let's asume a league average runs of 4.5 (which is reasonable because the reliever that replaces him is quite likely average).
    that would mean 10.5 runs for the 21 IP. greinke allowed 55 ER in that season. add the 10.5 runs and you get to 65.5 runs for 250 innings.

    65.5*9/250=2.36

    verlanders ERA was 2.40 so it was worse but not much. the gap gets a little larger because of the park factor but it's not like it is a blowout.

    WAR reflects that: verlander 8.6 and greinke 9.0

    greinkes season was better but not extremely much.
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    actually it's closer than you think.

    Using a raw ERA calculation greinke has a small edge.

    let's asume a league average runs of 4.5 (which is reasonable because the reliever that replaces him is quite likely average).
    that would mean 10.5 runs for the 21 IP. greinke allowed 55 ER in that season. add the 10.5 runs and you get to 65.5 runs for 250 innings.

    65.5*9/250=2.36

    verlanders ERA was 2.40 so it was worse but not much. the gap gets a little larger because of the park factor but it's not like it is a blowout.

    WAR reflects that: verlander 8.6 and greinke 9.0

    greinkes season was better but not extremely much.
    Very solid research, Dom, but I never said it wasn't close. I agree that they are very close but that Greinke's season is slightly better. If Verlander's was better it certainly isn't laughably so, as BondsOverBabe indicates, and it certainly doesn't "shyt all over Greinke's 2009 season".
    Last edited by GiambiJuice; 04-17-2012 at 12:18 PM.
    My top 10 players:

    1. Babe Ruth
    2. Barry Bonds
    3. Ty Cobb
    4. Ted Williams
    5. Willie Mays
    6. Alex Rodriguez
    7. Hank Aaron
    8. Honus Wagner
    9. Lou Gehrig
    10. Mickey Mantle

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    Very solid research, Dom, but I never said it wasn't close. I agree that they are very close but that Greinke's season is slightly better. If Verlander's was better it certainly isn't laughably so, as BondsOverBabe indicates, and it certainly doesn't "shyt all over Greinke's 2009 season".
    yes that is correct. his statement was really overboard.
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

  6. #26
    Verlander pitched 22 more innings and gave up 21 less hits, I don't think its close. Especially when you consider the terrible fielding of the Tigers and that Verlander was doing it with a competitive team that was playing for something(which while terrible overrated by the media and Yankee fans is actually worth something)
    Last edited by BondsOverBabe; 04-17-2012 at 02:30 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BondsOverBabe View Post
    Verlander pitched 22 more innings and gave up 21 less hits, I don't think its close. Especially when you consider the terrible fielding of the Tigers and that Verlander was doing it with a competitive team that was playing for something(which while terrible overrated by the media and Yankee fans is actually worth something)
    21 less hits....and more than twice as many home runs (24 for Verlander vs. 11 for Greinke).
    My top 10 players:

    1. Babe Ruth
    2. Barry Bonds
    3. Ty Cobb
    4. Ted Williams
    5. Willie Mays
    6. Alex Rodriguez
    7. Hank Aaron
    8. Honus Wagner
    9. Lou Gehrig
    10. Mickey Mantle

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    21 less hits....and more than twice as many home runs (24 for Verlander vs. 11 for Greinke).
    I think verlander is a pitcher that is not very good in preventing HRs. His fastball is very fast but it is also extremely straight without a lot of movement. it really lives on his velocity. It is hard to hit of course but if you are quick enough or cheat a little you can make clean contact and send it a long way.
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    I think verlander is a pitcher that is not very good in preventing HRs. His fastball is very fast but it is also extremely straight without a lot of movement. it really lives on his velocity. It is hard to hit of course but if you are quick enough or cheat a little you can make clean contact and send it a long way.
    A good observation dominik. Verlander is kind of like Robin Roberts in this regard. Roberts threw extremely hard but gave up tons of HRs, 505 home runs in his career.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    A good observation dominik. Verlander is kind of like Robin Roberts in this regard. Roberts threw extremely hard but gave up tons of HRs, 505 home runs in his career.
    randy johnson also I think. doesn't mean you aren't a great pitcher, just not good at one skill.
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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