who do you think it will be?
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who do you think it will be?
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arod. he is already ahead of jeter and he is younger
I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and can’t run, most of the time he’s clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. – Dusty Baker.
Circle of Bosses
but A-rod gets hurt more now
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Younger has little to do with it, it's only a year anyway. Jeter is in much better condition which will lead to him getting hurt less. Plus, A-Rod is aging terrible. He's in serious decline.Originally Posted by dominik
Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!
Circle of Bosses
except for that 2 homer game he had a few days ago
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He's still a better power hitter than Jeter, but Jeter is better now at everything else. :Pexcept for that 2 homer game he had a few days ago
Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!
Circle of Bosses
even at playing shortstop? lol
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Jeter stood the same at SS, if anything he has miraculously gotten better in his old age. A-Rod is so broken down and hasn't played SS in so long I have no doubt in my mind Jeter would be better with the glove. Probably a lot better.
Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!
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Jeter is declining just as much as A-Rod. Even with his terrible decline as someone said, ARod's OPS is around 118 which is about equal to Jeter's career average. Jeter has posted back to back <100 OPS+ season thus far. Arod at his very worst is equivalent to Jeter's career average. One cannot take what Jeter did this March & April and taking that as a norm; it isn't. His BABIP was .413 during that time; he was incredibly lucky. As for Jeter's defense, I don't see how he has improved. I watch the games, his already microscopic range is getting even less and he already has enough negative dWar already, on pace to have one of his worst defensive seasons ever.
Last edited by Joltin' Joe; 05-27-2012 at 03:43 AM.
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That couldn't be more wrong. What can A-Rod do today that Jeter can't besides hit a long ball? Jeter is also doing just fine with his glove, and is a lot better than 10 years ago.
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I'm not sure why you are telling me I couldn't be more wrong.
You are basing everything on what Jeter did in March/April of this year. I posted his extraordinary BABIP during that stretch which indicates he was incredibly lucky, not incredibly good. His BA regressing toward the mean and his BABIP falling down towards reality is a clear indication of this.
You ask "What can A-Rod do today that Jeter can't besides hit a long ball? " I think you have answered your own question. If you have two hitters that have similar BA but one hits the long ball, who are you going to pick. The amount of power ARod has over Jeter makes him a far more valuable hitter.
ARod and Jeter are both declining as hitters at similar rates. That being said, since ARod was the far superior hitter to begin with, even his diminished OPS+ is still about the same as Jeter's career average.
As for his glove, I don't see it. He has no range to speak of. He is surehanded and always makes the routine plays, no doubt about that...but he is a SS, not a 1Bman. A lot more is expected out of a SS. Even dWAR indicates Jeter is costing us games with his limited range. Can you give me examples of where you see Jeter's defense has improved?
Circle of Bosses
well Jeter is hitting .342 so far this season so it doesn't look to me like he's declining
The Grand Poobah of Sweat
Yeah, but wasn't he hitting .400 a couple of weeks ago? He had a super hot start and has been cooling off lately.
I think Jeter has made some adjustments and could easily see him hitting over .300 this season, but I really doubt he's going to end up around .340. More power to him if he does it.
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Jesus, he's not Ted Williams, he wasn't going to hit .400. What does he have to do to get you guys off his back? A lot of teams would love to have a .300 hitting shortstop with Jeter's leadership qualities.
"Can I throw harder than Joe Wood? Listen my friend, no man alive can throw harder than Smoky Joe Wood". - Walter Johnson, 1912 interview
The Grand Poobah of Sweat
I have noticed that many uninformed fans think that Splinter hit .400 as an old man, but he ended up at .388 in his golden season...he was quoted many times as saying he could have hit .400 if he still had the speed of his younger self at that point.
I can't imagine why you think I'm getting on Jeter's back when I suggest that he could hit .300+ this season and basically make the same point as you about taking early season batting averages too seriously. I suppose that I'm blaspheming when I post that I don't think he'll get close to Rose's hit record.
A gametime decision
Dude (if I may call you Dude), you made the point that Jeter was hitting .400 a couple of weeks ago, and now he isn't. A lot of guys were probably hitting .400 a couple of weeks ago. Anyway, sorry if I misinterpreted your post. There's so much Jeter hate on this board, I thought you were one of them.
BTW, Williams was right, in 1957 when he hit .388 at age 38, he missed .400 by five hits. He was never especially fleet-footed, a faster man might well have had five infield hits over the course of the season.
And no, I don't think Jeter will get close to Rose or Cobb's hit totals, he doesn't have enough time.
"Can I throw harder than Joe Wood? Listen my friend, no man alive can throw harder than Smoky Joe Wood". - Walter Johnson, 1912 interview
A gametime decision
Dude (if I may call you Dude), you made the point that Jeter was hitting .400 a couple of weeks ago, and now he isn't. A lot of guys were probably hitting .400 a couple of weeks ago. Anyway, sorry if I misinterpreted your post. There's so much Jeter hate on this board, I thought you were one of them.
BTW, Williams was right, in 1957 when he hit .388 at age 38, he missed .400 by five hits. He was never especially fleet-footed, a faster man might well have had five infield hits over the course of the season.
And no, I don't think Jeter will get close to Rose or Cobb's hit totals, he doesn't have enough time.
"Can I throw harder than Joe Wood? Listen my friend, no man alive can throw harder than Smoky Joe Wood". - Walter Johnson, 1912 interview
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It makes me sick to my stomach that people compare Jeter to A-rod. Jeter is a VASTLY inferior player who at his very best wasn't good enough to lick the tar off A-rod cleats
Circle of Bosses
how come Jeter hits for a higher average and has more rings?
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If you're not wrong, then tell me where A-Rod is better besides home runs. I'm not just basing it off the first two moths either. How about for the past year? The only place Jeter has declined is in his legs, as I don't see him getting to 15 steals this year. Now with the glove, compare his defensive stats from 2008 on to earlier in his career. They should be worse, but they are not. He's good for his age at SS.I'm not sure why you are telling me I couldn't be more wrong.
You are basing everything on what Jeter did in March/April of this year. I posted his extraordinary BABIP during that stretch which indicates he was incredibly lucky, not incredibly good. His BA regressing toward the mean and his BABIP falling down towards reality is a clear indication of this.
You ask "What can A-Rod do today that Jeter can't besides hit a long ball? " I think you have answered your own question. If you have two hitters that have similar BA but one hits the long ball, who are you going to pick. The amount of power ARod has over Jeter makes him a far more valuable hitter.
ARod and Jeter are both declining as hitters at similar rates. That being said, since ARod was the far superior hitter to begin with, even his diminished OPS+ is still about the same as Jeter's career average.
As for his glove, I don't see it. He has no range to speak of. He is surehanded and always makes the routine plays, no doubt about that...but he is a SS, not a 1Bman. A lot more is expected out of a SS. Even dWAR indicates Jeter is costing us games with his limited range. Can you give me examples of where you see Jeter's defense has improved?
Was A-Rod the far superior hitter to begin with? Yeah, being on steroids since as early as a teenager gave him a huge boost. Reverse their PED use and their numbers would dramatically be changed.
Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!
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Ted's own words.
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Don't forget the gold gloves and intangibles.
A gametime decision
Jeter has more rings because he was on the Yankees longer. Jorge Posada has more rings than A-Rod too, was he a better player?
I'm a Jeter fan, A-Rod, not so much, but this is pretty obvious, even to me.
"Can I throw harder than Joe Wood? Listen my friend, no man alive can throw harder than Smoky Joe Wood". - Walter Johnson, 1912 interview
The Grand Poobah of Sweat
I would have loved for Jeter to be on the Bosox for his career. I probably would have taken Nomah by a hair comparing their peak seasons, but he flamed out so young and Derek is still out there playing. There are some things about Jeter's style that irk me at times, but the guy is a ballplayer through and through and generally handles himself with class and admirable reserve.
As far as the original question, ARod is younger than Jeter and about 50 runs ahead. Arod also seems more likely to just plain break down physically, but I don't see him retiring early and the Yanks are going to have to pay him unless he can be certified as physically unfit to play and the contract is covered by insurance, as happened with Albert Belle...ARod will come out ahead because the Yanks will have to play him for several more years (no matter how bad he is) due to that huge contract.
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Looking back at this thread, Jeter is 30 runs behind A-Rod. With A-Rod out until July at the earliest, Jeter will pass him by late Spring, barring injury. So who retires with more? All depends how long Jeter wants to play. I hope he sticks around for 4,000, but no one knows.
Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!
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