The All-Time Yankee Pitching Rotation

[BaronSamedi]

Now, it's a safe bet that the team that won more championships than any other professional sports team on the planet Earth would be loaded with all-time great players, and naturally, the Yankees are. However, I do wonder if a team of the Yankees' best and brightest could beat the best and brightest of a lot of other teams, because its become apparent to me that the Yankees don't have the best pitching rotation in the world.

Obviously there's Whitey Ford, plus between Lyle, Rivera, and Gossage, the world's greatest army of closers. But Whitey isn't going to start every game, so who is going to go on before the closers can slam the door? The Yankees have a lot of very good pitchers - you don't win the World Series if you don't have reliable starting pitching. But while the Yankees have been good, very few of their name pitchers have been both transcendent AND identified as Yankees primarily. Catfish was an Athletic, Rocket played for the Red Sox, Gomez was mortal...

My Yankees starting rotation would look like this:
Whitey Ford
Jack Chesbro
Allie Reynolds
Catfish Hunter
Andy Pettitte

What are others' thoughts?

[chicagowhitesox1173]

I'd have Ruffing or Guidry on there before Hunter. Even Stottlemyre was a better Yankee pitcher. Lefty Gomez should be mentioned too.

[BaronSamedi]

I'd have Ruffing or Guidry on there before Hunter. Even Stottlemyre was a better Yankee pitcher. Lefty Gomez should be mentioned too.

I don't know, Gomez to me seemed interchangeable with a handful of other Yankee pitchers.

[YankeeRLA1968]

I'd have Ruffing or Guidry on there before Hunter. Even Stottlemyre was a better Yankee pitcher. Lefty Gomez should be mentioned too.

Yea respectfully...not sure how you leave off Guidry. He was the ace of those late 70's title teams. Cy Young in 1978 with 25 wins and 3 losses.

[tag0519]

I'd include Guidry as well. And maybe Waite Hoyt too.

[elmer]

Hoyt
Ford
Reynolds
Guidry
Chesbro
Chandler

[elmer]

& Edmond Lopat

[YankeeRLA1968]

Hoyt
Ford
Reynolds
Guidry
Chesbro
Chandler

Not sure about the real oldies on this list. (Jack)Chesbro and (Spud)Chandler both had impressive seasons back when guys started 50 to 60 games.

Give me guys that did it in the post season if you are talking the Yankees.

[Blackout]

Ford
Guidry
Ruffing
Sabathia
Pettitte

Rivera at closer duh

[chicagowhitesox1173]

I always liked Waite Hoyt and Red Ruffing but if there were two guys who may have benefited from the Yankees sluggers it was probaly those two guys. It's hard to say for me which ones are the best but off the top of my head i'd go with these guys.

1. Whitey Ford
2. Ron Guidry
3. Red Ruffing
4. Mel Stottlemyre...I always thought alot of him because he pitched for some really bad Yankee teams and still had a good career with em.
5. Andy Pettite
6. Allie Reynolds
7. Lefty Gomez
8. Jack Chesbro
9. Waite Hoyt
10. C.C. Sabathia.....He will go higher on the list soon i'm sure

There is probaly arguments on these top 10 and i'm sure I forgot a few too. Mariano could almost be argued as the best but I went only starting pitching.

[BaronSamedi]

I would have placed Sabathia on my list if he were around for a few more years. But pitchers have notoriously finicky arms, so for now, I'll wait.

[YankeeRLA1968]

I would have placed Sabathia on my list if he were around for a few more years. But pitchers have notoriously finicky arms, so for now, I'll wait.

Yes respectfully to CC....he has to pitch a few more years. I would sooner put David Cone, Roger Clemens and even David Wells for that matter on the list.

[BaronSamedi]

There is probaly arguments on these top 10 and i'm sure I forgot a few too. Mariano could almost be argued as the best but I went only starting pitching.

Well, starting pitching was the reason I created this thread - I recently got to thinking about an all-time Yankee starting rotation and how it would hold up against other teams' all-stars. It's hard for me to consider the Yankees' starting pitching lineup back to 1903 and believe it's as dominating and transcendent as, say, the Dodgers (Koufax, Drysdale, Vance, Hershiser), Cardinals (Gibson, Dean, Carpenter), Cubs (this lineup would be unhittable: Maddux, Brown, Jenkins, Alexander, Sutcliffe), or Phillies (Carlton, Roberts, Alexander, Halladay). I expect better from a 27-time champion.

I can't believe I forgot Gid.

And no one is arguing the strength and power of the Bombers' pen. Rivera is considered the greatest closer even, and more knowledgeable sabremetricians put up a strong fight in giving that same title to Gossage. Lyle was an all-star and a Cy Young winner.

[DoubleX]

I don't think you can leave out Ruffing (231-141 and 119 ERA+ as a Yankee) who may be the best pitcher in the franchise's history after Ford. Ruffing may well have won 300 career games if not for missing 2+ seasons to WWII.

My starting five would be:

Whitey Ford
Red Ruffing
Andy Pettitte
Lefty Gomez
Ron Guidry

[The Monument]

Ford,Ruffing,Gomez,Reynolds,Stottlemyre. Bullpen-Mo,Gossage,Lyle,Page,Murphy,McDaniel--would be hard to keep all those relievers both busy and happy. I've mentioned before that even the genius Billy Martin couldn't figure out how to use both Lyle and Gossage.

[YankeeRLA1968]

Well, starting pitching was the reason I created this thread - I recently got to thinking about an all-time Yankee starting rotation and how it would hold up against other teams' all-stars. It's hard for me to consider the Yankees' starting pitching lineup back to 1903 and believe it's as dominating and transcendent as, say, the Dodgers (Koufax, Drysdale, Vance, Hershiser), Cardinals (Gibson, Dean, Carpenter), Cubs (this lineup would be unhittable: Maddux, Brown, Jenkins, Alexander, Sutcliffe), or Phillies (Carlton, Roberts, Alexander, Halladay). I expect better from a 27-time champion.

I can't believe I forgot Gid.

And no one is arguing the strength and power of the Bombers' pen. Rivera is considered the greatest closer even, and more knowledgeable sabremetricians put up a strong fight in giving that same title to Gossage. Lyle was an all-star and a Cy Young winner.

LOL. The Yankees strength has been their offense for many of those 27 title teams. I wouldn't rack your brain too much when going against rotations including pitchers from many different eras. I think you are correct in assuming that there are teams that could put together a better starting 5 rotation...considering they can pick from the last 100 years.

[BaronSamedi]

LOL. The Yankees strength has been their offense for many of those 27 title teams. I wouldn't rack your brain too much when going against rotations including pitchers from many different eras. I think you are correct in assuming that there are teams that could put together a better starting 5 rotation...considering they can pick from the last 100 years.

No arguing that! Try piecing together a whole all-time Yankee team would yield the interesting problem of what to do with all those outfielders.

[GiambiJuice]

The Yanks have a surprisingly weak all-time pitching staff for such a dominant franchise.

Here are the Yankee pitching leaders ranked by pitching WAR.

1 Rivera 56.3
2 Ford 55.3
3 Ruffing 49.7
4 Guidry 44.4
5 Gomez 43.2
6 Pettitte 42.4
7 Stottlemyre 37.9
8 Shawkey 37.6
9 Hoyt 31.0
10 Mussina 30.3

[chicagowhitesox1173]

I would say the teams with the best alltime pitching staffs are the Giants and A's.

[GiambiJuice]

I would say the teams with the best alltime pitching staffs are the Giants and A's.

You may be right, but the MIL/ATL Braves are way up there too.

It's tough to beat a five-man rotation of Maddux, Spahn, Smoltz, Glavine, and Niekro. All five of these had over 55 pitching WAR with the Braves and are current or future Hall Of Famers.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

You may be right, but the MIL/ATL Braves are way up there too.

It's tough to beat a five-man rotation of Maddux, Spahn, Smoltz, Glavine, and Niekro. All five of these had over 55 pitching WAR with the Braves and are current or future Hall Of Famers.

Thats true I forgot about them. Those three teams would have to be the top 3.

[DoubleX]

I would say the teams with the best alltime pitching staffs are the Giants and A's.

I think the Red Sox are also in the conversation with: Cy Young, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, and Lefty Grove paving the way. These are four of the twelve best pitchers ever, IMO.

[BaronSamedi]

You'll have to forgive my ignorance of basic sabremetrics here, but I don't know what WAR is, nor do I know what's considered good WAR.

If I did, I might agree, but since I don't those Cub and Phillie rotations look awfully good too.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

You'll have to forgive my ignorance of basic sabremetrics here, but I don't know what WAR is, nor do I know what's considered good WAR.

If I did, I might agree, but since I don't those Cub and Phillie rotations look awfully good too.

I never knew what war was until recently and I think i've come around to accepting it as a good way to determine a career. I actually look at a players war like I would a players average or wins totals now. I would say around 70+ war would be a pretty good career.

[NYYankeesFan92]

#1. Whitey Ford
#2. Lefty Gomez
#3. Red Ruffing
#4. Andy Pettitte
#5. Ron Guidry