How Many Pitches?

[mudvnine]

I came to youth baseball after being a HS/JH pitching coach, so I usually have an advantage over other coaches in developing pitchers.

My rule has been " You have to throw at least 50% strikes in practice before you get to pitch in a game."

1. It sets clear criteria.
2. It's a sound rule (you'll get to 3 strikes before you get to 4 balls).
3. It puts some onus on the player to work and improve.

I've always been willing to work with everyone, even if it means they come to practice early or stay late.

With neophyte pitchers we start at 25 feet. Throw 50% strikes and we move back to 35 feet. Throw 50% strikes and we move back to 46 feet. Throw 50% strikes and you get some game innings. You don't get game innings simply because you request it. You get game innings because you've earned it. Everyone has the opportunity to earn game innings.

I've been rather successful doing this.

This is excellent advice, coaching philosophy, and a great way of definitively "qualifying" a young player's ability to take the mound, to keep everything "fair" for everyone.

+1

[scorekeeper]

This is excellent advice, coaching philosophy, and a great way of definitively "qualifying" a young player's ability to take the mound, to keep everything "fair" for everyone.

It is indeed. Unfortunately though, out of all the youth teams(HS and below), how many coaches have such a system in place?

[pcarnette]

With neophyte pitchers we start at 25 feet. Throw 50% strikes and we move back to 35 feet. Throw 50% strikes and we move back to 46 feet. Throw 50% strikes and you get some game innings. You don't get game innings simply because you request it. You get game innings because you've earned it. Everyone has the opportunity to earn game innings.

I like your system! How many pitches per ~10 ft. do you give them to hit 50% strikes?

[Kan-Man]

I came to youth baseball after being a HS/JH pitching coach, so I usually have an advantage over other coaches in developing pitchers.

My rule has been " You have to throw at least 50% strikes in practice before you get to pitch in a game."

1. It sets clear criteria.
2. It's a sound rule (you'll get to 3 strikes before you get to 4 balls).
3. It puts some onus on the player to work and improve.

I've always been willing to work with everyone, even if it means they come to practice early or stay late.

With neophyte pitchers we start at 25 feet. Throw 50% strikes and we move back to 35 feet. Throw 50% strikes and we move back to 46 feet. Throw 50% strikes and you get some game innings. You don't get game innings simply because you request it. You get game innings because you've earned it. Everyone has the opportunity to earn game innings.

I've been rather successful doing this.

I think this is a great idea and a great way to develop incrementally as opposed to having everyone stand on the rubber and chuck it. Here's my question, though - what if you only have a few kids who meet the 50% criteria? To go back to the OP, wouldn't you be forced to overuse your pitchers if you only had a handful that earned the right to take the mound?

[AdamInNY]

I think this is a great idea and a great way to develop incrementally as opposed to having everyone stand on the rubber and chuck it. Here's my question, though - what if you only have a few kids who meet the 50% criteria? To go back to the OP, wouldn't you be forced to overuse your pitchers if you only had a handful that earned the right to take the mound?

It's tough. Coaching minors this year (9-12). I've had lots of injuries. And while it's easy to say "develop pitching". What I find is this;


We have 2 games a week. Trying to get kids to come to practice even one time has proved challenging and of course the kids that come are already the pitchers. The other kids that come to practice, it's been very tough to get them "game ready" )I'm going to use CircleChange's definition of 50% strikes from 46' to pitch). Maybe it's just the group of kids I have this year, baseball is their last priority it seems.

I refuse to overuse (my pitch counts are shy of LL's recommendations, but I'm sure some here would still think high) the kids, and that has forced me to put in kids that really have no business on the mound. It's caused some painful innings. While I'm not wearing the kids out physically, I think I've probably been forced to wear on a few mentally.

Adam

[JCincy]

I know he probably shouldn't play pitcher and catcher in the same game.

If you child wants to catch, go for it. In my opinion it is the most demanding position in baseball. It seems to be the most needed as well. On a team of 15 kids, most will want to pitch. Some will want to try catching, but often give up. It's not easy to catch a ball with a bat flying through your line of sight and umpire breathing down your neck. Then you have make good throws back to your pitcher and to the bases in stealing leagues.

Can a kid pitch and catch? Yes! And play right field and 2nd base! And sit the bench and cheer on his team!

Pitch count? Depends on the kid, not so much the age. But a pitch count is a good place to start.

Pitching and Catching in the same game? I would almost always pitch a kid before I would ask him to catch. He would get an inning off in between and I would make sure he was feeling okay, before I asked him to catch. I would limit his playing time in those two positions. Typically a kid might get about 2/3rds of our league's pitch count and 1 inning behind the plate.

[tg643]

You don't want a kid pitching, having his arm cool down, then have to unleash a hard throw as a catcher. You don't want a kid wearing down his legs then pitching with less than stellar mechanics possibly affecting his arm. You don't have a kid catch and pitch in the same day.

[scorekeeper]

It's tough. Coaching minors this year (9-12). I've had lots of injuries. And while it's easy to say "develop pitching". What I find is this;

We have 2 games a week. Trying to get kids to come to practice even one time has proved challenging and of course the kids that come are already the pitchers. The other kids that come to practice, it's been very tough to get them "game ready" )I'm going to use CircleChange's definition of 50% strikes from 46' to pitch). Maybe it's just the group of kids I have this year, baseball is their last priority it seems.

I’m not saying MM is right or wrong about not allowing kids to pitch competitively until they’re 13, but what you’re describing seems to validate it.

I refuse to overuse (my pitch counts are shy of LL's recommendations, but I'm sure some here would still think high) the kids, and that has forced me to put in kids that really have no business on the mound. It's caused some painful innings. While I'm not wearing the kids out physically, I think I've probably been forced to wear on a few mentally.

You steadfastly holding to the philosophy of the kid’s health always has priority, is a desirable model, and one I think most coaches adhere to, until they get in some kind of crunch. But the goal should be to have ALL coaches adhere to it ALL the time.

Please be honest here.

You stated that you were “forced” to put kids on the mound who had no business there. Did the game grind to a complete stop, or did they somehow manage to get through an inning or so?

Do you honestly believe the mental stress you put on those few players will eventually chase them out of the game?

Which group was the most mentally tasked, the players or the adults?

[AdamInNY]

I’m not saying MM is right or wrong about not allowing kids to pitch competitively until they’re 13, but what you’re describing seems to validate it.



You steadfastly holding to the philosophy of the kid’s health always has priority, is a desirable model, and one I think most coaches adhere to, until they get in some kind of crunch. But the goal should be to have ALL coaches adhere to it ALL the time.

Please be honest here.

You stated that you were “forced” to put kids on the mound who had no business there. Did the game grind to a complete stop, or did they somehow manage to get through an inning or so?

Do you honestly believe the mental stress you put on those few players will eventually chase them out of the game?

Which group was the most mentally tasked, the players or the adults?

Sorry, should have been clear, the injuries I am referring to didn't come from pitching. All came from school yard accidents and in one case early in our practice, a kid while warming up from ~15' had a cyst explode in his shoulder.

In the case I am thinking of, the game did almost grind to a stop. My team (home team) was down 9-0 after 3 innings. New pitcher to start the 4th (disclaimer: It was my son). He pitched ~35 pitches in 4 and 5 and didn't allow a run. We were down 9-8 to start the 6th. I had the bottom of my order coming up in the bottom of the 6th. This was a Sunday and our next game was Weds. I decided to take the pitcher out so I could use him Weds because I didn't think we'd come back. It took us 3 pitchers and ~52 pitches to get through that top of the inning. We lost something like 17-8.

Do I think the 3 pitchers are ok? Yeah, for the most part, but definitely not ideal for them and not something I want to do on a regular basis. The parents were confused and I did explain my reasoning after the game.

I guess my point overall is simply that in rec ball it's tough to develop as many pitchers as some would thing. All Star and travel teams are a different story.

[scorekeeper]

… Do I think the 3 pitchers are ok? Yeah, for the most part, but definitely not ideal for them and not something I want to do on a regular basis. The parents were confused and I did explain my reasoning after the game.

2 things are worth mentioning.

1) No one would expect you to do it on an regular basis, nor should it be necessary.
2) Taking the time to explain what you were doing makes all the difference in the world! Communication is the easiest way to stop little things from growing into big ones.

I guess my point overall is simply that in rec ball it's tough to develop as many pitchers as some would thing. All Star and travel teams are a different story.

Let me tell you something you evidently don’t believe from the way you talk about All Star and Travel teams. Let’s get something straight right away. There should never be an issue of not having enough pitching on an AS team.

But don’t kid yourself about travel teams or any teams for that matter, and how hard it is to develop pitchers. If it were so easy, every HS team for sure would have at least 4 lights out kids, and another 2 or 3 that were pretty good too. But that’s so far from reality, its not even funny. People THINK teaching kids how to pitch is easy as pie, until they have to do it!

The problems begin with good old communication. Even the very best pitching gurus in the world don’t have a 100% success rate with developing pitchers.

[Willisf]

What about warm up pitches? Do they count?

[tg643]

What about warm up pitches? Do they count?

No. Only about 10-15 preparation warmup pitches are thrown at full speed. None between innings are thrown at full speed.

[AdamInNY]

2 things are worth mentioning.

Let me tell you something you evidently don’t believe from the way you talk about All Star and Travel teams. Let’s get something straight right away. There should never be an issue of not having enough pitching on an AS team.

But don’t kid yourself about travel teams or any teams for that matter, and how hard it is to develop pitchers. If it were so easy, every HS team for sure would have at least 4 lights out kids, and another 2 or 3 that were pretty good too. But that’s so far from reality, its not even funny. People THINK teaching kids how to pitch is easy as pie, until they have to do it!

The problems begin with good old communication. Even the very best pitching gurus in the world don’t have a 100% success rate with developing pitchers.

I can't speak to HS ball. My kids aren't at that level yet. but I think we're in agreement about AS/Travel. Basically every kids pitches. My younger son just joined a travel team, and if every kid didn't pitch, he wasn't joining.

My rec situation may or may not be unique, but the pitching rules are this: A kid can pitch 6 innings a week....period. And there are usually 2 games. The people that make the rosters think it's ok if you have 2 pitchers. I keep pitch count and go off that, I am constantly playing teams that pitch the same kids every game. I played a team Saturday that pitched a 10yo 5 innings against us. Kid had to go over 100 pitches.

[Ursa Major]

My rule has been " You have to throw at least 50% strikes in practice before you get to pitch in a game."

1. It sets clear criteria.
2. It's a sound rule (you'll get to 3 strikes before you get to 4 balls).
3. It puts some onus on the player to work and improve.

I've always been willing to work with everyone, even if it means they come to practice early or stay late.

With neophyte pitchers we start at 25 feet. Throw 50% strikes and we move back to 35 feet. Throw 50% strikes and we move back to 46 feet. Throw 50% strikes and you get some game innings. You don't get game innings simply because you request it. You get game innings because you've earned it. Everyone has the opportunity to earn game innings.

I agree with MudV and KanMan that this is a pretty good philosophy. Kids will improve over the course of the season if you're doing your job. Setting an objective goal for a kid will hasten that process.

When my son was 9, he had a manager who adhered to that philosophy. It took my son 12 of the fifteen weeks of the season to meet that standard, and he did, and was put in .... and walked the first four batters he faced and didn't pitch again for two years. But, that's okay, because he had that experience under his belt. I would be a little flexible on the 50%, because some kids will do better in games than practices (because their focus will be better) and some worse (because they tighten up). I would make it a rule that each kid gets at least two chances if he can meet the standard; sometimes they're just too nervous the first time out and do poorly.

Fast forward to last Sunday. I met that manager at a social function and pointed out that three of our high school's (and we're in a neighboring town from that league) seven pitchers (including my son) were on that very 9-10 y/o team, including a first team all-league selection this year. Two of them (the two who aren't my son) are top college prospects. Needless to say, the guy was pretty dang proud.

[CircleChange11]

I like your system! How many pitches per ~10 ft. do you give them to hit 50% strikes?

Heh Heh. If they can't throw 50% strikes from 10-feet, then we go to The Bozo Buckets.

Here's my question, though - what if you only have a few kids who meet the 50% criteria?

1. It should only take a few kids to get through a game.
2. There should be enough days between games to get the required rest.

Kids can practice on their own as well, which is sort of the whole point. It's not MY job to completely develop them. It's MY job to teach them basic mechanics and to provide a format/strategy. THEY need to develop on THEIR own as well. That includes, but may not be limited to, catch with dad/mom, pitching to a buddy, pitching to a wall, throwing a ball into a bucket, knocking a can/bottle of off a box, etc.

The point is to keep them seeking opportunities for improvement. Here's what I always tell my players, "We can't start over every time we practice." We have to get better and better each week, sometimes that requires your own time.

Trying to get kids to come to practice even one time has proved challenging and of course the kids that come are already the pitchers.

This is one of the reasons why the more serious, dedicated, etc players & coaches are moving to travel ball.

What about warm up pitches? Do they count?

No.

I explain warm-up pitches as being "free throw intensity". You're hitting spots, not throwing heat. Most kids I see are doing what I did all the way through college, go to the bullpen and throw your balls off for 40 pitches.

The last 10-15 pitches of a warm-up session should gradually increase to game intensity. You get "ready for the game" and then stop, because you're ready for the game.

I ask them "Is there a batter up there?" and if they answer is no, then I ask "Why are you throwing game pitches?"

I would be a little flexible on the 50%, because some kids will do better in games than practices

Of course. We should always remember what age group we're dealing with. Rather than be flexible on the "50%", I'd rather be flexible with the strike zone. Think hula hoop.

Kids always get multiple chances. I have kids throwing "bullpens" throughout the season. So, there's always "pitching practice" and not just "games, games, games". I find that A LOT of kids on my teams throw a ball, even a tennis ball, against the garage or school or somewhere else. Once they see other teammates pitch for the first time and do reasonably well, they are even more inspired.

This is the vast minority though. Generally, it's been the same kids year after year, league after league.

[leecemark]

--We had a game last night and a pitcher who was scheduled to go 2 innings didn't show. So we worked through the pitchers we had (I never use a kid more than 2 innings) and get to the last inning up by a run. My remaining pitcher choices were a kid who had been catching for us and had pitched the previous game or a 7 year old girl who had pitched one previous (and not so successfull) inning for us this season. We haven't won that many games and I really didn't want to see this one slip away, but I stuck to my pitching rules and gave little Emily the ball.
--She loaded the bases, but we didn't let the run in and got the win. The kids were happy and I'm sure it will be the high point of the season for Emily. Fun game and a good learning experience for all involved.

[CircleChange11]

It is surprising to me how many coaches throw kids in the game without preparation and the kids do poorly and the coaches say something like "Man, these kids can't pitch." What was the realistic expectation?

Do coaches really expect kids to be "game pitching ready" without the coach doing much to help them?

What exact service are these coaches providing? Almost everyone at the ballpark can fill out the lineup card and/or assign kids to a position.

Imagine if swim instructors "coached" like that. Just threw kids in the water and complained that most of them "can't swim".

[pcarnette]

Heh Heh. If they can't throw 50% strikes from 10-feet, then we go to The Bozo Buckets.

Sorry, you misunderstood my question. After their 10-15 warm-up pitches, how many pitches at 25, 35, and 46 ft. do you give them per interval to hit 50% strikes?

[CircleChange11]

Sorry, you misunderstood my question. After their 10-15 warm-up pitches, how many pitches at 25, 35, and 46 ft. do you give them per interval to hit 50% strikes?

At age 7-8, it was 20 pitches. If you threw 10+ strikes, then you "moved back" during the next session/practice.

At age 9-10 I'd have them throw between 30-40 bullpen pitches from the full distance (alternating every 20 pitches with another pitcher), 20 pitches while they're trying to "earn the next distance". If they're willing to stay late or come early, they can throw another 20 pitch session. It's just during an actual team practice (90 minutes, at most), you can't allocate half of the time (or more) to individual pitching. Seeing that there'll likely be 8 or more kids interested.

Edit: Next year for the 12U team I'm going to use a heavy mat that "hook" over the top of the fence with a painted strike zone (I'm building it myself, instead of buying one) for pitchers to "pitch to" (under supervision). So that will help greatly with getting bullpens accomplished without occupying the catchers all the time. Catchers need individual work as well, and play different positions. Nobody wants to come to practice and catch bullpen sessions all day.

[leecemark]

--I'm using an upturned wheelbarrow as a strike zone target for pitching practice without a catcher. They are 7-9 years old and 1/3 strikes is a much more realistic goal for most of them than 1/2. Only 3 of our 6 pitchers can manage 50% and they only do that on their better days. Of course that is actual strikes. Most opposing batters will chase balls out of the zone so the swinging strikes outnumber the called ones and keep the strike percentage at a reasonable number.

[CircleChange11]

--I'm using an upturned wheelbarrow as a strike zone target for pitching practice without a catcher. They are 7-9 years old and 1/3 strikes is a much more realistic goal for most of them than 1/2. Only 3 of our 6 pitchers can manage 50% and they only do that on their better days. Of course that is actual strikes. Most opposing batters will chase balls out of the zone so the swinging strikes outnumber the called ones and keep the strike percentage at a reasonable number.

It's an interesting situation as the strike zone actually gets BIGGER as the kids age and/or move up levels.

If the pitchers get in near the plate, many batters will swing.

What sucks is when coaches teach and train their batters to simply "not swing" to gain the immediate benefit of walking all the time. It doesn't develop the players at all and is simply easier than trying to teach them how to actually hit.

At 7/8, I prefer machine pitch. Lots of action, a clear standard, and consistent (generally) control.

We had kid pitch at 7-8 and the games were generally pretty good. The 9U all-stars had some absolutely wonderful games in tournaments last year. Walks generally only ruin the game in travel ball where leadoffs + short bases lead to too many "not batted in" runs.

Our 10U team average is 55% strikes. The highest is 68% and the lowest is 46%.

This may or may not be typical. The 68% by one of our pitchers is the highest I have seen from any pitcher that we have thrown or faced. He is not typical.

Last year on our 9-10 team we pitched 4 guys regularly and all 4 threw "more strikes than balls" and struck out more than they walked. The 5th and 6th kids that we pitched did not display the same control. We also pitched a couple of other kids that "earned it", and what we found is that batters "swung early and swung often" which was awesome as the number of BIP went way up. It's why I think the league is better off without having the dominant pitchers pitch so much. No one learns anything other than high fives.

[scorekeeper]

I read the posts in this thread and keep wondering if the problem isn’t a bit more basic than pitchers not being able to throw strikes. I’ve kinda zoomed in on the following statement to try to express what I’m thinking.

…With neophyte pitchers we start at 25 feet. Throw 50% strikes and we move back to 35 feet. Throw 50% strikes and we move back to 46 feet. Throw 50% strikes and you get some game innings. …

Let’s forget about pitching for just a second, and concentrate on the 25’ thing. Allow me to make some assumptions. If they’re incorrect, please let me know.

When you say “starting at 25’”, I’m assuming you don’t mean the kids are “rarin’ back and firin’ in the ol’ pill”. The reason I say that is, 25’ is awfully close for even a 30mph throw, which I’m assuming is a velocity just about every 9YO can attain. So, if my assumptions are correct, you’re talking about something more like playing catch in pre-game warm-ups.

If I’m substantially correct in my assumptions so far, press on. If not, disregard the rest of this and correct my erroneous assumptions.

I’ve always been a huge believer in fundamentals, with throwing ranking right up in importance. But I find it pretty amazing that its very seldom I see anyone take advantage of a “teaching moment” that happens at virtually every practice or game. I have yet to see where either of those things begins without at least some throwing warm-ups, where the kids pair off and begin loosening up their arm. It always starts out with the 2 kids from 15-25’ apart, with the throws gaining in intensity and distance as the player arms get loose, and typically ends with at least a couple throws being close to the max distance possible.

But how many times does a coach ever use that time to “correct” kids who aren’t doing it correctly? More often than not, the coaches are doing much more “important” things like making lineups or prepping the field, and I suppose in many cases using it as a chance to “catch up” on the latest gossip, or to renew acquaintances.

Here’s the reason this has always been a sticking point with me. I played catch with my boy from the time he could throw a ball. When he was very small, of course it was dad crawling around the living room, chasing and retrieving wayward missiles, and taking the blame for knocked over or even broken items, so mom wouldn’t blame the boy.

But there came a day, I think he was about 4, when we were out in the driveway, me on my chair, and he winding up and trying to throw strikes like those guys we were spending entirely too much time watching on TV. He wound up in one of those exaggerated kiddy windups, then heaved the ball about 5’ to my left, past the corner of the garage, and down the side of it past the woodpile.

It was time. I called him over and told him nicely that dad had a lot of trouble walking, so it was time he had to start chasing balls I couldn’t grab. He said he understood and took off running to grab that ball. When he came back, he wound up and chucked one about 5’ over my head that clanged off the garage door. When It rolled back fairly close to me, but I’d have had to get out of the chair to grab, I just sat there and looked at it. He didn’t hesitate long, then came and got the ball.

Needless to say, it wasn’t very long before he got the idea, and like all kids, throwing was a lot more fun than chasing, and that began something that endured to the rest of his “career”. Not being a sadist, I taught him the proper way to play catch. Focus on your partner’s chest or wherever you wanted to throw the ball, step right at him/her, throw the ball, then let your arm follow through. It was pretty darn simple, and worked very well.

But now I’m getting the feeling that pretty much the same thing I always believed would work, and did, has turned into some kind of pitching thing that determines whether or not a kid is allowed to toe the rubber. I believe it will work, and from what I’m reading does, but I’m still wonderin’ why it isn’t put into effect for just playing catch, rather than only when trying to find a kid “worthy” of being allowed to pitch.

[CircleChange11]

I read the posts in this thread and keep wondering if the problem isn’t a bit more basic than pitchers not being able to throw strikes. I’ve kinda zoomed in on the following statement to try to express what I’m thinking.



Let’s forget about pitching for just a second, and concentrate on the 25’ thing. Allow me to make some assumptions. If they’re incorrect, please let me know.

When you say “starting at 25’”, I’m assuming you don’t mean the kids are “rarin’ back and firin’ in the ol’ pill”. The reason I say that is, 25’ is awfully close for even a 30mph throw, which I’m assuming is a velocity just about every 9YO can attain. So, if my assumptions are correct, you’re talking about something more like playing catch in pre-game warm-ups.

If I’m substantially correct in my assumptions so far, press on. If not, disregard the rest of this and correct my erroneous assumptions.

I’ve always been a huge believer in fundamentals, with throwing ranking right up in importance. But I find it pretty amazing that its very seldom I see anyone take advantage of a “teaching moment” that happens at virtually every practice or game. I have yet to see where either of those things begins without at least some throwing warm-ups, where the kids pair off and begin loosening up their arm. It always starts out with the 2 kids from 15-25’ apart, with the throws gaining in intensity and distance as the player arms get loose, and typically ends with at least a couple throws being close to the max distance possible.

But how many times does a coach ever use that time to “correct” kids who aren’t doing it correctly? More often than not, the coaches are doing much more “important” things like making lineups or prepping the field, and I suppose in many cases using it as a chance to “catch up” on the latest gossip, or to renew acquaintances.

Here’s the reason this has always been a sticking point with me. I played catch with my boy from the time he could throw a ball. When he was very small, of course it was dad crawling around the living room, chasing and retrieving wayward missiles, and taking the blame for knocked over or even broken items, so mom wouldn’t blame the boy.

But there came a day, I think he was about 4, when we were out in the driveway, me on my chair, and he winding up and trying to throw strikes like those guys we were spending entirely too much time watching on TV. He wound up in one of those exaggerated kiddy windups, then heaved the ball about 5’ to my left, past the corner of the garage, and down the side of it past the woodpile.

It was time. I called him over and told him nicely that dad had a lot of trouble walking, so it was time he had to start chasing balls I couldn’t grab. He said he understood and took off running to grab that ball. When he came back, he wound up and chucked one about 5’ over my head that clanged off the garage door. When It rolled back fairly close to me, but I’d have had to get out of the chair to grab, I just sat there and looked at it. He didn’t hesitate long, then came and got the ball.

Needless to say, it wasn’t very long before he got the idea, and like all kids, throwing was a lot more fun than chasing, and that began something that endured to the rest of his “career”. Not being a sadist, I taught him the proper way to play catch. Focus on your partner’s chest or wherever you wanted to throw the ball, step right at him/her, throw the ball, then let your arm follow through. It was pretty darn simple, and worked very well.

But now I’m getting the feeling that pretty much the same thing I always believed would work, and did, has turned into some kind of pitching thing that determines whether or not a kid is allowed to toe the rubber. I believe it will work, and from what I’m reading does, but I’m still wonderin’ why it isn’t put into effect for just playing catch, rather than only when trying to find a kid “worthy” of being allowed to pitch.

9yo don;t usually start out at 25 feet. If you struggle playing catch, then we practice playing catch. There are times, at the beginning of practice, where I simply play catch with 2 of our guys that needs "extra catch". They don;t request to pitch and if they did, I'd say "We'll get really good at pitch and catch first, then we'll work on pitching".

Also, I'm usually the catcher. It's most always before/after practice, when someone is wanting/needing some extra attention. Team time is team time. We have a practice schedule of things the team needs to work on, with individual group instruction being part of that.

As for the "you get your own overthrows" stuff ... that works great until I uncork one and he gives me "the look".

[mudvnine]

9yo don;t usually start out at 25 feet. If you struggle playing catch, then we practice playing catch. There are times, at the beginning of practice, where I simply play catch with 2 of our guys that needs "extra catch". They don;t request to pitch and if they did, I'd say "We'll get really good at pitch and catch first, then we'll work on pitching".

Also, I'm usually the catcher. It's most always before/after practice, when someone is wanting/needing some extra attention. Team time is team time. We have a practice schedule of things the team needs to work on, with individual group instruction being part of that.

As for the "you get your own overthrows" stuff ... that works great until I uncork one and he gives me "the look".

The bold is so true.

Hey "Circle", my apologies for some of the stuff I wrote in replies to you earlier. You've recently written some pretty darn good posts here and in other threads, and I have a whole new understanding, opinion, and respect of your experience, ability, and coaching level.

While we may not (OK, probable won't) agree on everything, I've got new impression of where you're coming from and appreciate your participation here. I look forward to learning and picking up some more pointers from you.

All the best,
mud -

[scorekeeper]

9yo don;t usually start out at 25 feet. If you struggle playing catch, then we practice playing catch. There are times, at the beginning of practice, where I simply play catch with 2 of our guys that needs "extra catch". They don;t request to pitch and if they did, I'd say "We'll get really good at pitch and catch first, then we'll work on pitching".

Also, I'm usually the catcher. It's most always before/after practice, when someone is wanting/needing some extra attention. Team time is team time. We have a practice schedule of things the team needs to work on, with individual group instruction being part of that.

My point wasn’t to say anyone was right or wrong in their approach. Heck, any approach aimed a helping the kids improve is a great one as far as I’m concerned. What I was trying to get at, was that to me the entire “organized” baseball thing tries to go too far too fast, without concentrating on the most fundamental part of the game there is, throwing the ball at a target, and at least getting close to if not hitting it.

From what I remember about baseball at the earliest levels is, there’s more concentration on how to wear a “uniform”, what equipment to buy, how to act, where to stand, when to stand there, and how to stand once you get there, and other such things as protocol and tradition requires, than to simply throw a ball correctly. IOW, there’s much more “team” rigmarole that goes on than is at all necessary for playing the game.

I guess my childhood experiences with the game give me a skewed look to the entire thing. You learn how to throw the ball where you want when you stand on one side of a 1” gravel driveway and throw a ball at the side of a brick house on the other side of the driveway, trying to keep the ball between 2 windows. Its tough enough to catch the ball once it bounces off the gravel, but if it doesn’t hit the wall in the right place, its gonna come off at an angle that makes you end up chasing it. Maybe we need a few more brick walls at ball fields.

As for the "you get your own overthrows" stuff ... that works great until I uncork one and he gives me "the look".

There’s nothing at all wrong with “the look”, In fact, it’s a great opportunity to let them know that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. It re-enforces how important it is to make good throws. It should also make the “teacher” think about how easy it is to make a throwing mistake, even for someone with decades of experience.