Indians BBF HOF second chance election

[jalbright]

This will be one of three second chance round elections this week. What we'll do for the second chance election is a Yes/No vote requiring the greater of 6 or 75% of the votes to induct. The election will be limited to the listed nominees. The elections will only be open for a week--but there will be at least three or four days for discussion and new nominations. You can abstain from an entire ballot (player or contributor), but if you vote in that portion of the ballot, only the guys you expressly vote yes for get credit for a positive vote. The others in that section of the ballot will be considered to have gotten a "no" vote. There will be no limits on how many nominees you can vote for . I will also provide the nomination discussions for the nominees. The deadline for suggesting nominees is twelve hours before the election begins.

In this case, the election will not begin until Saturday, May 5 at 7 am EDT, and will end at 7 am EDT May 12. Nominations close 12 hours before the election begins, or May 11 at 7 pm EDT. Ballots not cast within the stated election time frame will not count.

The Indians have the following already inducted:

- Inducted Players (22): Earl Averill, Bobby Avila, Albert Belle, Lou Boudreau, Rocky Colavito, Stan Coveleski, Larry Doby, Bob Feller, Elmer Flick, Mel Harder, Addie Joss, Ken Keltner, Napoleon Lajoie, Bob Lemon, Kenny Lofton, Sam McDowell, Gaylord Perry, Manny Ramirez, Al Rosen, Joe Sewell, Tris Speaker, Early Wynn

- Inducted Contributors (4): Mike Hargrove, John Hart, Al Lopez, Bill Veeck


The list of nominees at present is:

Players
Roberto Alomar
Sandy Alomar Jr.
Carlos Baerga
Bill Bradley
Ray Chapman
Wes Ferrell
Mike Garcia
Joe Gordon
Jeff Heath
Joe Jackson
Charlie Jamieson
Charles Nagy
Andre Thornton
Luis Tiant
Hal Trosky
Terry Turner

Contributors
Herb Score
Charles Somers

[jalbright]

Wes Ferrell was at least arguably at his best while an Indian.

He was in the top 10 in WAR 4 times for the club;
In 1939-32 he had 2d, 3d, 4th and 6th place finishes in WAR among P;
He was in the top 10 in ERA 4 times for the club;
He was in the top 10 in W/L percentage 4 times for the club;
He was in the top 4 in wins 4 times for the club;
He was in the top 10 in strikeouts per nine IP three times for the club;
He was in the top 10 in complete games five times for the club;
He was in the top 4 in IP three times for the club; and
He was in the top 10 in strikeouts 4 times for the club.

I might add that during his time with the Indians, he had the 7th most WAR among pitchers in the majors.

[jalbright]

DoubleX made this argument for Herb Score as a contributor for the Indians:

Noteworthy for contributions as a player and long-time broadcaster

[jalbright]

I'll also nominate Ray Chapman for the Indians. He spent his whole career with the Tribe, and received a fatal wound from a beaning while wearing their uniform. During the time of his career, 1912-1920, he has the most WAR of any shortstop in the majors. In single season terms, he was the WAR leader among AL shortstops in 1915, 1917, 1918, and 1920 (despite dying with about a month to go in the season), and he was second among AL shortstops in 1919. He belongs in the Indian HOF.

[jalbright]

Bill Bradley of the Indians is another who has gotten at least 50% of the vote, and thus doesn't need a second.

He was with the franchise when it began in 1901, and was the 3rd best 3B in WAR in the majors that year. In 02-04, he was the best 3B by WAR in the game, and was twice the second best player in his league, and 4th the other. In 05, he was the second best 3B in the game by WAR, and then in 06 he was the third best 3B in the game that year, but the best in the AL, again all by WAR. He didn't have a very good year in 07, but rebounded in 08 to be the second best 3B in the AL by WAR. Seven years of all-star quality third base play in eight years is quite an accomplishment, and it should be enough to get him into the Indian franchise HOF.

[jalbright]

Joe Jackson got 50% for the Indians, so doesn't need a second for that franchise. He's another high peak, sort of short time guy for a franchise.

Just in his time with the Tribe:

Among position players, he was in the top 10 in WAR four times, three of them being a 2d, a 3d and a 4th;
He was in the top 4 in average 4 times, three of them seconds;
He was in the top 4 in OBP four times, one of them a first and two more seconds;
Counting 1915, when he was traded in August from the Indians, he was in the top 4 in slugging 5 times, one a first and two more seconds;
He was in the top three in runs scored three times;
He was in the top 10 in RBI four times;
He was twice in the top 10 in steals; and
He was in the top 5 in OPS+ five times.

Really, he was the best player in the game not named Ty Cobb for those years. He was an honest player as an Indian, and I think all that merits recognition.

[jalbright]

Mike Garcia was a fine pitcher for the Indians, and at least 50% of the voters supported his candidacy, so no second is needed.

Garcia is well represented in the Tribe's career pitching leaderboard:
8th in career WAR;
9th in career wins;
9th in career IP;
9th in career K; and
5th in career shutouts.

He had quite a few individual seasons among the best pitchers in the AL:
Six times he was in the top 10 in pitching WAR;
Five times he was in the top 10 in ERA (2 titles);
Five times he was in the top 10 in won/loss percentage;
Five times he was in the top 10 in WHIP;
Five times he was in the top 10 in K/9 IP;
Four times he was in the top 10 in IP;
Five times he was in the top 10 in strikeouts; and
Five times he was in the top 10 in shutouts.

Seems to me that should be enough to get him into the Indian franchise HOF.

[DJC]

Terry Turner
31.0 WAR/pos (13th in franchise history)
23.7 oWAR (20th)
7.3 dWAR (4th)
1619 G (1st)
5787 AB (3rd)
6512 PA (7th)
692 R (14th)
1472 H (10th)
1854 TB (16th)
204 2B (22nd)
77 3B (9th)
521 RBI (24th)
430 BB (tied for 23rd)
254 SB (3rd)
1183 1B (7th)
1936 TOB (12th)

Hal Trosky
26.6 WAR/pos (20th in franchise history)
28.6 oWAR (16th)
0.313 BA (12th)
0.379 OBP (21st)
0.551 SLG (4th)
0.930 OPS (7th)
1124 G (21st)
4365 AB (15th)
4854 PA (19th)
758 R (11th)
1365 H (11th)
2406 TB (6th)
287 2B (9th)
53 TB (18th)
216 HR (5th)
911 RBI (4th)
449 BB (21st)
809 1B (20th)
135 OPS+ (16th)
556 XBH (4th)
1829 TOB (14th)
20.2 AB/HR (12th)

Charlie Jamieson
21.4 WAR/pos (26th in franchise history)
0.316 BA (11th)
0.388 OBP (13th)
1483 G (9th)
5551 AB (8th)
6358 PA (8th)
942 R (4th)
1753 H (5th)
2251 TB (9th)
296 2B (7th)
74 3B (tied for 10th)
627 BB (9th)
107 SB (22nd)
1365 1B (2nd)
388 XBH (17th)
2411 TOB (6th)

Luis Tiant
23.0 pWAR (14th in franchise history)
2.84 ERA (16th)
75 W (tied for 23rd)
1.143 WHIP (7th)
7.043 H/9 (4th)
7.808 SO/9 (3rd)
1200 IP (25th)
1041 SO (10th)
160 GS (tied for 22nd)
63 CG (tied for 23rd)
21 SHO (9th)
2.41 SO/BB (11th)
120 ERA+ (12th)

[jjpm74]

I'll second all of DJC's above nominees if they need seconding.

[jalbright]

I've guaranteed the second for any reasonable argument made by anyone other than myself, and there's no question his arguments meet that standard. My own arguments only need a second if the guy didn't get 50% or more of the vote (minimum 3 votes for).

[dgarza]

Roberto Alomar
Indians stats :
.323/.405/.515
134 OPS+
20.6 WAR - Cleveland was the team he had the most for - Alomar is in the Blue Jays HOF, but he was better with the Indians, so I think he should be there as well
106 Stolen Bases - 86.9%

According to WAR, best 2 seasons of career came in Cleveland (1999, 7.9 & 2001, 7.8)

All-Star Games
1999 (2B)
2000 (2B)
2001 *

Gold Gloves
1999 AL (2B)
2000 AL (2B)
2001 AL (2B)

Silver Sluggers
1999 AL (2B)
2000 AL (2B)

MVP (yr lg (rk, shr))
1999 AL (3, 57%)
2001 AL (4, 42%)

Lead League in :
Runs (1999)
Sac. Flies (1999)
Stolen Base % (2000)
Assists at 2B (2000)
Fielding % at 2B (1999,2001)

Cleveland Career 2B Team Records (400 game min.) :
1st in OBP, SLG
2nd in OPS+, AVG, ISO, SB%

Batted .368/.409/.579 in the 1999 ALDS.

WAR does more than suggest Alomar was the best 2B in the majors from 1999-2001 :

                                            
Rk              Player WAR/pos   G From   To
1       Roberto Alomar    20.6 471 1999 2001
2            Jeff Kent    16.7 456 1999 2001
3      Edgardo Alfonzo    13.4 432 1999 2001
4        Randy Velarde    10.3 371 1999 2001
5         Craig Biggio     9.5 416 1999 2001

Inducted into the Hall of Fame by BBWAA as Player in 2011.

[dgarza]

Sandy Alomar Jr
1990 AL Rookie of the Year

All-Star Games
1990 (C) - first rookie catcher to start an All-Star game
1991 (C)
1992 (C)
1996 *
1997 *
1998 *

Gold Gloves
1990 AL (C)

1997 ML AS MVP - hitting a game-deciding two-run home run

World Series stats :

                                                                                                                  
Year   Age  Tm Lg Series Opp Rslt  G PA AB R  H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO   BA  OBP  SLG   OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
1995    29 CLE AL     WS ATL    L  5 15 15 0  3  2  0  0   1  0  0  0  2 .200 .200 .333  .533  5   0   0  0  0   0
1997    31 CLE AL     WS FLA    L  7 32 30 5 11  1  0  2  10  0  0  2  3 .367 .406 .600 1.006 18   2   0  0  0   1
2 WS                              12 47 45 5 14  3  0  2  11  0  0  2  5 .311 .340 .511  .852 23   2   0  0  0   1

Put together a 30-game hitting streak (one short of Nap Lajoie's Indians record and four short of his former teammate Benito Santiago's record for catchers).

First base coach for the Cleveland Indians.
Bench coach for the Cleveland Indians.

On August 1, 2009, the Cleveland Indians inducted Sandy Alomar Jr. to their Hall of Fame.

[dgarza]

Charles Somers
Charles Somers was the founding owner of the Cleveland franchise in the American League.
The franchise was the first to establish a farm system, when Somers acquired minor league teams in Waterbury, CT, Toledo, OH, Ironton, OH, New Orleans, LA and Portland, OR.

[jalbright]

About 7 hours left for nominations.

[dgarza]

Charles Nagy
Perhaps not the most flashy pitcher, but Nagy is the winningest pitcher for the Indians in the last 60 years.

Record :
129-105
.551 %

All-Star Games
1992 *
1996 (P)
1999

6x 15-game winner :

                                                       
Rk                     Yrs From   To                Age
1           Bob Feller  10 1938 1951 19-32 Ind. Seasons
2            Bob Lemon   9 1948 1956 27-35 Ind. Seasons
3           Mel Harder   8 1932 1939 22-29 Ind. Seasons
4       Stan Coveleski   8 1916 1924 26-34 Ind. Seasons
5           Early Wynn   7 1950 1956 30-36 Ind. Seasons
6         Charles Nagy   6 1992 1999 25-32 Ind. Seasons
7           Addie Joss   6 1902 1908 22-28 Ind. Seasons

Franchise career team records :
6th in Starts, Strikeouts
10th in Wins
11th in Innings

[dgarza]

Jeff Heath
Indian stats :
.298/.366/.506
137 OPS+

All-Star Games
1941 (RF)
1943 *

Cleveland career records (500 game min.) :
5th in Triples
9th in SLG
t10th in OPS+

Led League in :
Triples (1938,1941)
Power/Speed (1941)
Assists at RF (1941)

Best OPS+ for Cleveland in '30s & '40s (500 game min.):

                                           
Rk               Player OPS+    G From   To
1            Jeff Heath  137  957 1936 1945
2          Earl Averill  136 1358 1930 1939
3            Hal Trosky  135 1124 1933 1941
4          Lou Boudreau  124 1479 1938 1949
5        Bruce Campbell  118  553 1935 1939

Probably a Top 5 LFer in the AL for the '30s and '40s.

[dgarza]

Andre Thornton
Cleveland stats:

                                                             
Year   Age  Tm  Lg    G    H  HR RBI   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS OPS+
CLE (10 yrs)       1225 1095 214 749 .254 .355 .453 .809  122

1979 ML Roberto Clemente Award

1982 ML Hutch Award

All-Star Games
1982 *
1984 *

Silver Sluggers
1984 AL (DH)

Indian career records :
7th in HRs, Walks

Most Indian HRs & RBIs in '70s & '80s.

Was inducted into the Indians Hall of Fame on Aug, 11, 2007.

[dgarza]

Carlos Baerga
Stats :
.299/.339/.444
109 OPS+

All-Star Games
1992 *
1993 *
1995 (2B)

Silver Sluggers
1993 AL (2B)
1994 AL (2B)

Lead League in :
Singles (1992)
Putouts at 2B (1992,1993)
Assists at 2B (1992,1993,1995)
Range Factor/Game at 2B (1992,1993)

Baerga became the first second baseman since Rogers Hornsby in 1922 to have back-to-back 200+ hit, 20+ home run, 100+ RBI, and .300+ average seasons when he accomplished the feat in 1992–93.

[dgarza]

Joe Gordon
Stats :

                                               
Year   Age  Tm  Lg  HR   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS OPS+
CLE (4 yrs)        100 .262 .354 .463 .817  120

All-Star Games
1947 (2B)
1948 (2B)
1949 *

Led League in :
Defensive WAR (1949)
Assists at 2B (1947)

Gordon also managed the Indians :

                                                                          
Rk   Year Age                Tm                 Lg   G   W   L W-L% Finish
1    1958  43 Cleveland Indians        AL 2nd of 2  86  46  40 .535      4
2    1959  44 Cleveland Indians                 AL 154  89  65 .578      2
3    1960  45 Cleveland Indians        AL 1st of 3  95  49  46 .516      4
                        Cleveland Indians  3 years 335 184 151 .549    3.3

Part of the unusual trade of one manager for another.

On August 16, 2008, Gordon was inducted into the Cleveland Indians Hall of Fame.
Inducted into the Hall of Fame by Veteran's Committee as Player in 2009.

[jalbright]

Nominations are closed.

[NJRob65]

Players:

Roberto Alomar-N

Sandy Alomar Jr.-N

Carlos Baerga-N

Bill Bradley-Y

Ray Chapman-Y

Wes Ferrell-Y

Mike Garcia-Y

Joe Gordon-N

Jeff Heath-N

Joe Jackson-Y

Charlie Jamieson-N

Charles Nagy-N

Andre Thornton-N

Luis Tiant-N

Hal Trosky-Y

Terry Turner-Y

Contributor:

Herb Score-Y

Charles Somers-Y

[dgarza]

Noticed that a few of my nominations (R. Alomor, S. Alomar Jr & Charles Somers) did not make the final ballot. It is because they were not seconded?

[jalbright]

Noticed that a few of my nominations (R. Alomar, S. Alomar Jr & Charles Somers) did not make the final ballot. It is because they were not seconded?

No, it's an oversight. I will PM NJRob to alert him to the issue and seek his votes on those three candidates.

[jalbright]

This election has been open since before NJRob's vote, which counts. I've PM'd him to try and address my oversight, but even if he doesn't respond, it counts. Were that to happen and counting his vote as an abstention on those candidates would get them elected, I will do so.

Players
Roberto Alomar-Y
Sandy Alomar Jr.-N
Carlos Baerga-Y
Bill Bradley-Y
Ray Chapman-Y
Wes Ferrell-Y
Mike Garcia-Y
Joe Gordon-Y
Jeff Heath-N
Joe Jackson-Y
Charlie Jamieson-N
Charles Nagy-Y
Andre Thornton-N
Luis Tiant-Y
Hal Trosky-Y
Terry Turner-Y

Contributors
Herb Score-Y
Charles Somers-N

[dgarza]

Players
Roberto Alomar - Y
Sandy Alomar Jr. - Y
Carlos Baerga - Y
Bill Bradley - Y
Ray Chapman - Y
Wes Ferrell - Y
Mike Garcia - Y
Joe Gordon - Y
Jeff Heath -
Joe Jackson - Y
Charlie Jamieson - Y
Charles Nagy - Y
Andre Thornton - Y
Luis Tiant - Y
Hal Trosky - Y
Terry Turner - Y

Contributors
Herb Score - Y
Charles Somers - Y