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Thread: Kirk Nieuwenhuis

  1. #1
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    Kirk Nieuwenhuis

    Everyone here seems to be enamored with Nieuwenhuis, but we really need to temper expectations. Cap'N Kirk is running on a unsustainable BABIP and is striking out like Adam Dunn. His slash line at the moment is nice, but it's a small sample size regardless. A month from now, he'll probably fall back down to earth. There's still plenty of reason for optimism, though. He has decent potential and can probably maintain a solid role in the Majors once he fixes up his deficiencies.

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    Agreed. He has a long way to go to be mentioned in the same sentence with Lucas Duda.

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    If all we could talk about was proven commodities there'd be nothing to talk about with this team after Wright and Santana.

  4. #4
    Agreed. But let's enjoy it while we can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtipper View Post
    Agreed. But let's enjoy it while we can.
    Indeed. I say ride the wave while we can. All this "a month from now" talk is fine and dandy, but it's meaningless for the here and now.

    At least I know I'm not the only one who thinks moving Newie to left is a poor decision, for it was the first words out of Darling's mouth during last night's pre-game show. If Kirk is gonna be the centerfielder of the future -- which many insiders feel he is -- then leaving him in center is the most logical thing to do. Even Torres himself said he'll play anywhere. When he was with the Giants, he played all three outfield positions and is more than willing to do that with the Mets. Right now, I'd swap Newie back to center and put Torres in left (or right, if Duda's not feeling well).

    Put it in the books.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtipper View Post
    Agreed. But let's enjoy it while we can.
    Agreed enjoy while we can. But this leads me to another question:

    When will the Mets ever come up with a bonafide everyday player this is a superstar? I dont mean Wright or Reyes...neither of which were ever in that catergory and their performance if you look at the career at this point was so up/down and injured. I mean a real bonafide Superstar.

    When do we get a Matt Kemp - Ryan Braun - Cano -Pujols -Bonds? I mean a real player to hang your hat on......not these fly by night...had a good month in April once type of players. I mean a true Met HOF'er. I dont even put Piazza in that catergory, not by a long shot. His best years were with the Dodgers by far.

    When Strawberry was signed he was supposed to be that type of guy, but due to having very little between his ears he wasnt. Darryl was signed in June of 1980....... 1980. That was 32 years ago that we signed someone that was supposed to be an all time great Met.

    This team is 50 years old and their everyday player history is probably the poorest of all the active teams right now.

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    Not too off topic.
    Put it in the books.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milladrive View Post
    Not too off topic.
    When Kirk Nieuwenhuis gets a thread its an indicator ........isnt it?
    Last edited by Paulypal; 05-01-2012 at 08:35 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    Agreed enjoy while we can. But this leads me to another question:

    When will the Mets ever come up with a bonafide everyday player this is a superstar? I dont mean Wright or Reyes...neither of which were ever in that catergory and their performance if you look at the career at this point was so up/down and injured. I mean a real bonafide Superstar.

    When do we get a Matt Kemp - Ryan Braun - Cano -Pujols -Bonds? I mean a real player to hang your hat on......not these fly by night...had a good month in April once type of players. I mean a true Met HOF'er. I dont even put Piazza in that catergory, not by a long shot. His best years were with the Dodgers by far.

    When Strawberry was signed he was supposed to be that type of guy, but due to having very little between his ears he wasnt. Darryl was signed in June of 1980....... 1980. That was 32 years ago that we signed someone that was supposed to be an all time great Met.

    This team is 50 years old and their everyday player history is probably the poorest of all the active teams right now.
    It's been suggested that perhaps Ruben Tejada is that player....or Dan Murphy....or Lucas Duda!

    You're right about Piazza, he wasn't developed by the Mets - we lucked into him from a failing Florida franchise and basically re-signed him as a FA.

    Wright and Reyes? Not that very top echelon, though they're both in top 5 of all-time homegrown Met position players and the best at their respective positions - ever - in team history. Each has an outside shot at the Hall of Fame, discounting injuries, beanings, and mental weakness related to outfield walls.

    The only all-timer remains Tom Seaver.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    It's been suggested that perhaps Ruben Tejada is that player....or Dan Murphy....or Lucas Duda!

    You're right about Piazza, he wasn't developed by the Mets - we lucked into him from a failing Florida franchise and basically re-signed him as a FA.

    Wright and Reyes? Not that very top echelon, though they're both in top 5 of all-time homegrown Met position players and the best at their respective positions - ever - in team history. Each has an outside shot at the Hall of Fame, discounting injuries, beanings, and mental weakness related to outfield walls.

    The only all-timer remains Tom Seaver.
    I agree on Seaver, but I was directing my comments on everyday players. I just dont see Wright and Reyes as HOF'ers. They are both approaching 30 and dont have nearly credentials that players should have in the middle of their prime. They both need to have a huge upswing to have that happen, and that doesnt usually occur at their age.

    Oh and to keep current and right on track with the theme of the original post.......I dont see Kirk Nieuwenhuis as a HOF'er either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasilyFound View Post
    Agreed. He has a long way to go to be mentioned in the same sentence with Lucas Duda.
    If that was meant to be funny it was. It really was.

    If that was meant to be serious it was sad. It really was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milladrive View Post
    Indeed. I say ride the wave while we can. All this "a month from now" talk is fine and dandy, but it's meaningless for the here and now.

    At least I know I'm not the only one who thinks moving Newie to left is a poor decision, for it was the first words out of Darling's mouth during last night's pre-game show. If Kirk is gonna be the centerfielder of the future -- which many insiders feel he is -- then leaving him in center is the most logical thing to do. Even Torres himself said he'll play anywhere. When he was with the Giants, he played all three outfield positions and is more than willing to do that with the Mets. Right now, I'd swap Newie back to center and put Torres in left (or right, if Duda's not feeling well).

    It's more defensively sound playing Torres at CF and Nieuwenhuis at LF because of Kirk's lack of range and defensive ability (he's certainly no Lucas Duda, though). I'd hardly call him a future CF. More like a LF, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    If that was meant to be funny it was. It really was.

    If that was meant to be serious it was sad. It really was.
    OK. I laughed out loud at this post. I hope that give you a clue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasilyFound View Post
    OK. I laughed out loud at this post. I hope that give you a clue.
    Just so you know...I get your sarcasm.

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    I guess my sarcasm meter was off a bit.

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    Just for the record, before Monday's game, Nieuwenhuis had never played leftfield before. Not in his whole life. I see not how putting an aging gimpy Torres in center is better for the team than having the experienced Torres in left while leaving the hustling young scrapper Newie in the position he's most likely to play more of in the future. Makes zero sense to me.

    Now, go right ahead and disagree.
    Put it in the books.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by milladrive View Post
    Just for the record, before Monday's game, Nieuwenhuis had never played leftfield before. Not in his whole life. I see not how putting an aging gimpy Torres in center is better for the team than having the experienced Torres in left while leaving the hustling young scrapper Newie in the position he's most likely to play more of in the future. Makes zero sense to me.

    Now, go right ahead and disagree.
    Well it's typical protect-my-boss move - off-season acquisition etc over the somewhat surprising scrapper. Must make Alderson look smart.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milladrive View Post
    Just for the record, before Monday's game, Nieuwenhuis had never played leftfield before. Not in his whole life. I see not how putting an aging gimpy Torres in center is better for the team than having the experienced Torres in left while leaving the hustling young scrapper Newie in the position he's most likely to play more of in the future. Makes zero sense to me.

    Now, go right ahead and disagree.
    Torres is the better defender, Nieuwenhuis isn't. This is pretty clear cut -- Kirk is pretty average out there.
    Last edited by CokeMachineGlow; 05-02-2012 at 01:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Well it's typical protect-my-boss move - off-season acquisition etc over the somewhat surprising scrapper. Must make Alderson look smart.
    Are you still raging on about Alderson when this thread has nothing to do with him? Is there any reason why you need to bash and derail every thread with your ignorant rants?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow View Post
    Torres is the better defender, Nieuwenhuis isn't. This is pretty clear cut -- Kirk is pretty average out there.
    I'm not sure where you getting this conclusion. To me he passes the "eye test" and using UZR or UZR/150 from fangraphs (admittedly only one stat but noone asked for a thesis) out of 23 qualifiyng CF he is 6th and 5th respectively. as I tediously noted abbove by their calculation he made the play on 35/35 balls hit in his zone (whatever that may be). He has made 11 polays out of zone good for 16th which may be why he seems meh to you (the most is 20 and the least is 6). From what I see Austin Jackson comes out as the best CF by a lot. ln all honesty is seems like even the worst guy Granderson has made 39/39 with 13 out of zone in @ 40 more inning than Kirk so I can
    't say I hget it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    I'm not sure where you getting this conclusion. To me he passes the "eye test" and using UZR or UZR/150 from fangraphs (admittedly only one stat but noone asked for a thesis) out of 23 qualifiyng CF he is 6th and 5th respectively. as I tediously noted abbove by their calculation he made the play on 35/35 balls hit in his zone (whatever that may be). He has made 11 polays out of zone good for 16th which may be why he seems meh to you (the most is 20 and the least is 6). From what I see Austin Jackson comes out as the best CF by a lot. ln all honesty is seems like even the worst guy Granderson has made 39/39 with 13 out of zone in @ 40 more inning than Kirk so I can
    't say I hget it.
    UZR is flawed in small sample sizes (and, sometimes, in general). I've been impressed with Nieuwenhuis's play, but he hasn't really impressed me on the field. He's roughly average -- average range, arm...etc.

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    Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this. ...but I think he passes the "eye test" as well, and he has gads of time and space for improvement. He won't get that as quickly in a position he's never played before.
    Put it in the books.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow View Post
    Are you still raging on about Alderson when this thread has nothing to do with him? Is there any reason why you need to bash and derail every thread with your ignorant rants?
    That's a personal attack - "ignorant rants" - Mr. Lighted Vending Equipment.

    But I'll ignore it in light of your inexperience in such matters. And point out what every long-term baseball fan knows - protect-your-boss is pretty standard corporate behavior everywhere, but in MLB it's rampant where free agents and trade acquisitions are concerned. Has been for years. Most managers will go with the talent the GM acquired by FA or trade and termed "the starter" in the ensuing press conference. They'll always go with the guy who's paid more. Nothing particular to Collins and Alderson in this case, just the typical profile.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  24. #24
    Anyway.....to move away from the silliness of some and back to the topic....

    I'm a pretty big Kirk fan, however, he only makes sense in CF because he doesn't have the pop to play a corner OF spot. He's a better defender than most give him credit for and he seems to get good jumps on the ball. He's a keeper but its all a matter of who else is on the team. For instance, the way the team is constructed now they are in DESPERATE need of another RH power hitter. Preferably to play RF and slide Duda into LF. If Bay could only regain his form, we'd have a damn good lineup imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow View Post
    UZR is flawed in small sample sizes (and, sometimes, in general). I've been impressed with Nieuwenhuis's play, but he hasn't really impressed me on the field. He's roughly average -- average range, arm...etc.
    Fair enough.

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