Defending Aggressive Base Running

[The Flush]

The team we faced yesterday in our 10U rec league was very aggressive on the base paths. Every time the ball is in play their runners are instructed to try run halfway to the next base to get in a pickle in order to advance the lead runner. This happened even with the pitcher with the ball on the rubber at least once. I know the only way to stop this tactic is to actually throw them out a few times, which we did twice, but I think it was because they got careless more than anything. We fell for it at least once as well and gave up a run. What is the best way to defend this without letting the trailing runner advance? All of the infielders are usually reliable, but we hate to risk throwing the ball around.

[real green]

No one else on base, if pitcher has ball flat out sprint at runner cheating a little towards lead base. Always amazed how many runners freeze for simple tag in this scenario.

Runner on third depends on game situation. Depending on the score, you have three options.

1. Concede second base
2. Fake for the out at second and catch the guy at third being to aggressive
3. Concede the run and get the out

[The Flush]

I am trying to come up with ways to not concede either base. I want both runners to retreat to their base for at least the next pitch. I guess we just have to have the arm strength and accuracy and good gloves to be able throw runners out from anywhere in the infield.

The team we played Saturday got us once when they kept the runners off the bases a little even as the pitcher took the ball to and stood on the rubber. They then sent the runner from first, which spooked our pitcher, who threw to second, where we would have had the runner out easily, but the runner from 3rd went home so the 2B threw home, made a bad throw, the runner scored and the other runner moved to 3rd. It worked perfectly for them. We only fell for this once, but it was very frustrating when it happened. If we had the pitcher walk a runner back to the base, the other one would get a large lead off base. As the pitcher moved back to the rubber, both runners would move off the base. I just want a way to force both runners back. We were able to get a runner once because our pitcher (the one from my Help our Pitcher thread) is very ballsy and made a great, quick, illadvised throw to 1st after checking the runner back to 3rd and the 1B made a good play to tag out the runner. Frequently those sudden, hard throws spook the fielder enough to make them drop the ball.

[scorekeeper]

The team we faced yesterday in our 10U rec league was very aggressive on the base paths. Every time the ball is in play their runners are instructed to try run halfway to the next base to get in a pickle in order to advance the lead runner. This happened even with the pitcher with the ball on the rubber at least once. I know the only way to stop this tactic is to actually throw them out a few times, which we did twice, but I think it was because they got careless more than anything. We fell for it at least once as well and gave up a run. What is the best way to defend this without letting the trailing runner advance? All of the infielders are usually reliable, but we hate to risk throwing the ball around.

I don’t mean to make light of you question which is a good one, but the easiest way to defend against aggressive base running, is to cut down on the runners reaching base. There’s absolutely nothing you can do about hits because they’re gonna happen no matter what ya do. But, you can do something about runners who ROE or reach on walks or get HBP. If you cut down on just 1 walk or HBP and 1 ROE per game, that’s 2 runners who never get the chance to advance.

As for how kids that age in a rec league would defend against aggressive base running, they really can’t. Its because it’s a lot easier for one kid to run 60’ in a straight line, than it is for a pitcher to make a good pitch the catcher can handle easily, the catcher to catch the ball then execute all the muscle movements correctly to transfer the ball and make a good throw to a base, then have the fielder receiving the throw get into proper position to catch it, catch it, then apply a tag without losing control of the ball.

Until the distance between bases get longer and the players get more skilled, you can only keep trying to teach the fielders the skills they need to execute correctly in order to catch runners.

[The Flush]

I don't mind steals (our league requires the ball the reach the plate before running). It's the stuff that happens as the play is ALMOST over.

[TexAg]

our 9/10u rec league has the pitching mound as "home base." basically, once the pitcher is on the mound with the ball, the baserunners can no longer advance.

[CircleChange11]

You could always have the 1B trail the runner. If the throw goes to 1B then they can apply a quick tag or at least have a very short distance rundown.

You could also have the RF sprint in and shadow the runner. I like this one because the RF is moving "toward the plate" so if the jagbag runner takes off for home, the RF's momentum is heading toward home.

A combination of the two involving a "fake overthrow to 1B" or a literal overthrow of the 1B but directly to the RF could be interesting ... but even then on 60-foot bases it requires too much given the average player's defensive prowess.

It's just stupid, because now you have to plan and prepare for something you'll never see at higher levels, and the other team excels at something that will not transfer.

The bothersome aspect to me is that is not really a skill that other players don;t have, but a style that many coaches are not willing to utilize because of its exploitative nature. But some coaches cave in so they can "fight fire with fire."

I really don't get it. It's simply an exploit of the basepath distances and size of the kids. People certainly do talk up the quality of travel baseball but when we play in no leadoff games, it's amazing how low the scores are. It's almost as if kids rely on passed balls for runs instead of learning how to hit line drive and balls out of the infield. Hmm, yes very interesting. Maybe it's easier to teach baserunning exploits than great hitting mechanics. Yes, maybe. Oh, CircleChange11, shut up. Just be sure to label your kid "elite" or "select" and get with the program.

The defenses have been very good, I will say. That's refreshing.

I don’t mean to make light of you question which is a good one, but the easiest way to defend against aggressive base running, is to cut down on the runners reaching base.

Yeah,like the dad in crowd yells "Throw strikes". Who knew?

[The Flush]

From what I have heard, our league "all-star" team faced a lot of this type of base running in tournaments last year, so now some of the coaches whose kids were on that team are using the technique to win in rec league as well as being prepared to "fight fire with fire" once the all-star season rolls around.

I was thinking of having the SS cover 3B and have the 3B go half way between 3rd and home (or trail the runner), fake the throw to 2nd or 1st to freeze that runner and then throw to the 3B halfway home for a tag.

I thought of having the outfielders cover bases, but at that point, we might as well concede 2nd.

[Roothog66]

Basically, you have the middle infielder take the throw not in a situation for a rundown, but have him run right to R1. He can then take the throw in a position that allows for both a tag and a chance at the lead runner. Outfielders covering shouldn't be an option at 10u. They should be fairly deep. I understand this is rec and you might not have the talent to properly cover it, at which point you might simply concede the trailing runner, hold the lead runner, and chalk it up to a simple stolen base which was probably coming next anyway at 10u rec.

[CircleChange11]

From what I have heard, our league "all-star" team faced a lot of this type of base running in tournaments last year, so now some of the coaches whose kids were on that team are using the technique to win in rec league as well as being prepared to "fight fire with fire" once the all-star season rolls around.

I was thinking of having the SS cover 3B and have the 3B go half way between 3rd and home (or trail the runner), fake the throw to 2nd or 1st to freeze that runner and then throw to the 3B halfway home for a tag.

I thought of having the outfielders cover bases, but at that point, we might as well concede 2nd.

Real baseball.

What you describe is accurate. One team does it and everyone pretty much has to do the same exploit in order to compete. The other option is to be multiple-times more talented than the opposition, but that's not likely.

Some of the guys have figured out in rec league you can just run without stopping. If the throw gets to the bag ahead of you just stop and retreat because it's easier to get out of the pickle than to get someone out.

I can see where coaches think this makes them look very smart, because it does make the opposition look stupid. But it's also complete jagoff baseball.

I'm not seeing much player development going on. I'm seeing very few kids that can hit well, but a lot of kids that can run the bases like idiots.

[soceric]

The team we faced yesterday in our 10U rec league was very aggressive on the base paths. Every time the ball is in play their runners are instructed to try run halfway to the next base to get in a pickle in order to advance the lead runner. This happened even with the pitcher with the ball on the rubber at least once. I know the only way to stop this tactic is to actually throw them out a few times, which we did twice, but I think it was because they got careless more than anything. We fell for it at least once as well and gave up a run. What is the best way to defend this without letting the trailing runner advance? All of the infielders are usually reliable, but we hate to risk throwing the ball around.

Get the ball to your short stop. he walks the runner back to first and checks the runner at 3rd. You play for the out of the lead runner if he goes or gets hung up. This scenario transfers as they get older.

The game is about making plays. You've got to throw and catch the ball.

[The Flush]

It felt really good last night when faced with runners on 1st and 3rd we threw them out at both 2nd and home. It's something we could probably only do 5% of the time and took the combination of slow runners and perfect throws and catches. It made our boys feel good about themselves and probably reduced the other team's agressiveness for the rest of the game. I still cringed when the catcher jumped up to make the throw to 2nd though. It's fun to watch 8-10 year olds make good baseball plays.

[trademark]

The best way to stop agressive baserunning is to have a good catcher. Simple as that...

I usually fight bush league ball with bush league ball. After that, the other team generally gets the message.

We successfully used a ‘sort of’ trick play in the tournaments a few years ago by faking a passed ball.
My son is the catcher for his U14 baseball team.
I’ve told him in the past that if there is an AGGRESIVE runner on third he should try suckering the runner to commit to advancing home on a perceived wild pitch.
For it to work, there are some things that have to go your way.
You need a right handed hitter at the plate.
You need a pitch that is down and away that your catcher has to backhand. We never told our pitchers to try pitching low and away. In fact, the kid pitching didn’t know what was going on when my son faked the passed ball.
And most importantly you need an AGGRESSIVE runner at third.

What has to happen is, on a throw down and away, the catcher backhands the ball.
With ball actually in the catcher’s mitt, the catcher runs directly away from the 3rd base line towards the backstop, (about four steps) as if he is chasing a ball that got away. If the runner is aggressive, as is usually the case, he’s hung out to dry once he realizes what has happened and tries to retreat back to third base. In this scenario, the kid was about half way down the line.

After this happened, they never stole another base. Never even tried.

[tg643]

The best way to stop agressive baserunning is to have a good catcher. Simple as that...

I usually fight bush league ball with bush league ball. After that, the other team generally gets the message.

We successfully used a ‘sort of’ trick play in the tournaments a few years ago by faking a passed ball.
My son is the catcher for his U14 baseball team.
I’ve told him in the past that if there is an AGGRESIVE runner on third he should try suckering the runner to commit to advancing home on a perceived wild pitch.
For it to work, there are some things that have to go your way.
You need a right handed hitter at the plate.
You need a pitch that is down and away that your catcher has to backhand. We never told our pitchers to try pitching low and away. In fact, the kid pitching didn’t know what was going on when my son faked the passed ball.
And most importantly you need an AGGRESSIVE runner at third.

What has to happen is, on a throw down and away, the catcher backhands the ball.
With ball actually in the catcher’s mitt, the catcher runs directly away from the 3rd base line towards the backstop, (about four steps) as if he is chasing a ball that got away. If the runner is aggressive, as is usually the case, he’s hung out to dry once he realizes what has happened and tries to retreat back to third base. In this scenario, the kid was about half way down the line.

After this happened, they never stole another base. Never even tried.

The options at 14U are a lot different the the original poster's options at 10U. The skill set is significantly different. Excessive base running at 14U will only generate outs.

[trademark]

Good point tg643...! I admit I over-looked that. At U10, you're not going to pull that kind of trick play.
However, I'd still point out that the best defence against this kind of behavior is a GOOD catcher. Agressive baserunning slows to a trickle with a nice throw to second from your catcher. In the years that I've coached U10 thru now U14, having a good catcher is more importaint than havng good pitching becasue other teams aren't as likely to 'steal' runs. Work with your catcher(s). Get them better at blocking some of the wild pitches. Begin teaching them the proper technique/footwork of throwing down to 2nd. If you've got a catcher that handles his/her self well for their age and plays solid behind the plate, the daddy base coaches aren't going to give the steal sign so often.

[Rajun Cajun]

The team we faced yesterday in our 10U rec league was very aggressive on the base paths. Every time the ball is in play their runners are instructed to try run halfway to the next base to get in a pickle in order to advance the lead runner. This happened even with the pitcher with the ball on the rubber at least once. I know the only way to stop this tactic is to actually throw them out a few times, which we did twice, but I think it was because they got careless more than anything. We fell for it at least once as well and gave up a run. What is the best way to defend this without letting the trailing runner advance? All of the infielders are usually reliable, but we hate to risk throwing the ball around.

This is very bush league. I've seen it allot at lower ages. Typically 9 and 10 U. Some people will do anything to win.


You have more options.....

1. Back door pick at first base with runners at first and third
2. 3-1 pick move, with fake pick moves

Score dependent................... trade an out for a run and execute a pickle between 1 and 2

OR, my favorite is to have the catcher throw to the second baseman who is cheating way in at double play depth while simultaneously having pitcher without the ball charging to runner at third base. pitcher is now in position to back up a pickle at home.

Second baseman decides based on base-runner position who to get out. The runner advancing to home, or the runner who is typically caught in no-mans land between first and second.

Ideally. here is the play.


Runners at first and third with two outs

1. Pitcher delivers a fast ball for a ball outside
2 Base runner at first gets a late jump because you threw over to first to keep him honest (at least once)
3. Catcher thorws to the second baseman
4. Second baseman receives the ball on the edge of the dirt, pump fakes the runner stealing and sends him back
5. Nails the guy out at home plate without the need for a pickle

Plan B. Execute the pickle and record an out somewhere

Option: Code words, colors, or numbers to call the hot play
Option B: one word for SS and one word for 2B to receive the throw.

I typically use a number sequence to call the play 3-2-1 Use a hot word to take away the second baseman off the play and insert the SS. For example 3-3-4 Tiger. MIght mean thrid inning, bogus number, runner going home, Tiger-Tiger (for the SS to receive)

First number: inning
Second number: player being thrown to or base runner at
Third number: where I want the out

[Rajun Cajun]

We played a team that did this sort of thing. These guys ran over everyone because they could "run the bases aggressively." They didn't run them smartly, they just pressured the defense into throwing the ball around.

It stops when you embarass them

Once you demonstrate that you can get outs by either trading runs for outs, or shutting down the runner going from third to home it spooks them.

You MUST stop the lead runner.

Even if you give up that base at second with a runner going from first to second, you must slow the game down for it slows the offense down.

Here is what I did. Also see above post. Works great in 12U ball

For 9 -11U ball concede the base at second (for now)

Execute soft pick moves to third, not really trying to pick the runner, or over throw third!!! Keep the bum very honest. Do it 5 to 8 times.

then, have second baseman sneak over, who was playing way off, and execute an inside pick move to second base and record the out. second baseman must be quick in applying the tag and popping up with the ball. Good chance at a double play here if runner goes home. He will be initially frozen.

No rule on when you have to throw home to the batter. put the bum to sleep by messing with the lead runner.

Let the other team know, that if they want to go "sherman" on the bases you will go all head slow, like you are navigating an ice field in a canoe. They can't score runs when you aren't helping them play their game their way.

play the game your way, and don't let these guys run all over your kids.

Make them respect the game.

Be prepared to lose a few games while learning this stuff, especially pickle plays. Establish inside dominance on the base paths and force their runners outside for clear throwing lanes.

[Rajun Cajun]

My all time-favorite at shutting down the bush leage bums as I call them.

This kills the opposing coach and he gets really mad.

Each time the pitcher throws home to the catcher, the catcher shall ask for time and ask for a new ball on every pitch. The game is not re-started until the home plate umpire signals "play." When he does this, the runner at third is sitting on third base licking an ice cream cone because you have just frozen their stealing home game.

I love-love-love this. Makes coach grumpey very un happy.

[johnlanza]

Runners on second and third. Runner on second takes lead about halfway to third. (I'm thinking that the coach teaches this in order to try to draw a throw or at least distract the pitcher in hopes of scoring the runner from third). Pitcher comes set. If he steps off the rubber, can he throw directly to the SS (and not to the base)? I'm assuming that it would be a balk if the pitcher just does it as a pickoff attempt. So that is why he would need to step off, right?

Depending on game situation, I think I would be willing to give up the run and throw out the runner with the huge lead.

[The Flush]

My son made the all-star team and one of the coaches of the aggressive running team is the 3rd base coach for the all-star team. So he is teaching the all-star team these aggressive (bush league IMHO) tactics. We played a scrimmage game today against a very over matched team and used these tactics to score almost at will. It was embarrassing to me. I doubt I will say anything about it, but I will teach my son that it is not useful tactic beyond the league he is on now.

[tg643]

My son made the all-star team and one of the coaches of the aggressive running team is the 3rd base coach for the all-star team. So he is teaching the all-star team these aggressive (bush league IMHO) tactics. We played a scrimmage game today against a very over matched team and used these tactics to score almost at will. It was embarrassing to me. I doubt I will say anything about it, but I will teach my son that it is not useful tactic beyond the league he is on now.

A well coached all-star team will pick off some off your runners. In all-stars we taught the kids to be very agressive. But it wasn't anything crazy. He had them taking large, aggressive turns at the bases to get fielders to take their eyes off the ball. Until the district semis it worked. The last couple of games against better competition the runners had to take smaller turns.