Sore Arms

[real green]

We have had so many arm issues in our Little League this year. It just has to make you wonder.

1. Are we over sensitive to the issue?
2. Do we really need to run to the ortho as soon as someone complains?
3. Will the ortho ever say, "Your arm is fine go out and play?"
4. For the most part these are the athletic kids that play year around multiple sports - not video game addicts
5. I wonder how much we really no about the growth plate and arm issues for youth?

[Roothog66]

We have had so many arm issues in our Little League this year. It just has to make you wonder.

1. Are we over sensitive to the issue?
2. Do we really need to run to the ortho as soon as someone complains?
3. Will the ortho ever say, "Your arm is fine go out and play?"
4. For the most part these are the athletic kids that play year around multiple sports - not video game addicts
5. I wonder how much we really no about the growth plate and arm issues for youth?

Your asking some dangerous questions, RG. Get ready to roll.

[dominik]

Is this another "today's kids are soft and spoiled" thread?

I know you old guys were much tougher throwing around with primed grenades instead of baseballs all day long.

[real green]

Right now we have 6 kids I know of out for 3-6wks with growth plate issues. That's 5% of our Major's players. Half of our teams have a kid in a sling and one team has two. That sure seems out of wack.

[real green]

Is this another "today's kids are soft and spoiled" thread?

I know you old guys were much tougher throwing around with primed grenades instead of baseballs all day long.

I don't know what it means.

[dominik]

I don't know what it means.

Sorry then I didn't understand your post. I thought this was going to be one of those "pitch counts are for whimps suck it up and pitch" kind of thread. But I'm no native english speaker so you need to help me out a little on this one.

[Jake Patterson]

Here are some thoughts....

We have had so many arm issues in our Little League this year. It just has to make you wonder.

1. Are we over sensitive to the issue?

No...

2. Do we really need to run to the ortho as soon as someone complains?

No

3. Will the ortho ever say, "Your arm is fine go out and play?"

No

4. For the most part these are the athletic kids that play year around multiple sports - not video game addicts

Then you have a real big issue... A coach knowing how to teach throwing should not have problems.

5. I wonder how much we really no about the growth plate and arm issues for youth?

We know a greatd deal. If you ever have the opportunity to go to a presentation featuring a youth orthopedic specialist then I would HIGHLY recommend it... One of the last ones I attended, given by Dr. Michael Joyce, had arthoscopic clips of damaged young arms. He knew exactly what was wrong and what stress caused it.

[songtitle]

He knew exactly what was wrong and what stress caused it.

What stress caused it?

[skipper5]

Right now we have 6 kids I know of out for 3-6wks with growth plate issues. ... Half of our teams have a kid in a sling

I'm surprised that it only takes 3-6 weeks to recover from arm injuries severe enough to require a sling.

Possibly the slings are over-doing it?

[AdamInNY]

All different coaches? All same injury? All going to the same doctor?

This year has been a disaster for my minors team. I have 2 players in slings, but one broke his arm in school. And the other had a cyst in his shoulder. Worst thing I've ever seen. We were doing our warm ups. Cement throws from 10' apart and this kid dropped to the ground like a sniper took him out. Kid next to him from several feet away said he heard a pop/snap.

[Bulldog19]

I'm surprised that it only takes 3-6 weeks to recover from arm injuries severe enough to require a sling.

Possibly the slings are over-doing it?

Not necessarily. Sometimes we'll utilize a sling or crutches, etc not because of the severity of the injury but to reinforce using the time to REST properly.

[PhilliesPhan22]

Maybe they aren't getting proper instruction.

[Jake Patterson]

What stress caused it?

I am uncertain what your question is... He had several arthoscopic clips, he reviewed the damaged and described the stress that caused the damage.

[tg643]

We have had so many arm issues in our Little League this year. It just has to make you wonder.

1. Are we over sensitive to the issue?
2. Do we really need to run to the ortho as soon as someone complains?
3. Will the ortho ever say, "Your arm is fine go out and play?"
4. For the most part these are the athletic kids that play year around multiple sports - not video game addicts
5. I wonder how much we really no about the growth plate and arm issues for youth?

1) Knowledgeable is preferable
2) As soon as the pain doesn't go away with rest
3) Ortho will tell kiddie ballers to take Tylenol and rest arm for a couple of weeks.
4) They probably still throw too little and pitch too much
5) I'll leave this to the specialists. I have seen kiddie ballers pitch too much and sit out seasons by age twelve.

Because my son played about 120 preteen organized games per year between baseball, basketball, football and soccer he had physicals with an ortho specialist twice a year. The specialist said he's ok due to spreading out exercise among several sports. When he had separation shoulder surgery at seventeen the specialist said while the injury was the result of a fall and contact there was a lot of wear and tear in the shoulder. My son has always been a very physical athlete. When my son was preteen the doctor probably didn't figure how physical he would be.

[tradosaurus]

We have had so many arm issues in our Little League this year. It just has to make you wonder.

1. Are we over sensitive to the issue?
2. Do we really need to run to the ortho as soon as someone complains?
3. Will the ortho ever say, "Your arm is fine go out and play?"
4. For the most part these are the athletic kids that play year around multiple sports - not video game addicts
5. I wonder how much we really no about the growth plate and arm issues for youth?

This is my thoughts on the issue.

I believe the foods we eat can help repair damage that occurs when pitching or hinder the repair process.

I grew up in the 70's as a kid and I don't recall any kid that had to drop out of baseball because of growth plate issues or sore arms.

Of course going out to eat was a rarity and mom stayed home and cooked food with minimal preservaties during those days.

Seeing an overweight kid much less an obese kid was such a rarity.

That and video games was something you had to go to the bowling alley and play standing up.

Quite a few kids I'm seeing in these video's are overweight.

[Chris O'Leary]

Right now we have 6 kids I know of out for 3-6wks with growth plate issues. That's 5% of our Major's players. Half of our teams have a kid in a sling and one team has two. That sure seems out of wack.

Growth plate issues are real, serious problems.

Perhaps the issue is your attitude and the questions you asked.

[Chris O'Leary]

I don't know what it means.

Growth plate injuries are generally due to overuse or overloading (e.g. low arm slots).

[real green]

Chris,
I am not sure about the attitude. It's just an observation. I don't know what is right or wrong. I do know right now we have 5% of our LL major players from different teams and coaches in slings. Something is out of wack. I have never seen this many arm issues in 30yrs of being around baseball.

Trad,
While I agree a lot of kids are over weight, most of these kids are not. Diet might be an issue and worth consideration.

TG,
Knowledge is good.

Phillies Phan,
Kids came from different coaches. When I was a kid, the coaches were horrible compared to today and the number of arm injuries "reported" was much much less.

Adam,
They all seem to be growth plate issues in the shoulder or elbow. Different teams different coaches, don't know about the doctors.

Jake,
Sensitive - I am so freaked out about my sons arm everytime he makes a full effort throw from outfield I crinch a bit.
Visit the Dr. - When do you go to the doc? Be speific please - not the general response - If he's sore after rest. Define sore, location, how much rest, etc....
Doc prescribes rest everytime I know a kid went to the ortho.

Again athletic kids with different coaches from different teams.

I would love to hear a presentation. I find it very interesting.

[Chris O'Leary]

Chris,
I am not sure about the attitude. It's just an observation. I don't know what is right or wrong. I do know right now we have 5% of our LL major players from different teams and coaches in slings. Something is out of wack. I have never seen this many arm issues in 30yrs of being around baseball.

If kids are having growth plate problems, then you're not be over-sensitive to the issue, you're being under-sensitive to the issue.

Those kids should have been shut down, or the problems addressed, before it got to that point.

The root cause is probably due to overuse, but there are probably some mechanical issues involved.

[tradosaurus]

Growth plate injuries are generally due to overuse or overloading (e.g. low arm slots).

I also don't remember a coach keeping pitch count when I pitched from age 7 thru age 16 and I never had a problem that I can remember.

I'm not advocating not having a pitch count but I do remember playing sandlot ball on occasion growing up as well as riding a bike, walking, keeping busy outside since with 3 channels on the T.V. and no interest in reading it got boring real quick.

My son's 13U tournament team was suppose to practice today but it was called off because there were a few kids that, according to the coach, needed to rest up because of injuries before our tournament this weekend. We had a 4 hr practice Sunday afternoon, my son had a league game on Monday, and a league practice Tuesday. He could have practiced today if needed and I might do long toss with him anyway.

I really believe my son's advantage is eating proper foods (ie. not eating out), no soft drinks, rarely eating between meals, no candy bars, but homemade desserts on occasions. Also getting at least 9 hrs sleep every day. I think his body heals itself because he is generally in better health than most kids.

[Chris O'Leary]

I also don't remember a coach keeping pitch count when I pitched from age 7 thru age 16 and I never had a problem that I can remember.

Was there travel ball? Were there as many tournaments? Did kids play on multiple teams? Was there as much pressure to perform as there is now?

The answer for me to all of those (late 70s to early 80s) is "no," and I still managed to screw up my labrum.

Times have changed.

[scorekeeper]

Was there travel ball? Were there as many tournaments? Did kids play on multiple teams? Was there as much pressure to perform as there is now?

The answer for me to all of those (late 70s to early 80s) is "no," and I still managed to screw up my labrum.

Times have changed.

Not only those things, but then there’s that thing no one can really define. How much of what is being remembered from 20 years ago is fact, and how much is it seeing the past through rose colored glasses?

[Chris O'Leary]

Not only those things, but then there’s that thing no one can really define. How much of what is being remembered from 20 years ago is fact, and how much is it seeing the past through rose colored glasses?

What are you saying?

My childhood was idyllic.

Lollipops and swimming pools every day.

But those winters were a bear.

[Jake Patterson]

Real,
Something sounds way out of whack...
Several thoughts... I would like to know if the league had anyone come in to teach throwing... 5% in slings seems like a great deal (200 players = 10). I coached school ball for a decade and never had a player in a sling, to include my son, a small pitcher, who I worked with since he was 5 or 6 and pitched until adulthood.

Jake, Sensitive - I am so freaked out about my sons arm everytime he makes a full effort throw from outfield I crinch a bit.

Based on what you are telling us I can see why...

Visit the Dr. - When do you go to the doc? Be speific please - not the general response - If he's sore after rest. Define sore, location, how much rest, etc.... Doc prescribes rest everytime I know a kid went to the ortho.

I am not a doctor, but the rule of thumb I used was... Any mild muscular soreness I did not worry about to much unless it got worse... Anything inside the shoulder or elbow joint I did and shut them down... But again I did not have that many issues.

I would love to hear a presentation. I find it very interesting.

Here's a clip for a labral tear (Warning: Not for everyone) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnBaw65aHl0

I've seen numerous presentations... The best was Dr. Michael Joyce at the World Baseball Convention. I looked to see if there was anything on Youtube but could not find anything.

[CircleChange11]

Not only those things, but then there’s that thing no one can really define. How much of what is being remembered from 20 years ago is fact, and how much is it seeing the past through rose colored glasses?

BOOM!

This is why I volunteered to compile last year's rec league and travel teams scorebooks in regards to pitcher usage frequency, volume, and duration. The LAST thing I want to invest time is in people's memories. The human memory has been shown to be unreliable at times. I don't want to base kids' safety on adult memories. It's amazing that so many are willing to disagree with the doctors that perform the surgeries because the pitch counts don't "seem right" to them, as if one's gut feeling is on par with the doctor at the top of his professional field.

Here's what I remember from my childhood, basically everyone that was not me, was a sissy and not very cool. *grin* ... and there were a lot of girls that missed out on "all this" by not recognizing my brilliance at the time. Heh heh.

Basically, if I ask my dad about his experience as a kid I get a bunch of bravado and embellishment. When I go ask my grandfather about my dad as a kid, I get a much different perspective.