RA Dickey

**Paulypal** · 06-14-2012, 05:33 AM

Yeah I know what the record book says.....that Johan has the only Mets no hitter. Well technically thats true I guess but for anyone that has watched the Mets they know it isnt. There are 3 no no's. Here you go -

1) September 7th 1984 Dwight Gooden vs the Cubs. Ray Knight makes an error in the 5th inning - called a hit -- Doc never gives up another hit.
2) June 1st 2012 - Johan vs the Cards
3) June 13th 2012 - Dickey vs the Rays. Coincidentally the 3rd basemen actually costs another no hitter. Clearly an error by Wright. Never in a million years did he need to barehand the ball.

Funny thing is the only guy that gave up a hit was credited with a no hitter.

Maybe because I was only 20 at the time, maybe because it was Doc, but whatever the reason Dwight Gooden threw the first no hitter in my heart.

http://www.ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=3664

**milladrive** · 06-14-2012, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Chuck The Mets Fan!

The Mets to appeal official scoring of Wright's first inning flub. Their should have been two perfect games yesterday, this is the baseball gods exacting revenge for Johan's "no-hitter". I doubt they change the ruling on the play.

Is that true? I too doubt they'll change the scoring, but it's nice to know they're at least appealing. From the minute the ball tripped off his hand, before even thinking of the next 25 outs, I thought that should've been called an error.

Originally Posted by PVNICK

Great game by Dickey. Of course I had to suffer thru hearing on the radio "the true test will be this weekend (when he faces the Yankees)". Aaargh

I'll bet most of the people saying that were the typical arrogant Yankee fans, who think their team is the Aberdeen Proving Grounds for all other teams to strive to beat. Well, I hope they're aware, Dickey doesn't give a Ray's ass what team he faces. I predict, although he may not hold them scoreless, he'll dominate them like he does virtually every other team.

**Shea Knight** · 06-14-2012, 08:43 AM

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.T9oEzLVfEg0

Collins is appealing the ruling, apparently, to see if they can change it to an error, thus giving Dickey the no-no.

How do you feel about this, folks?

Me?

I'm of two minds:

On the one hand, no-hitters shouldn't be given retroactively, what's done is done...we got a bit of a gift with Johan, and Dickey got a bit robbed, that's how the game goes...

On the other, if they do change it, I won't be upset at all, really...if it'd been our FIRST no-no, and we got it that way, I'd say no, you don't want to get your first no-hitter that way, but since we have our first, (mostly) clean no-hitter, pitched at home and all, if Collins wants t take that shot, why not.

In any case, the Santana/Dickey/Niese threesome (Santana/Dickey obviously both pitching well, and I think Niese is really starting to hit his stride as well) has to keep going deep in games like this, with the bullpen the way it is, we CANNOT trust the pen whatsoever...and yet, that could very well bite us if we are, somehow, still in the hunt for WC #1 or 2 in August...

**Joe Rigatoni** · 06-14-2012, 08:46 AM

Milladrive and I and some friends of ours that we graduated high school with are having a celebratory dinner for Santana's no-hitter on Saturday July 28.I heard the Mets are appealing Dickey's one-hitter.
Hey milladrive,if the Mets win the appeal should we have two celebratory dinners?(lol).If so,I propose the second
celebratory dinner should be on Saturday August 18 when the Mets are on the road.(lol).Just a thought.

**Paulypal** · 06-14-2012, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Shea Knight

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.T9oEzLVfEg0

Collins is appealing the ruling, apparently, to see if they can change it to an error, thus giving Dickey the no-no.

How do you feel about this, folks?

Me?

I'm of two minds:

On the one hand, no-hitters shouldn't be given retroactively, what's done is done...we got a bit of a gift with Johan, and Dickey got a bit robbed, that's how the game goes...

On the other, if they do change it, I won't be upset at all, really...if it'd been our FIRST no-no, and we got it that way, I'd say no, you don't want to get your first no-hitter that way, but since we have our first, (mostly) clean no-hitter, pitched at home and all, if Collins wants t take that shot, why not.

In any case, the Santana/Dickey/Niese threesome (Santana/Dickey obviously both pitching well, and I think Niese is really starting to hit his stride as well) has to keep going deep in games like this, with the bullpen the way it is, we CANNOT trust the pen whatsoever...and yet, that could very well bite us if we are, somehow, still in the hunt for WC #1 or 2 in August...

As much as would like to see RA get credited with a no no - if you get it that way its somehow tainted. You want it on the field, you dont want it via appeal. My opinion.

If they do that they open up a can of worms that probably isnt worth it. What about Galarraga in 2010 - pitched a perfect game and was robbed on a hideous call by the ump?

**theAmazingMet** · 06-14-2012, 09:01 AM

Imagine he throws a no hitter vs the yank$? That would more than make up for the sweep last weekend.

**Shea Knight** · 06-14-2012, 09:02 AM

10-1, best record in the NL, and tied for most wins in MLB...

4th in the NL in strikeouts with 90...

3rd in the NL in ERA with a 2.20 line...

2nd in the NL in WHIP with a fantastic 0.84...

Just set the Mets' record for consecutive scoreless innings...

And just had a *one-hitter to boot...

Think he has a shot?

I think he does, but ONLY if the Mets make the playoffs, as if they do, he'll score some big points in that "Means the Most to His Team" category, because without R.A. Dickey, the Mets aren't even close to being close to being in this at all.

**Chuck The Mets Fan!** · 06-14-2012, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Paulypal

As much as would like to see RA get credited with a no no - if you get it that way its somehow tainted. You want it on the field, you dont want it via appeal. My opinion.

If they do that they open up a can of worms that probably isnt worth it. What about Galarraga in 2010 - pitched a perfect game and was robbed on a hideous call by the ump?

Yes, but these are two different entities. One was due to a poor umpiring call and the other the official scorer's ruling. The official scorer's ruling can be changed, like you mentioned Pauly, let the sleeping dog lie, don't open up a can of worms that will be calling for many official scorers to change their rulings. We already know that should have been a no-hitter just like how Santana's game should not have been a no-hitter, but ruling stands. But what kills me is that it COULD HAVE been a potentially had been a "Perfect Game" and the first of two in the same evening!

And yes like our buddy Milladrive, the Ray Knight fumbling and bumbling Keith Moreland's "squib" down the third base line was far more blatantly not a hit, yet that ruling stands. I know there has been many other clubs that have been in similar gripes, but I don't care about those other clubs but if Dickey's game becomes a no-hitter upon review be prepared for every no-hitter to have some point of official scoring reviewed by the MLB

**Joe Rigatoni** · 06-14-2012, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Chuck The Mets Fan!

Yes, but these are two different entities. One was due to a poor umpiring call and the other the official scorer's ruling. The official scorer's ruling can be changed, like you mentioned Pauly, let the sleeping dog lie, don't open up a can of worms that will be calling for many official scorers to change their rulings. We already know that should have been a no-hitter just like how Santana's game should not have been a no-hitter, but ruling stands. But what kills me is that it COULD HAVE been a potentially had been a "Perfect Game" and the first of two in the same evening!

And yes like our buddy Milladrive, the Ray Knight fumbling and bumbling Keith Moreland's "squib" down the third base line was far more blatantly not a hit, yet that ruling stands. I know there has been many other clubs that have been in similar gripes, but I don't care about those other clubs but if Dickey's game becomes a no-hitter upon review be prepared for every no-hitter to have some point of official scoring reviewed by the MLB

As far as Santana's no-hitter goes since Beltran's shot was called foul and then he eventually grounded out to third
since Beltran grounded out and didn't get a hit if it's not acknowleged as a no-hitter then what is it? As far as the
Galarraga perfect game bid goes since the ump's blown call resulted in a runner standing on first base unfortunately
it can't be overturned to a perfect game because what about that runner standing on first base.And official scorings
have been overturned in the past especially from a hit to an error and vica-versa.So as an eternal optimist why not
hope the Mets win the appeal on the Dickey one-hitter.So as I mentioned in a previous post earlier on this thread that
milladrive and I and some friends of ours from high school are having a celebratory dinner for
Santana's no-hitter on Saturday July 28.So milladrive,as I mentioned before if the Mets win the appeal why not have a
second celebratory dinner on Saturday August 18 when the Mets are on the road.Just a thought.

**Strawman** · 06-14-2012, 10:07 AM

The appeal has no chance - I'd say 9 out of 10 official scorers make the same call on that play. Yeah a marginal hit no doubt - and Wright coulda make the play - but would have been a very tough error.

**Strawman** · 06-14-2012, 10:10 AM

All depends on the competition, methinks. Yeah, if you play out his stats he'd be deserving and in the mix.

**milladrive** · 06-14-2012, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Joe Rigatoni

So milladrive,as I mentioned before if the Mets win the appeal why not have a
second celebratory dinner on Saturday August 18 when the Mets are on the road.Just a thought.

I'd certainly not be against it. You know me, I look forward to any excuse to get together with the old gang.

**milladrive** · 06-14-2012, 10:36 AM

As per Cowtipper's post in Current Events, R.A. is currently #1 according to ESPN's Cy Predictor.

**Paulypal** · 06-14-2012, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Shea Knight

10-1, best record in the NL, and tied for most wins in MLB...

4th in the NL in strikeouts with 90...

3rd in the NL in ERA with a 2.20 line...

2nd in the NL in WHIP with a fantastic 0.84...

Just set the Mets' record for consecutive scoreless innings...

And just had a *one-hitter to boot...

Think he has a shot?

I think he does, but ONLY if the Mets make the playoffs, as if they do, he'll score some big points in that "Means the Most to His Team" category, because without R.A. Dickey, the Mets aren't even close to being close to being in this at all.

Yes I think he has a shot.

I also dont think team placement matters for the Cy as much as the MVP does, so this is not really team placement dependant in my opinion. In my time of following baseball I dont remember a knuckeballer being on a roll like this. For the most part you get a start that looks like Cy Young and then one that looks like Egg Foo Young in the next start. RA is dominating right now.

He also throws it 10 MPH faster than most have on average. Its pretty amazing to watch.

If you have never seen a knuckleball up close being pitched to you -- its a sight to behold. On TV it looks like a watermelon, but in the batter box its crazy.

**Brooklyn** · 06-14-2012, 11:39 AM

It is early, but he is clearly in the conversation at this point in the season.

He is projected to go 26-3 with a 0.94 WHIP and a 2.20 ERA. If he hits those numbers, he'll get the Cy Young. Assuming he doesn't, it will depend on what they look like and what everyone else does. Matt Cain, Lance Lynn, Brandon Beachy, Steven Strasburg and Gio Gonzalez, among others, are all off to great starts as well. a lot of time left to see how they all wind up.

Here is an interesting fact. Pull out Dickey's 1 loss, and here is his line:

12 starts, all quality starts, 10-0, 1.47 ERA, 0.88 WHIP

Of course, you can't pull that one start out, but shows how dominating he has really been

**theAmazingMet** · 06-14-2012, 03:53 PM

Can we get another RA Dickey thread? not sure that three are enough to measure his greatness

**MattD1972** · 06-15-2012, 03:31 AM

Chances are that all of us have scored a game at some point in our lives at some level. The game Wednesday night was a scorer's decision, not an umpire's call like with Santana's no-hitter, Gallaraga's perfect game, or even back to the '85 World Series. The scorer is a bit more prone to pressure from outside forces (are they still hired by the home team? in MLB?) and is a lot more fallible than we think. They also have the luxury of going back and re-evaluating things to overturn calls if needed. For others (usually Mets haters at this point) to drag Santana or Gallaraga into the discussion is not a valid comparison.
I did not watch the game live. i finally saw a replay last night and my jaw hit the floor with what I saw.
In my mind, if a fielder gets a hand/glove on the ball and can't even try to complete the play, it's an error. Wright had the ball in his hand, and dropped it. In my limited experience, that's an error.....and that's a no-hitter.
My gut feeling is that it won't be overturned. The rightness of it is plain: who cares who is running on the bases, it is a dropped ball. But if MLB overturns this call, they will face an absolute Crap-Storm from every team wanting something fixed (as you can see above, I'm convinced that STL fans were less whining about Santana than wanting '85 back). Either Torre is too cowardly to do this, or Bud will force the issue to force instant replay. Kinda sad that RA's the pawn in this game, as he's moved past the point of "should make the all-star game" to "should start the all star-game".

**Paulypal** · 06-15-2012, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by MattD1972

Chances are that all of us have scored a game at some point in our lives at some level. The game Wednesday night was a scorer's decision, not an umpire's call like with Santana's no-hitter, Gallaraga's perfect game, or even back to the '85 World Series. The scorer is a bit more prone to pressure from outside forces (are they still hired by the home team? in MLB?) and is a lot more fallible than we think. They also have the luxury of going back and re-evaluating things to overturn calls if needed. For others (usually Mets haters at this point) to drag Santana or Gallaraga into the discussion is not a valid comparison.
I did not watch the game live. i finally saw a replay last night and my jaw hit the floor with what I saw.
In my mind, if a fielder gets a hand/glove on the ball and can't even try to complete the play, it's an error. Wright had the ball in his hand, and dropped it. In my limited experience, that's an error.....and that's a no-hitter.
My gut feeling is that it won't be overturned. The rightness of it is plain: who cares who is running on the bases, it is a dropped ball. But if MLB overturns this call, they will face an absolute Crap-Storm from every team wanting something fixed (as you can see above, I'm convinced that STL fans were less whining about Santana than wanting '85 back). Either Torre is too cowardly to do this, or Bud will force the issue to force instant replay. Kinda sad that RA's the pawn in this game, as he's moved past the point of "should make the all-star game" to "should start the all star-game".

What do you mean you dont care who is running? That has to be taken into consideration. Now I agree with you that it was an error, but the baserunner has every bit to do with the scoring. First of all it affects how the defender plays the ball. Do you think Wright tries to barehand the ball if Bengie Molina is running? He tried to barehand the ball because of who was running -- he didnt need to in my opinion, but thats why he did it.

**Strawman** · 06-15-2012, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by Paulypal

What do you mean you dont care who is running? That has to be taken into consideration. Now I agree with you that it was an error, but the baserunner has every bit to do with the scoring. First of all it affects how the defender plays the ball. Do you think Wright tries to barehand the ball if Bengie Molina is running? He tried to barehand the ball because of who was running -- he didnt need to in my opinion, but thats why he did it.

Yep - it was the speed of the runner. I'm not sure Wright gets him if he gloves it and throws to be honest. That's why 9/10 scorers will award a hit on that play every time. No way it's over-turned - and in fairness, it shouldn't be over-turned.

**milladrive** · 06-15-2012, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by MattD1972

Chances are that all of us have scored a game at some point in our lives at some level. The game Wednesday night was a scorer's decision, not an umpire's call like with Santana's no-hitter, Gallaraga's perfect game, or even back to the '85 World Series. The scorer is a bit more prone to pressure from outside forces (are they still hired by the home team? in MLB?) and is a lot more fallible than we think. They also have the luxury of going back and re-evaluating things to overturn calls if needed. For others (usually Mets haters at this point) to drag Santana or Gallaraga into the discussion is not a valid comparison.
I did not watch the game live. i finally saw a replay last night and my jaw hit the floor with what I saw.
In my mind, if a fielder gets a hand/glove on the ball and can't even try to complete the play, it's an error. Wright had the ball in his hand, and dropped it. In my limited experience, that's an error.....and that's a no-hitter.
My gut feeling is that it won't be overturned. The rightness of it is plain: who cares who is running on the bases, it is a dropped ball. But if MLB overturns this call, they will face an absolute Crap-Storm from every team wanting something fixed (as you can see above, I'm convinced that STL fans were less whining about Santana than wanting '85 back). Either Torre is too cowardly to do this, or Bud will force the issue to force instant replay. Kinda sad that RA's the pawn in this game, as he's moved past the point of "should make the all-star game" to "should start the all star-game".

Actually, for a long time, it was solely up to the official scorer's discretion to go back and make the decision. These days (I forget when it began), the scoring appeal must be brought in front of a committee that makes the decision.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I too felt it was an error at the time of the play, without even thinking about the next 25 outs. But you're right. If they were to overturn the call now, the fit would hit the shan. That's why not only do I feel they shouldn't reverse the call, but, as with you, my instinct says there's a 99.999% chance it won't be, nor, as Strawman said, should it be.

Originally Posted by Paulypal

What do you mean you dont care who is running? That has to be taken into consideration. Now I agree with you that it was an error, but the baserunner has every bit to do with the scoring. First of all it affects how the defender plays the ball. Do you think Wright tries to barehand the ball if Bengie Molina is running? He tried to barehand the ball because of who was running -- he didnt need to in my opinion, but thats why he did it.

I tend to agree with that post, especially the highlighted parts.

**theAmazingMet** · 06-15-2012, 04:45 PM

The Mets appeal of the lone hit was denied, which we all knew would happen. Shoot, Wright coulda punted the ball into the backstop and they wouldn't have overturned the call.

**chicagowhitesox1173** · 06-15-2012, 05:05 PM

It's the right call, I woulda liked to see him get a no-hitter but he even said it woulda been a cheap one. He didn't have to face the pressure of a real no-hitter since the hit occured in the first inning.

**milladrive** · 06-16-2012, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1173

It's the right call, I woulda liked to see him get a no-hitter but he even said it woulda been a cheap one. He didn't have to face the pressure of a real no-hitter since the hit occured in the first inning.

Agreed. Even R.A. said the asterisk would've been bigger than the no-hitter itself. Frankly, I'm glad Torre made the right decision.

**Gary Dunaier** · 06-16-2012, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by milladrive

Agreed. Even R.A. said the asterisk would've been bigger than the no-hitter itself.

Not necessarily. Depends on the point size used.

No-Hitters Thrown By The New York Mets
June 1, 2012 - Johan Santana
June 13, 2012 - R.A. Dickey*

versus

No-Hitters Thrown By The New York Mets
June 1, 2012 - Johan Santana
June 13, 2012 - R.A. Dickey*