Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 49

Thread: Orioles BBF franchise HOF second chance round

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,389
    Blog Entries
    34

    Orioles BBF franchise HOF second chance round

    This will be one of three second chance round elections this week. What we'll do for the second chance election is a Yes/No vote requiring the greater of 6 or 75% of the votes to induct. The election will be limited to the listed nominees. The elections will only be open for a week--but there will be at least three or four days for discussion and new nominations. You can abstain from an entire ballot (player or contributor), but if you vote in that portion of the ballot, only the guys you expressly vote yes for get credit for a positive vote. The others in that section of the ballot will be considered to have gotten a "no" vote. There will be no limits on how many nominees you can vote for . I will also provide the nomination discussions for the nominees. The deadline for suggesting nominees is twelve hours before the election begins.


    In this case, the election will not begin until Saturday, April 21 at 7 am EDT, and will end at 7 am EDT April 28. Nominations close 12 hours before the election begins, or April 20 at 7 pm EDT. Ballots not cast within the stated election time frame will not count.


    The Orioles have the following already inducted:

    - Inducted Players (18): Brady Anderson, Mark Belanger, Paul Blair,Harlond Clift, Bobby Grich, Eddie Murray, Mike Mussina, Jim Palmer, Boog Powell, Cal Ripken Jr, Brooks Robinson, Frank Robinson, Urban Shocker, Ken Singleton, George Sisler, Vern Stephens, Bobby Wallace, Ken Williams

    - Inducted Contributors (1): Earl Weaver

    The list of nominees at present is:

    Players
    Roberto Alomar
    Mike Cuellar
    Doug DeCinces
    Mike Flanagan
    Ned Garver
    Chris Hoiles
    Dave Johnson
    Dave McNally
    Rafael Palmiero
    Jack Powell
    George Stone
    Gus Triandos
    Hoyt Wilhelm

    Contributors
    George Bamberger
    Hank Bauer
    Harry Dalton
    Bill DeWitt
    Jerry Hoffberger
    Ray Miller
    Hank Peters
    Paul Richards
    Luke Sewell
    Chuck Thompson
    Last edited by jalbright; 04-19-2012 at 03:13 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,389
    Blog Entries
    34
    George Stone is yet another who received at least 50% of the vote, and so does not need a second.

    He's the third best player in the majors in WAR in the period 1904-08, behind only Honus Wagner and Nap LaJoie. He was the in the top 10 in WAR among position players, and the very best in his league in 1906. He was in the top 10 in average 4 times, in the top 10 in OBP three times, in the top 10 in slugging three times, in the top 10 in runs scored 4 times, in the top 10 in walks drawn 3 times, and in the top 10 in OPS+ 4 times. In short, he was an elite player for a span of four or five years, one of the very best in the game. It's not enough for Cooperstown, but it should be enough for the Oriole/Brown franchise hall.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,389
    Blog Entries
    34
    Paul Wendt mentioned this for Ray Miller as a contributor for the Orioles:
    from Ray Miller at wikipedia
    >>It was announced March 22, 2010 that Miller will be inducted into the Baltimore Orioles Hall of Fame. Press release from mlb.com: "Miller will be enshrined for his work as a pitching coach with the Orioles. He had three stints with the Birds in that role - 1978-85, 1997 and 2004-05.
    <<
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,389
    Blog Entries
    34
    DoubleX had this to say about Bill DeWitt as a contributor for the Orioles:

    Quote Originally Posted by Beady View Post
    I see Bill DeWitt has gotten a number of votes and Luke Sewell none at all. Can I ask why that is?

    I often find it difficult to decide whether the manager of a winning team or the general manager or GM-equivalent should get more credit.
    Bill DeWitt was with the organization I believe for over 20 years, and perhaps as much as 30, rising through the organization in various capacities before becoming general manager and I believe a part owner for about 15 years. So I think he played a much bigger role in the organization, especially given the length of his service, than Sewell did during his six year managerial run.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,389
    Blog Entries
    34
    hwmongoose made this pitch for Chuck Thompson as a contributor for the Orioles:
    Quote Originally Posted by hwmongoose View Post
    Contributors:
    Chuck Thompson, longtime radio announcer extraordinaire
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,389
    Blog Entries
    34
    Here's JW's case for Dave McNally for the Orioles:
    Quote Originally Posted by J W View Post
    McNally is not favored by the WAR system (21.2 WAR in 13 seasons) but then, none of the pitchers for the Baltimore Orioles in their glory years are. McNally is a consummate Oriole having spent nearly his entire career there. He won 183 games for the Orioles at a .616 clip, sported a proud 3.18 ERA (108 ERA+), a 1.203 WHIP and was durable, starting over 30 games eight times (averaging 226 IP per 162 games). He has three top-five CYA finishes, getting as close as 2nd in 1970. He also finished 5th in MVP voting in 1968, his best season (152 ERA+, 0.842 WHIP!). What seals the deal is his postseason performance: 14 games (12 started), 7-4, 2.49 ERA, 1.096 WHIP and four World Series appearances (winning twice).
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Out in left field
    Posts
    4,798
    Jack Powell
    24.7 pWAR (4th in franchise history)
    2.63 ERA (7th)
    117 W (8th)
    1.152 WHIP (13th)
    1.962 BB/9 (4th)
    294 GP (18th)
    2229.7 IP (4th)
    884 SO (9th)
    264 GS (7th)
    210 CG (2nd)
    27 SHO (4th)
    1.819 SO/BB (22nd)
    8901 BF (5th)
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! ***

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Out in left field
    Posts
    4,798
    Luke Sewell (for contributor)
    850 games managed (4th in franchise history)
    432 wins (4th)
    0.513 W-L% (7th)
    1 AL pennant (1944) -- this is the Browns, mind you
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! ***

  9. #9
    Nominate Paul Richards

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,389
    Blog Entries
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by hwmongoose View Post
    Nominate Paul Richards
    If you want him nominated, you or someone else will have to present the case why he belongs in the Oriole Hall. It doesn't take a lot, as you can see from posts 3, 4 and 8.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
    Posts
    7,579
    Paul Richards

    Richards should certainly be nominated as he was the original architect of the Orioles, serving as both general manager and field manager for the team in their first seven years since moving from St Louis. He moved on to the fledgeling Colt 45s after the 1961 season. Under Richards' watch, the Orioles gathered and developed much of the talent that blossomed in the 1960s, concentrating on strong pitching and defense.
    Last edited by J W; 04-17-2012 at 02:09 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
    Posts
    7,579
    Hank Bauer

    Bauer enjoyed a brief but successful stint at manager for the Orioles from 1964-1968. His teams won 90 games four out of those five seasons, with their peak performance being a stunning sweep of the Dodgers in the 1966 World Series. Unfortunately for him, his service was terminated in favor of one Earl Weaver.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
    Posts
    7,579
    Harry Dalton

    Dalton is one of the five names I voted for last time as a contributor. He was general manager of the Orioles from 1966 to 1971. Under his watch, the Orioles went to four World Series, winning twice. He brokered the deal for Frank Robinson, hired Earl Weaver, and maintained the success in scouting and development that made the Orioles the team with the highest winning percentage for over two decades.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
    Posts
    7,579
    Hank Peters

    Peters is one of the five names I voted for last time as a contributor. He was general manager of the Orioles from 1975 to 1987. If Paul Richards represents the beginning and Harry Dalton the middle of the Orioles dynasty, Peters represents the end. Under his watch the team went to two World Series, winning once. Peters probably had the stiffest competition of the three, butting heads against George Steinbrenner's Yankees along with the Red Sox of the 70s, Brewers of the late 70s-early 80s and Tigers of the 80s. After the 1983 season when they won their last World Series, the team took a nose dive under relatively new ownership of Edward Bennett Williams, and Peters' track record suffered for it.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
    Posts
    7,579
    George Bamberger

    Another of my former votes... Bamberger was the predecessor to Ray Miller. He was pitching coach for Earl Weaver's Oriole teams from 1968 to 1977. Under his 20-year watch, Baltimore Oriole pitchers won 20 games in a season 18 times, including a fabled 4 times in one season in 1971. His pitchers also captured four Cy Young Awards (Jim Palmer three times and Mike Cuellar once). Many people in the business consider Bamberger the best pitching coach they ever saw.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
    Posts
    7,579
    Jerry Hoffberger

    My final nomination as a contributor... Hoffberger was the man at the top from the inception of the Orioles through 1979. He began as a majority owner before taking full ownership in 1965. After suffering through a few growing pains, the team broke through in 1960, winning 89 games and finishing second in their Division. From there, the run was on. From 1960 until the end of his tenure as owner, a full two decades, the team finished below .500 twice. Hoffberger sold his team to Edward Bennett Williams after the 1979 season, which for older fans in Baltimore signifies the beginning of the end of the dynasty.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,389
    Blog Entries
    34
    JW's contributor nominees have been added to the list of candidates for this second chance election.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,389
    Blog Entries
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by J W View Post
    Jerry Hoffberger

    My final nomination as a contributor... Hoffberger was the man at the top from the inception of the Orioles through 1979. He began as a majority owner before taking full ownership in 1965. After suffering through a few growing pains, the team broke through in 1960, winning 89 games and finishing second in their Division. From there, the run was on. From 1960 until the end of his tenure as owner, a full two decades, the team finished below .500 twice. Hoffberger sold his team to Edward Bennett Williams after the 1979 season, which for older fans in Baltimore signifies the beginning of the end of the dynasty.
    My question in terms of getting my vote is this: how much was Hoffberger responsible for he success of the team on the field? Was he the one who hired Paul Richards or some of the other nominees? If he's just a money guy who moved the team to Baltimore, I'm not likely to vote for him.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    My question in terms of getting my vote is this: how much was Hoffberger responsible for he success of the team on the field? Was he the one who hired Paul Richards or some of the other nominees? If he's just a money guy who moved the team to Baltimore, I'm not likely to vote for him.
    Hoffberger also helped to convince the Senators's Clark Griffith, who was opposed to the Baltimore move, to allow the St. Louis Browns' move to Baltimore by making his National Bohemian beer a Senators sponsor.

  20. #20
    Rafael Palmeiro
    .284/.366/.520
    127 OPS+
    Hits - 1071
    HRs - 223
    RBIs - 701
    Stolen Bases - 38 for 52 - 73.1%

    All Star (1998) - went 2 for 2 in the Game
    2x Gold Glove (1997,1998)
    Silver Slugger (1998)

    Team Career Records :
    3rd in SLG (500 game min.), ISO (500 game min.)
    5th in HRs
    6th in OPS+ (1000 game min.)
    8th in WAR Runs Batting
    11th in RBIs

    4 30-HR seasons :
    Code:
                                                         
    Rk                   Yrs From   To                Age
    1       Eddie Murray   5 1980 1987 24-31 Ind. Seasons
    2    Rafael Palmeiro   4 1995 1998 30-33 Ind. Seasons
    3        Boog Powell   4 1964 1970 22-28 Ind. Seasons
    4     Frank Robinson   3 1966 1969 30-33 Ind. Seasons
    5        Jim Gentile   2 1961 1962 27-28 Ind. Seasons
    4 100-RBI seasons :
    Code:
                                                            
    Rk                      Yrs From   To                Age
    1          Eddie Murray   5 1980 1985 24-29 Ind. Seasons
    2       Rafael Palmeiro   4 1995 1998 30-33 Ind. Seasons
    3            Cal Ripken   4 1983 1996 22-35 Ind. Seasons
    4         George Sisler   4 1920 1925 27-32 Ind. Seasons
    5           Boog Powell   3 1966 1970 24-28 Ind. Seasons
    6          Goose Goslin   3 1930 1932 29-31 Ind. Seasons
    7             Red Kress   3 1929 1931 24-26 Ind. Seasons
    8          Ken Williams   3 1921 1925 31-35 Ind. Seasons
    4 .500-SLG seasons (100 game min.) :
    Code:
                                                            
    Rk                      Yrs From   To                Age
    1          Ken Williams   7 1921 1927 31-37 Ind. Seasons
    2          Eddie Murray   5 1980 1985 24-29 Ind. Seasons
    3        Frank Robinson   5 1966 1971 30-35 Ind. Seasons
    4       Rafael Palmeiro   4 1994 1998 29-33 Ind. Seasons
    5           Boog Powell   4 1964 1970 22-28 Ind. Seasons
    6         George Sisler   4 1919 1922 26-29 Ind. Seasons
    7         Harold Baines   3 1993 1999 34-40 Ind. Seasons
    8            Cal Ripken   3 1983 1991 22-30 Ind. Seasons
    9         Harlond Clift   3 1936 1938 23-25 Ind. Seasons
    10   Baby Doll Jacobson   3 1920 1925 29-34 Ind. Seasons
    Led League in "
    Assists at 1B (1995,1996,1998)
    Total Zone Runs at 1B (1998)
    Range Factor/9 at 1B (1998)
    Range Factor/Game at 1B (1998)
    Last edited by dgarza; 04-16-2012 at 01:54 PM.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by J W View Post
    Paul Richards

    Richards should certainly be nominated as he was the original architect of the Orioles, serving as both general manager and field manager for the team in their first seven years since moving from Cleveland. He moved on to the fledgeling Colt 45s after the 1961 season. Under Richards' watch, the Orioles gathered and developed much of the talent that blossomed in the 1960s, concentrating on strong pitching and defense.
    I agree with the nomination of Paul Richards, but the team came from Saint Louis, not Cleveland.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
    Posts
    7,579
    Brain fart. Funny how both teams that came to Baltimore were named the Browns though.

    Regarding Hoffberger... I think ultimately he was a money man; however, the money came from a few blocks away at the National Bohemian beer company and the environment that Hoffberger created at both his factory and at Memorial Stadium fostered success for the team. Hoffberger knew everybody in the organization by name and they knew him. Harry Dalton is the man synonymous with Hoffberger, who hired him one year after taking over as principal owner in '65. Pretty much every big star who played for the Orioles in the 60s-70s showed up at his funeral in 1999.

    I'll have a few player nominations later if no one else offers them.
    Last edited by J W; 04-17-2012 at 02:36 AM.

  23. #23
    Hoyt Wilhelm
    6x All Star
    twice in 1959
    twice in 1961
    twice in 1962

    As a Starter, Led League :
    pWAR (1959)
    ERA (1959)
    ERA+ (1959)

    Wilhelm's 173 ERA+ in 1959 is the highest in team's history.
    His 7.4 pWAR in 1959 is the 3rd best in team's history.

    Team Career Records :
    1st in ERA+ (500 IP min.)
    Code:
                                
    Rk               Player ERA+
    1          Hoyt Wilhelm  156
    2            Stu Miller  145
    3          Mike Mussina  130
    4           Billy ODell  128
    5         Urban Shocker  127
    2nd in Oppnt. OPS+ (500 IP min.) [limited historical data]
    3rd in H/9 (500 IP min.)
    5th in WHIP (500 IP min.)
    7th in K/9 (500 IP min.)
    9th in K/BB (500 IP min.)

    No Hitter in Sept. 1958.

    Inducted into the Hall of Fame by BBWAA as Player in 1985

  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Appalachia
    Posts
    9,138
    I know the 1890's Orioles aren't in any way the same franchise but I'm just curious if guys like Keeler, Jennings, McGraw, etc. are included in the Orioles hall?
    "I go all out, and I'm going to bring that to the table everyday. In good times and in bad times." - Eric Byrnes
    "As long as I have fun playing, the stats will take care of themselves." - Ken Griffey Jr.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,389
    Blog Entries
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky5 View Post
    I know the 1890's Orioles aren't in any way the same franchise but I'm just curious if guys like Keeler, Jennings, McGraw, etc. are included in the Orioles hall?
    Those guys aren't considered part of the Browns/Orioles group in this project. However, they are part of a group in this project, the Defunct NL teams. Really, except for international guys (Japan, Mexico, Cuba, etc) and minor leagues, we're not leaving any league/teams with more than a two year history out in the cold. The Federal League, Union Association, and Players League are all orphans--but that's it.
    Last edited by jalbright; 04-17-2012 at 05:32 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •