A Question For White Sox Fans

[KurtDman24]

Greetings White Sox fans--I have a question that I'd like your opinion on.

The White Sox, Red Sox and Cubs all went through prolonged championship droughts--86 years for the Red Sox, 88 years for the White Sox, and 103 and counting for the Cubs. But it has always seemed to me that baseball fans have always been more sympathetic to the Red Sox and Cubs than they ever were to the White Sox through that time. It was earthshaking when the Red Sox broke their curse; a year later the White Sox broke a longer one and hardly anyone seemed to care (where I'm from anyway).

Is that my imagination, or do you agree? And if so, any idea why that is? Why is the Curse of the Bambino or the Curse of the Billy Goat more romantic than the Curse of the Black Sox?

Would love to hear from White Sox fans on this.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

I always wondered the same thing. The Cubs and Redsox have larger fanbases so thats probaly a big reason. Plus the Whitesox have never had the history with losing dramatic games or losing out on pennants. They had a few but nobody really remembers those seasons unless your a Sox fan. I never saw anyone really cry or complain about the 1967, 1977 or the 1983 seasons. The Cubs lost out in 69 and Cub fans really made a big deal about that and I suppose it's because they had bigger names like Banks, Santo, Jenkins and Billy Williams and the 84 Cubs had that 2-0 lead and blew it while the Whitesox just didnt have the better teams.

1967 Redsox I would say were better
1977 Royals again better
1983 Orioles were probaly even with the Whitesox but it wasnt a dramatic series.

Most fans probaly didnt even know the Whitesox went so long without winning a WS.

I never see Whitesox fans cry in thier beers either most Whitesox fans are blue coller and go to work kinda guys where maybe Cub fans are a bunch of "the world is gonna end if I dont get these new golfclubs kinda guys".

[chicagowhitesox1173]

Double post

[KurtDman24]

I always wondered the same thing. The Cubs and Redsox have larger fanbases so thats probaly a big reason. Plus the Whitesox have never had the history with losing dramatic games or losing out on pennants. They had a few but nobody really remembers those seasons unless your a Sox fan. I never saw anyone really cry or complain about the 1967, 1977 or the 1983 seasons. The Cubs lost out in 69 and Cub fans really made a big deal about that and I suppose it's because they had bigger names like Banks, Santo, Jenkins and Billy Williams and the 84 Cubs had that 2-0 lead and blew it while the Whitesox just didnt have the better teams.

1967 Redsox I would say were better
1977 Royals again better
1983 Orioles were probaly even with the Whitesox but it wasnt a dramatic series.

Most fans probaly didnt even know the Whitesox went so long without winning a WS.

I never see Whitesox fans cry in thier beers either most Whitesox fans are blue coller and go to work kinda guys where maybe Cub fans are a bunch of "the world is gonna end if I dont get these new golfclubs kinda guys".

That is a great line...

I think that people didn't start talking about a curse on the Red Sox until 1986, when they came within a strike of winning the Series and then blew it. Dan Shaughnessy's book "The Curse of The Bambino" came out a few years later and amplified that. Then we started hearing about the Curse of the Billy Goat, etc. And indeed the Cubs were in playoff series that they possibly should have won, while as you say the White Sox were often overmatched, 1983 being an exception.

You make a good point about the different mindset of White Sox fans too; Jim Caple's quote is great. The two ballparks in Chicago are just a train ride apart, but they might as well be in different countries. And Red Sox fans are probably similar to Cubs fans in that regard.

Could the Black Sox be a factor? That was and still is seen as an ugly chapter in baseball history, perhaps that may have influenced the general opinion of fans outside of Chicago and made them less sympathetic. Just a thought. Fans seem to feel worse for guys like Ted Williams or Ernie Banks than they did for Luke Appling.

[KCGHOST]

The Chicago media loves the Cubs so they get all the ink and their failure steak is over a century now. When the White Sox won they sort of came out of nowhere and did it without a lot of charisma, other than Ozzie.

[BaronSamedi]

Despite all my reading, I can't give a very good answer because I adopted the White Sox pretty late in my life. But the White Sox haven't had the kind of spectacular dramas the Red Sox had, or the ridiculous failures of the Cubs. They've often fielded good teams which were never quite good enough, and so they've done well but have very little to show for it - the 1959 Pennant, the 1983 division title, the best record in the AL during 1994, and that's pretty much it. The Cubs and Red Sox won several Pennants and were big players in tight races. The Cubs and Red Sox also have more successful big name antagonists in the Cardinals and Yankees, while the White Sox rivalries - which are just as good - are just more small time teams, mostly the Indians and Twins. Bill Veeck's promotions probably distracted the media from their records or performances.

[KurtDman24]

Despite all my reading, I can't give a very good answer because I adopted the White Sox pretty late in my life. But the White Sox haven't had the kind of spectacular dramas the Red Sox had, or the ridiculous failures of the Cubs. They've often fielded good teams which were never quite good enough, and so they've done well but have very little to show for it - the 1959 Pennant, the 1983 division title, the best record in the AL during 1994, and that's pretty much it. The Cubs and Red Sox won several Pennants and were big players in tight races. The Cubs and Red Sox also have more successful big name antagonists in the Cardinals and Yankees, while the White Sox rivalries - which are just as good - are just more small time teams, mostly the Indians and Twins. Bill Veeck's promotions probably distracted the media from their records or performances.

I hadn't considered the rivalries angle, I think you may be onto something there. The Yankees have 27 World Series wins and the Cardinals have 11, so having either of them as your divisional rival for all those years probably inspires a lot more emotion in fans. The White Sox were in the AL West all of those years, and no one really had a stronghold on that division in my young life--as I remember it many times a team could win it just being a .500 team, because the East was so good with Yankees, Red Sox, Orioles and Tigers (and often the Brewers). The Indians--another team in a long drought, for that matter--don't have anything much to brag about to Sox fans. Interesting take.

[1983whitesox]

Another twist would be the 9 times the Cubs did make it to the World Series. And lost all but two.


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[KurtDman24]

[QUOTE=1983whitesox;2024883]Another twist would be the 9 times the Cubs did make it to the World Series. And lost all but two.


True that...so there have been more near misses in Wrigleyville too. The White Sox may not have made it there as many times, but they've finished the job more often.

[mandrake]

[QUOTE=KurtDman24;2024939]

Another twist would be the 9 times the Cubs did make it to the World Series. And lost all but two.


True that...so there have been more near misses in Wrigleyville too. The White Sox may not have made it there as many times, but they've finished the job more often.

Well, looking back at the period 1951-1967, I think the Sox out drew the cubs and they had some very good seasons. As for winning on the field, 1955 91-63 (3rd); 1957 90-64 (2nd); 1958 (2nd); 1959 pennant; 1963 94-68 (2nd); 1964 98-64 (2nd, one game out); 1965 95-67 (2nd); 1967 ; 1972, 1977, 1983,1990, 1993.........

[chicagowhitesox1173]

[QUOTE=mandrake;2028408]

Well, looking back at the period 1951-1967, I think the Sox out drew the cubs and they had some very good seasons. As for winning on the field, 1955 91-63 (3rd); 1957 90-64 (2nd); 1958 (2nd); 1959 pennant; 1963 94-68 (2nd); 1964 98-64 (2nd, one game out); 1965 95-67 (2nd); 1967 ; 1972, 1977, 1983,1990, 1993.........

Damn Yankees. kidding yeah I did look it up and the Sox did outdraw the Cubs all those years. I know the Cubs got bigger because of WGN but I have to wonder if when the Chicago Stockyards closed down if that may have hurt attendance too. They closed the Stockyards in 1971 but i'm sure it was being downsized for years before that.

These are the attendance figures (avg attendance)
1951 Whitesox 17,029 Cubs 11,616
1952 Whitesox 15,591 Cubs 13,309
1953 Whitesox 15,274 Cubs 9,918
1954 Whitesox 15,790 Cubs 9,717
1955 Whitesox 15,269 Cubs 11,374
1956 Whitesox 12,988 Cubs 9,001
1957 Whitesox 14,749 Cubs 8,598
1958 Cubs 12,726 Whitesox 10,357...I guess Ernie Banks MVP year helped this year.
1959 Whitesox 18,245 Cubs 11,146
1960 Whitesox 21,357 Cubs 10,250
1961 Whitesox 14,148 Cubs 8,629
1962 Whitesox 13,970 Cubs 7,528
1963 Whitesox 14,132 Cubs 12,093
1964 Whitesox 15,433 Cubs 9,280
1965 Whitesox 13,957 Cubs 7,727
1966 Whitesox 12,222 Cubs 7,851
1967 Whitesox 12,020 Cubs 11,634

After 1967 the Whitesox outdrew the Cubs in these years:
1974
1977
1978
1981
1982
1983
1984.....This year was kinda surprising to win but the sox won 26,383 to 26,346
1985
1991
1992
1994...That strike really lost alot of Sox fans this was the last year the Sox beat em in attendance,